Anyone using AWR 2 piece brake rotors here?
11-01-07, 12:15 AM
#26
Lives on the Forum
11-01-07, 07:58 AM
#28
I just orderd the front setup of these. The single main reason I am giving this setup a try is that they are two piece rotors with DIRECTIONAL VANES.
For those that laugh at the FC brake system not being enough from the factory (4-pots with vented rears) i can only say you havnt truly pushed your car on a race track. Once you start running R-comps and dropping your lap times running 30min sessions, especially at heavy braking tracks you will start to blow up the stock brake system big time.
Here was my setup this year:
Carbotech XP-10 pads.
New Cryo-Treated Brembo Rotors
Full 3" ducting setup that pulls the entire stock fog light opening and is ducted directly to the rotor with an AWR backing plate.
Stainless Lines
Fresh ATE blue fluid.
Titanium Backing Plates
Even with this setup i was destroying a pad set per weekend. The brakes would fade after 2-3 hard laps and i was able to boil the fluid on a couple of occasions.
The stock brakes on the FC are too small for extended hard track use. Thus one must brake earlier and heat the brakes up more.
My strategy for next year is to see if between a higher temp hawk pad, im trying the HT-10 (im not impressed with carbotechs at all) and directionally vaned rotors we will see if that is enough. If you read up on racing brake systems ducting and directional vaning make the bigest difference in proper cooling.
If this still not enough next year its time for a full big brake upgrade. But i wanted to try these as they use stock calipers. 400$ for this setup is a whole lot less than even a crappy big brake kit. And, since i still run 16" rims a BBK would not only be the 2-3k up front but i would be buying rims and tires just to make it work.
We will see if it helps. I think one of the problems was running the carbotechs, they are very tempermental and once overheated once are basically junk. Plus if you dont bed them in just right they are crap from day 1....
For those that laugh at the FC brake system not being enough from the factory (4-pots with vented rears) i can only say you havnt truly pushed your car on a race track. Once you start running R-comps and dropping your lap times running 30min sessions, especially at heavy braking tracks you will start to blow up the stock brake system big time.
Here was my setup this year:
Carbotech XP-10 pads.
New Cryo-Treated Brembo Rotors
Full 3" ducting setup that pulls the entire stock fog light opening and is ducted directly to the rotor with an AWR backing plate.
Stainless Lines
Fresh ATE blue fluid.
Titanium Backing Plates
Even with this setup i was destroying a pad set per weekend. The brakes would fade after 2-3 hard laps and i was able to boil the fluid on a couple of occasions.
The stock brakes on the FC are too small for extended hard track use. Thus one must brake earlier and heat the brakes up more.
My strategy for next year is to see if between a higher temp hawk pad, im trying the HT-10 (im not impressed with carbotechs at all) and directionally vaned rotors we will see if that is enough. If you read up on racing brake systems ducting and directional vaning make the bigest difference in proper cooling.
If this still not enough next year its time for a full big brake upgrade. But i wanted to try these as they use stock calipers. 400$ for this setup is a whole lot less than even a crappy big brake kit. And, since i still run 16" rims a BBK would not only be the 2-3k up front but i would be buying rims and tires just to make it work.
We will see if it helps. I think one of the problems was running the carbotechs, they are very tempermental and once overheated once are basically junk. Plus if you dont bed them in just right they are crap from day 1....
11-01-07, 08:09 AM
#29
Lives on the Forum
I have zero experience with the Carbotech stuff, and you don't go into detail on how much power you're making or what kinda track you're running on...
We've had GREAT experience with the Hawk Blue 9012's.
If you're boiling the ATE stuff, you might have to *gasp* step up to the Castrol SRF stuff?
It really sounds like you're overbraking the car...
Don't mean to sound insulting, but what kinda driving experience do you have?
How much power does the car make?
What kinda turbo set-up?
How heavy is the chassis weight?
-Ted
We've had GREAT experience with the Hawk Blue 9012's.
If you're boiling the ATE stuff, you might have to *gasp* step up to the Castrol SRF stuff?
It really sounds like you're overbraking the car...
Don't mean to sound insulting, but what kinda driving experience do you have?
How much power does the car make?
What kinda turbo set-up?
How heavy is the chassis weight?
-Ted
11-01-07, 08:43 AM
#30
There's always Wilwood EXP 600 Plus, 621 F Dry Boiling Point, that fluid should be able to handle it.
SRF is only good for it's wet boiling point, but if you bleed before every event, the Motul/Wilwood stuff should be plenty.
I would say it's hard to outbrake the 4-pot brakes if you have an NA, but reading the previous posters sig, it looks like he has a turbo, quite possibly with more boost than stock. With more power than stock, I think it's not that hard to outbrake the system. In that case, a BBK is necessary.
OTOH, ITS guys run with lightened chassis and stock motors and have no problems with stock setup.
SRF is only good for it's wet boiling point, but if you bleed before every event, the Motul/Wilwood stuff should be plenty.
I would say it's hard to outbrake the 4-pot brakes if you have an NA, but reading the previous posters sig, it looks like he has a turbo, quite possibly with more boost than stock. With more power than stock, I think it's not that hard to outbrake the system. In that case, a BBK is necessary.
OTOH, ITS guys run with lightened chassis and stock motors and have no problems with stock setup.
11-01-07, 11:35 AM
#31
Lives on the Forum
ATE Super Blue only has a 536F boiling point, my parts store $5 a bottle Ford DOT3 fluid can beat that at 550F. Time to step up to a better fluid and better pads, although they say the pads are good to 1650 degrees, but that may be optimistic. The HT-10's seem to be good at really heavy use from what I've read. What's your power, weight and tires? EP cars run on slicks that are about 10" wide, and put over 200hp to the ground and run stock brakes just fine, although they are much lighter at ~2400lbs.
I think your experiance is a bit biased due to running with more power and weight than all the racers. That'll kill brakes in no time.
I think your experiance is a bit biased due to running with more power and weight than all the racers. That'll kill brakes in no time.
11-01-07, 12:34 PM
#32
I had been switching between ATF blue and RBF600. I have also noticed now since starting that cycle that when i run the MOTUL i do not have boiling fluid problems, only when I run ATF blue. I will not be runing ATF blue next year. The only reason i ran it was it was easy switching back and forth to know when you have completely drained the system of old fluid. So when bleeding before a weekend I would know i had completly flushed out the system of old fluid.
Regardless of what is going on with the fluid the fact that the pads get anihilated in one weekend means there is too much friction work being done relative to the weight of the car (read rotors are too small). And the side effect is more heat is generated than is ideal.
My car weighs 2850lbs without me in it. Yes, it is heavy. No im not interested in cutting it up and pulling a bunch of stuff out of it to improve breaking. That is a passive solution. I am interested in active, direct solutions. And i want a car that is somewhat streetable with, A/C, carpet and a radio.
The car puts 250-270 to the rear wheels depending on the dyno and with R-comps and each event of experience my corner exit speed is is increasing all he time, thus at the end of longer straights i am braking from over 120MPH all day long. And sometimes higher.
I guess i dont understand "over brakeing the car". I brake enough to haul the car down to the speed needed to not spin off the track while trail braking then going through the corner.
I have been doing track days and time trials for 5 years now, ALL with FCs. I had no brake problems when i was running street tires but with R-comps it is a completly different experience. Between greater grip in the braking zone and far higher corner exit speeds it is just over taxing an already small system.
People that track thier cars (any car) on a regular basis know there is a reason porsches, vettes, and even LIGHT cars like the exige benifit from nearly 14" rotors. More braking torque = less braking time and heat generation and more time off the brakes to cool them.
A friend of mine has gone through this same thing with his FD (larger rotors all around) when his braking system was stock. He had to go to a porsche 996 setup and a racing brake BBK in the rear to have a braking sytem that would use pads normally and not destroy rotors and pads in A DAY! He is almost the same weight as me.
The stock system may be fine for a sub 200HP weight striped N/A S4 but it is not for a turbo S5 with any kind of power increase on R-comps. Relative to production cars of today that are intended for recreational track use the FC rotor sizes vs the weight of the FC is abysmal. This is simple numbers. No pad material, fluid, or system maintenace is going to change that. The production track rat cars of today have 30% more rotor on 30% lighter cars. LOL.
The FC system is great for street and autoX use. It was a very nice system for it's day.
Regardless of what is going on with the fluid the fact that the pads get anihilated in one weekend means there is too much friction work being done relative to the weight of the car (read rotors are too small). And the side effect is more heat is generated than is ideal.
My car weighs 2850lbs without me in it. Yes, it is heavy. No im not interested in cutting it up and pulling a bunch of stuff out of it to improve breaking. That is a passive solution. I am interested in active, direct solutions. And i want a car that is somewhat streetable with, A/C, carpet and a radio.
The car puts 250-270 to the rear wheels depending on the dyno and with R-comps and each event of experience my corner exit speed is is increasing all he time, thus at the end of longer straights i am braking from over 120MPH all day long. And sometimes higher.
I guess i dont understand "over brakeing the car". I brake enough to haul the car down to the speed needed to not spin off the track while trail braking then going through the corner.
I have been doing track days and time trials for 5 years now, ALL with FCs. I had no brake problems when i was running street tires but with R-comps it is a completly different experience. Between greater grip in the braking zone and far higher corner exit speeds it is just over taxing an already small system.
People that track thier cars (any car) on a regular basis know there is a reason porsches, vettes, and even LIGHT cars like the exige benifit from nearly 14" rotors. More braking torque = less braking time and heat generation and more time off the brakes to cool them.
A friend of mine has gone through this same thing with his FD (larger rotors all around) when his braking system was stock. He had to go to a porsche 996 setup and a racing brake BBK in the rear to have a braking sytem that would use pads normally and not destroy rotors and pads in A DAY! He is almost the same weight as me.
The stock system may be fine for a sub 200HP weight striped N/A S4 but it is not for a turbo S5 with any kind of power increase on R-comps. Relative to production cars of today that are intended for recreational track use the FC rotor sizes vs the weight of the FC is abysmal. This is simple numbers. No pad material, fluid, or system maintenace is going to change that. The production track rat cars of today have 30% more rotor on 30% lighter cars. LOL.
The FC system is great for street and autoX use. It was a very nice system for it's day.
11-01-07, 12:47 PM
#33
To answer your question about the track, primarily i ran mid america motorplex this year. But i would like to run road america again sometime soon. Road america is one of the hardest tracks in the country on brakes from everyone ive talked to that runs it regularly along with other tracks around the country. Personally i cant compare it to tracks around the country but i do know it is a big time brakeing track, from having run it the few times i have.
Again my whole discussion is 20-30 min track sessions on r-comps in a heavier turbo FC.
Again my whole discussion is 20-30 min track sessions on r-comps in a heavier turbo FC.
11-01-07, 01:11 PM
#34
Yea, I'd see that, I wish I lived close enough to Road America to drive it, but unfortunately I don't. I've only seen it through Forza Motorsport, and it definitely looks like whoever's got the most power and best brakes will whup *** on that track. It's mostly high speed straightaways into a heavy braking zone to set up for the next straightaway. I can see how the brakes might be overtaxed on that kind of course, especially in a heavier turbo car.
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