Hey guys I was thinking about the european aux. port system and how that would allow major porting without having to run open aux ports to maintain a more streetable car. Has anyone converted to that system here in the US? Anyone know a good source of the system? BTW i'm currently searching but I haven't found anything so don't moan about searching.



Santiago

 

When you shop for the LIM, remember to buy the ECU(N322) and engine wireing harness.
The butterfly valves are solenoid/ecu operated.
If you want to get better flow from the ports, you might want to get the intermidiate iron and endplates too.
Intermidiate iron does not have the egr-system in it and the endplates is better flowed without the deadend from the valves

 

mung

 

I'd LOVE to see pics of all this. Can you help?

 

What makes you think that?

 

The fact that a friend is having to run open aux. ports on his engine because of the design of the porting(don't ask as I don't know what that means) but since the butterfly setup doesn't use sleeves that must be held in there it would allow closed aux ports(better low end).

 

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You either have a divided 6 port system, or you have a single 4 port setup, so if he still has a 6 port divider in his engine, his ports can still function properly, if he wants them to.

Now, with some large ports on the auxiliaries, I can see where it might be necessary to cut down the port sleeves some to accomodate the larger port size and shape, but to say you can't use them at all because of the porting...

 

Interesting. I have been told by a few that they "couldn't" keep the sleeves in there because of the ports. Maybe they are getting lied to. lol
In any case I am interested in the setup either way. I always thought it was an interesting alternative.


Santiago

 

Kevin,
I thought you had seen the Euro LIM.
Higgi posted a picture maybe a year ago.
6 intake ports, no rotating sleeves, Aux ports opened/closed by a throttle type butterfly valve in the LIM runners.

 

Oh, I've seen it. Just, not detailed pics of the ports in the block that kim describes.

 

I’ll bet those irons are very rare.

It would sure make an exotic turbo setup..

 

My dream is a turbo/renesis in an FD or 2-seat RX-9.

But that's waaaay off topic.

 

US and EU six ports irons are slightly different, but not by much as far as i can say, i don`t remember any major difference in size or shape of ports

We are running EU LIM on US N326 ECU no problem (grey solenoid used to operate butterflies)

 

Kinda on the same topic...I'd like to run the ports seperately altogether. If I'm not mistaken the RENESIS does this very thing...primary alone, then with secondary, then all 3, then with acoustically tuned paths. But that would mean having to make another manifold to allow the other runners to be operated by sleeves or butterfly valves.

Kiyo

 

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...hreadid=258319

This is the famous LIM


Euro spec endplate


Euro spec intermediate iron


Another one


Some testporting by RETed on one of Higgis used irons


This was my first rebuild/porting, it fired up after a few seconds on the starter and I havent touched it since, has a perfect 700/800 rpm idle and it pulls like a mother fucher Im so proud

And just to make you all jealous, I have a complete spare motor in my basement, waiting for a rebuild due to a blows waterseal.
Did I mention that all danish FCs came with 4.33:1 LSD and aero sport package

 

why does the us always get the short end ofr the stick when it comes to cars? How much HP did those make?

 

My 86 N/A came with 146 bhp
S4 and S5 turbos are the same as US ones.
S6 is a 239bhp version, though I believe it a tax/registration/insurance thing as some EU countrys has fuched up laws on high powered vehicles

 

Thanks for the post kim. INformative, I hadnt seen those ports before. Odd porting style on those, I'll say. I'd be real interested in seeing a stock iron with no porting.

The thing is, for us US guys, the power the EU setup gained by not having a dead end at the end of the auxiliary tunnels and 2 rods in the intake pathway, is probably lost by having that thick *** butterfly and rod in the middle of the intake pathway. Think TB mod here...we gain a bit of power by just removing the secondary TB plates. He quotes the same hp level our engine makes, just they do it in different ways.

The only advantage that setup offers, is probably better long term reliability, i.e. carbon won't build up as much that deep up the port, and so the butterfly will probably actuate longer than the sleeve in our engines, which carbons up very quickly. Plus, that butterfly has a much lower level of friction/surface area to work against than our sleeves which have a large surface area to try and rotate.

 

I was surprised when I first saw that Mazda used rotating sleeves in the Renesis.
My guess is the high end restriction of the sleeve vs. the low end damping effect of the dead air space behind the butterfly came out a wash.
It seems like they were giving some preference to gaining some low end torque.

 

The sleeves in the Renesis have a smooth radius on the end. Also, the ECU rotates them several times on startup to prevent carbon buildup.

The Renesis intake system is truly....interesting. On the high power engine, there is VDI, the 6 port system and a flapper at the airbox. Also, the secondary ports on the end plates are valved as well.

 

yeah the FE has a very interesting setup. I was checking it out in that RX-8 info file that was posted a while back. And I think on the "rotor" disk given out.


Santiago

 

You guys are assuming that the butterfly valves are superior to the rotating sleeves, yet not a single person can offer even a shred of proof either way. From the pics I've seen, I seen no obvious flow advantage.

 

I would agree, read my last post. They may be more reliable in the long run than sleeves, though, as sleeves stick very easily when not used consistently. But, as explained above, I believe that you probably get about the same flow, one way or another. Maybe a man could knife-edge those butterflies and shaft and do a bit better.

 

took few pictures for you guys :

on the left S4 NA US iron, on the right S4 NA EU iron

 

Quote-
You guys are assuming that the butterfly valves are superior to the rotating sleeves, yet not a single person can offer even a shred of proof either way. From the pics I've seen, I seen no obvious flow advantage.

I think some of the people interested in going to the butterflies are interested in doing so in order to monster port the Aux. port or add a bridge to it in which the rotating sleeve becomes difficult to incorporate.

Need a new LIM to optimize this, but you could have a streetable 6 port that was a monster on the top end.