Thnx Liquid. The way i see it, is
As far as engine life, ive taken a look at the NA irons and doing a bridge on the aux ports depends on how conservative you do it. from the looks of it, there is plenty of room for doing a decent bridge without questioning engine life. i saw that there is quite a bit of iron between the aux ports and the coolant ring. which if you want power but yet want engine life, dont do a huge bridge. Now im guessing most people on here want to run the heck outta their car on the street, i wouldnt suggest running anything past 8500RPM even though the bridge is good for it. the stock stationary gears cant handle it. to run it up to atleast there you would need a perf. oil pressure regulator, a RB header with a presilencer. as far as the exhaust diffusers the Turbo exhaust sleeves should fit right in and then eliminating the nasty NA ones, but as i list these are just the basics. I hope im helping someone out there and if im wrong on anything or have questions let me know.

ERic.

 

If youre not going to go past 8500, then why even do a bp? A good street port will make power to, or even past 8500.

Ready for a little lesson on port timing? The 6 port housings have nearly as much overall port timing than a PP, but it opens a lot later, as well as closes later. By doing a bp, youre making the motor have more port timing than a PP. The bridge may only be doing a small amount of work, but its goign to be enough to push the power peak past 9000. Whats the point in building a motor and not using a large portion of the powerband?

 

The only mods you listed that I intend to do are...

I started out with S5 internals, so that's not a problem. TII Oil Pressure Regulator & Oil Pump, Oil Pan Baffle, Tuned Header, and S-AFC are the only things that are getting replaced from my last rebuid (which included 2pc. apex seals, thermo-pellet replacment, FD corner seal springs, and PR racing sleeves)

Hardened Stationairy Gears, Rotor Bearings, Clearancing, a Standalone ECU, and a custom Intake Manifold are not needed if you don't intend to beat the hell out of the engine. If you say a motor won't last without everything you've listed... you're very wrong, or you take your engine past redline on every trim to the supermarket.

 

Read my above post. Im sure the motor will last up to 8500, but whats the point of doing a bp if youre still using a stock ecu and are going to keep it under 8500?

 

After having this thread go on this long, I'll actually tell you my plans for my Aux-port that noone else is doing.

1st, unlike the FC3S member that did this, I intend to keep a fully operational 5/6th port AND VDI system, with custom actuation points via an airpump and 2 RPM switches. Modified 5/6th port sleeves will open and close the bridge at teh same time as the main aux-port.

What does that mean? Below the 5/6th port actuation point, it won't have much more duration than my current streetported endplates. Oh... and for anyone whose not seen it... this is what the end-plate ports will look like upon completion. (This was made w/o the help of my engine builder, so the design may change slightly)


ADDITION; I never said I wouldn't be adding a standalone in the future, it's just not needed initally. Also, you don't know how much this will raise the powerband. Just like me, you've never seen a dyno-chart for this kind of porting.

I intend to talk to the guy doing my porting a lot in the next couple of weeks, I'll do what's needed. Odds are that most of what you included won't be... we'll just see. I'm 100% serious when I say I'm doing this mod to my street car, and I don't do anything half-assed... I just don't like spending money that doesn't need to be spent.

 

MS7; iam well aware of the engine making power past 8500, me saying that you should only do so with stock internals, therefore you would will aftermarket internals. and i am starting off with the stock ecu and will be gettin a haltech before the year is over with, i shouldnt have a problem tuning it since BDC is doing it.
(haltech list moderator). Liquid, the stuff i listed were basics you'd probably want/need, theres quite a bit of stuff needed, im just saying. im sure you know that.

 

It is a good idea to bridgeport these ports even if the engine isn't going over 8500 rpm. You are still going to have more power above 4000 rpm up to redline than you had without the bridges. They are small, velocity will be high. They don't need to rev super high.

About the casting sizes on the intemediate housings... Yes there are differences on some of them. S4 and S5 castings had subtle differences on the T-II housings. All the n/a's were the same thickness but all the T-II's were not. In essence everyone arguing on this topic is correct. It is just based on year model but some T-IIs do have a small amount of extra material behind the port.

 

I have never seen a dyno graph of a bridged 6 port, but I have driven one.

 

everything that Slammedblk7 has said i agree with, except that the stock ecu can handle up to about 220 to the wheels. NA rotaries dont need as much fuel as a turbo, so there for by doing a bp u can use that fuel that an na can handle up to. a t2 u will most likly need a stand alone, but for a NA street driven car that u dont plan on bring past 9k rpm, you wont need a stand alone. a s-afc will do fine.

ms7- i think what your talking about is making a race only rotary, i am jus talking about making a quick NA. my friend that i talked to today said i will be able to tune it with a bp and will work fine. the stock ecu already runs plenty of fuel.

i think the only reason for bringing a rotary up to 11k is if ur having a big bp to all the ports. the guy who is doing my engine, did a street port to his NA rotary and he brings it all the way to 85k rpm with no problem. he beats the hell out of it sometimes. he told me if u cant beat on the rotary and u have to be gentle with it, then it wasnt built right. on his engine he has everything stock except a s-afc, he tuned it himself. he knows what hes doing. he even told me if it blows because he tuned it wrong he will give me a new engine...which basically means it wont, because he wouldnt do it if he didnt kno what he was doing. because who wants to give away a free motor lol

correct me if im wrong on any of this plz.

 

and o yes i will show u dyno once i tune mine, it wont be for atleast a month though, i jus took the engine apart today, i have to order seals and a new housing, so until then we must wait

 

Ill reiterate what I said earlier. You wont make good power on the stock ecu. The AFM is too much of a restriction, and it really hurts high overlap motors(bp). Second, the stock manifold(S4 or S5) simply will not make good power. The requirements for runner length are considerably different, and its really going to hurt power.

Im not talkign about building a race motor. Im talkign about building a motor that will make good use of the port. What is the point in porting a motor more than youre going to use?

 

well dont u think u make more whp with a bp than a streetport? and i am going to get a custom intake and working on the AFM. its going to work out good.

the bolt on **** i kno about and very awhere of what i need to make the most power with bolt ons. its the tuning and my friend knows all about that. hes teaching me about it as we go on with the engine.

ms7 dont get me wrong i know u know ur stuff about these babies, im not trying to disagree jus giving my opion on them.

i dont see the need for reving past 8500 rpm only if u plan on going all out, and to do that it cost alot of $$. the only time u will need to replace the stock ecu with stand alone is if u go over 220whp or going over 8500rpm, for the reason of the rev limiter and fuel cut.

just wait till i get this engine back together its gonna scare alot of pple that dont know much about it. its going to run like a normal street ported engine at idle and then once past 3800rpms its going to scream like a bp engine. and we all know how loud that is

 

And where did you get this piece of information, specifically 220whp?

 

well im sure everyone knows that the stock ECU can only do so much, therefore makin an engine that is very aggressive would require some good fuel and ignition tuning. i believe that the stock ecu can handle a mildly done engine, but depending what you would want from the engine, it would be in the best interest to switch to a StandAlone EMS, to tune basically what ever you want. and yes what MS7 reiterated is correct on the Stock ECU issue,and i could see the AFM blocking a great deal of air. i say you will make some moderate power the stock one but plenty more with an EMS, im guessing majority of these guys wanting to do the bridge just want to thing to run and decently make power until they decide what to do.

 

The 220 rwhp is BS. No n/a will ever make that with a stock ecu and intake manifold.

A bp will make more power than a SP, but dont expect it to be easy or cheap. If you have a S5, the intake manifold will not only be a restriction, but also be useless close to redline b/c it will be maxed out. Ive seen SP motors come very close to maxing out the S5 afm.

 

-The 6 port housings have nearly as much overall port timing than a PP, but it opens a lot later, as well as closes later. By doing a bp, youre making the motor have more port timing than a PP. The bridge may only be doing a small amount of work, but its goign to be enough to push the power peak past 9000. Whats the point in building a motor and not using a large portion of the powerband?-



Mazda Factory Peripheral Port
IO 86° BTDC
IC 75° ABDC

secondary ports 6-port 13b:
IO 32° ATDC
IC 80° ABDC

bridged aux port 6-port approx:
IO 60° BTDC
IC 80° ABDC

R26b (peripheral port)
700hp@9000rpm,
607Nm (448 ftlb)@6500rpm

Liquid anarchy's redline 8500 RPM
I'm also guessing the liquid anarchy's port area will be less than the r26b's thus raising velocity and lowering the peak torque point. I think 8500 is a very reasonable redline for this port type. Also port CLOSING time is what determines runner length, not opening time, so the stock s5 manifold should do fine, as it is tuned for about 5000-7000 rpm with the vdi open. however the AFM is very restrictive, and the manifolds should be ported. Also the LIM is of horrible design, and the motor would do better with a custom intake manifold, but i think it will do quite well with the stock system and a 8500 rpm redline. Also a BP motor draws in fuel and air just like any motor once velocity goes up, the differance is when at low rpm, where using a stand alone to precisly tune injection pulses can make them much more drivable and smooth, but we shouldnt have to worry about that because the BP will be closed.

 

My point is that the work necessary to get it to run decently with the stock ecu will not be worth the very minor increase in hp over a SP.

 

You should have payed more attention in school. The whole idea behind tuning runners is to have the negative pulse from the opening of the port come back at a time when it will force more air into the chamber. Now explain to me how that has nothing to do with port opening....

Now the right answer. A BP is open a good bit longer than a SP, so therefore the port is open longer. For the pulse to arrive back at the port at the proper time, the runner needs to be longer. Keeping the same length runner will move the tuning point up in the rpm band. An aux bridge with the VDI open will have its powerband START at 8000 rpm.

 

im not sure theres not much to tune besides fuel when in high rpms, and maybe timing. Good stats Drago86

 

i say as soon as someone gets this done with the stock ECU and tuned with a fuel controller. and runs the heck outta it and likes the power it makes, ALSO runs fine, what can you argue with ? i mean i dont think theres some around thats done it and has something to say

 

There are people who have done it. There are 2 people who have had motors like runnign to my knowledge, but one of them was wrecked. The wrecked one was a S4, and from what I heard, it ran pretty good with 550 secondaries and a s-afc. The other one is a S5, and there are too many issues left to be resolved.

 

<You should have payed more attention in school. The whole idea behind tuning runners is to have the negative pulse from the opening of the port come back at a time when it will force more air into the chamber. Now explain to me how that has nothing to do with port opening....

-Now the right answer. A BP is open a good bit longer than a SP, so therefore the port is open longer. For the pulse to arrive back at the port at the proper time, the runner needs to be longer. Keeping the same length runner will move the tuning point up in the rpm band. An aux bridge with the VDI open will have its powerband START at 8000 rpm.->

good point, i was thinking only of the wave returing right before the port closed, you are definatly right in the above statment, so maybe a S4 manifold would be more ideal?.

 

S4 would be better, but still far from optimal. Ill work out the optimum runner lengths for a few different rpm points tomorrow if I get a chance, and post how off the stock manifold it is.

 

awesome, though youd have to know the exact opening time of the aux bridge, which would change from port to port, would you happen to know what RPM range the stock S4 manifold it tuned for on a stock port motor?

 

All ports may not be identical, but they will be within a few degrees of each other, which will effect runner length by less than an inch. Ill get back to you romorrow on the stock manifold/ports.