I've been eyeing this option for a while now and just wanted to get some feedback if anyone is using them. I see no need for larger brakes on an FC (4 piston models), but I would like to save a little weight and if possible gain a smidge of performance (not worried about the cost to performance ratio, please) to boot.

So anyone running these rotors on a street and light duty (autocross and/or open track day) FC?

K

Btw, I'm speaking of the 2 piece rotor setup from AWR Racing ( http://www.awrracing.com/pages/rx/rxbrakes.html )

 

Anyone at all...?

 

Probably only a few, and they'd be hardcore racers, as that's quite a bit of $ to spend to shed a couple pounds. Lighter wheels will have a far greater effect on acceleration/braking as that mass is further out.

 

damn those are sick. Im going with those on the vert when its due, along with their SS lines and some hawk pads. I think they will provide a nice decrease in braking distance. I suggest you get them if you have the cash to do it, its an awesome setup.

 

I'd say they are performance proven. Those guys developed them racing. In racing you are much, much harder on brakes than most people ever are on the street.

Their FC body work is

Josh

 

Lesse...

It costs about $200 PER corner?
So ~$400 for just the front pair of brake rotors???

For 3 lbs. of weight savings per corner???

If we're talking about spec racing or very high dollar racing, I can understand...
But most us can't justify that kinda expense for very little gain in performance...

Plus, the description mentioned "minor machining" of the hub to make them fit?
Okay, if it was a full bolt-in application, it might've been cool, but now you gotta get pieces machined to make everything fit???

I like the part about how they claim stock rotors crack under severe racing...
What exactly are they doing to their cars that are cracking stock rotors???


-Ted

 

Haha, Ted you crack me up...I laughed about the cracking stock rotors part too *shakes head*. To me it's not really that high of a cost (the rotors themselves are only $87 or so), and yes I'm one of those kinda guys that will spend money on a thing like this for a small amount of performance.

I'm not interested in getting larger brakes in the least bit (which is for the record far more money per corner I believe ) and this is right up my alley for what I want. If I pick them up I'll let you know how it turns out though, but I'm still waiting for more feedback in the racing section.

K

 

If you add it up it'll be $834 for the whole car. You can get decent rotors for about $100 for the whole car. These WON'T make the car stop shorter, tires stop the car, not brakes. If anything they'll slightly decrease fade resistance because of the smaller heat sink, but they might pump air better to offset that.

Unless you're competing for the top spot in EP or something and that last 10th of a second really matters it's probably not worth it.

That said if you want them and you can afford it then go for it, but I'm just saying that there's probably better ways of spending the money that'll get you a bigger performance improvement.

 

What do you mean by 'decent' rotors and especially $100 for the whole car...where and what type of rotor (not name)?

Also I'm more than aware that tires are what stop a car (I preach this to my friends all the time) so that's not why I'm buying them. I have other reasons for looking to something like this (weight with the wheel as well...but I only use stock type wheels for personal reasons). This type of setup combined with the wheels I chose to run will roughly equal the weight savings of a 'super light' set of wheels. I build all my cars to a very specific style and I'll spend more money than some others may for parts to keep it at that. Also comparing this to a set of big brakes (which I do not want nor think are really necessary) is a very large price difference. A big brake kit is not in keeping with my style of tuning (everything retains stock appearance). In short everything my style is about is more or less like a special OEM branch kinda style (similar to say amg, mzspd, honda type r, etc.) I like to keep the car in the stock "confines" if you will and bring out a marked level above that.

Ummm...I guess you can think of me as having the mindset of someone who will work to save .5 kgs off a flywheel but won't remove the passenger seat even though it'll save 10kgs.

I do really appreciate the input though so don't take what I say harshly .

K

 

so... so far i see... many "reasons" why this is bad, but no one has answered the guys question. well anyhow i looked into them, since i too wanted to keep stock look

(that flew out of the window very fast once my budget kicked over, i went flying to used cheap quality parts my car looks nothing like a stock car, and is all distorted until i can afford better products including 2 good condition front fenders to replace my flared fenders.)

i Emailed awr, and they responded with "instructions" on what to machine, but for some reason i am not able to view the document. so i am still not able to understand the fitments issues.

now i wonder why no one else makes stock 2 piece replacement bolt on rotors for the fc3s. i see a market for it, not big, but its there.

from what i can tell, the whole deal is it cost money to install it, then it will cost an avg of 170-340 per replacement set. which still isnt bad if the car is driven right and good ducting is made. which they sell.

i can definitely see an advantage to 3 lb unsprung weight savings, although most speak of rotational mass, that is for acceleration. while if thinking about suspension efficiency if it's weight, it matters.


anyhow my original plans WERE vert bbs with stock t2 brakes with performance pad of choice and awr rotors. the car currently sits on n/a crap brakes, starion wheels, quite far off if u ask me. could not afford racingbeat cat back so ended up with a cost efficient stainless single exit. yeah very loud, wheels dont fit, shitty brakes... yup... ******* when money is tight, money is tight.

 

well I don't know about FC 2 piece but i have had 2 piece on previous cars.

The main advantage to the 2 piece is the weight savings... also replacing the ring is much cheaper vs a complete new rotor. Not very cost effective unless you upgrade the caliper too.

Now as far as the brakes on a t2...... um.. I think they suck. They fade WAY to quickly and don't have a great initial bite to them. Then again all my vehicles have had BBK upgrades. 13.2in rotors mininium

err
just my 2 cents

 

Thanks for understanding what I'm asking Ray, do you still have the document on what they said needs to be done? If so send it to me and maybe I can find a way to view it, I'm curious.

battle cattle, what is the problem with the stock 4 piston setup...these brakes are more than enough for more racing groups and open track days (change rotors and pads is it). As far as fade goes maybe you were just using the wrong pads and/or rotors, but I know for fact that the stock setup is excellent all around. What do you have on your car now...? If you just curing 'fade' then I don't think the easy way is to buy your baller brakes just some different material compounds.

K

 

Those rotors WOULD have really good cooling though... the two-piece design and directional vanes would have much better airflow (although it would be a waste without proper ducting, besides the tiny stock ducts).

OTOH, if you're racing at a level high enough to allow or require rotors upgraded that much, you're probably going to need something even more hardcore...

 

$87 for just the rotor outers?
Check out "Coleman"'s - some of the rotors go for like $30.
100% mark-up!


-Ted

 

I agree on the importance of efficient ducting when using this setup (or any other). I'm not racing on any crazy level just one of the few guys willing to spend nearly any amount to keep my style of upgrading...my style . Yes I could save the same weight buy deleting interior panels, pulling out the passenger seat, or using lexan windows but then it's not oem style anymore.

I love making a car work better and still having it remain "the same" if that makes any sense at all. But I don't enjoy throwing random parts on a car so it'll make certain number (1.0g, 0-60 in whatever time, 200mph), no offense to anyone but it's simply not my style.

K

 

Haha, $30 is really cheap but remember Ted I'm crazy $87 is cheap too . I'm one of those rare FC guys that'll spend enough money to buy a mint FD and be perfectly happy w/o actually getting the FD.

K

 

I guess its just much less than I am use to. I have run race pads but they don't bite well in the begining.. duh... but don't fade. its all a give and take but bigger rotors allow for a lesser pad for better streeting... atleast in my opinion

 

KiyoKix, I like your style. I have the same mindset w/ my car and have long considered these brakes as an option.

I have not had any luck finding any issues with them, but nothing good either. From looking at them, my concearns are the 6 bolts that keep the rotor to the hat. Typically quality 2 piece brake kits have 8-12 bolts, and have a wire that runs through a small hole on the head of each bolt to keep each bolt from backing out. Those may have that feature, but its difficult to see on any pictures on their site. Other thing to note is the hat itself. The aluminum hat will expand at a different rate than the steel rotor, and should have means to allow some flexing due to this thermal expansion. Typically the hat will have small cuts in between each mounting bolt that travels towards the top center of the hat (the flat surface where the studs are located).


Also KiyoKix, what model have you started with and what have you done so far?
I started with a '86 Sport. Completed a full turbo swap (everything from rear brakes, diff, wiring harness etc etc.), full exhaust (actually fairly quiet), FMIC, RB springs, koni struts, and other select items have been changed and adjusted. Still looks stock! Planning to do some underbody aero work and foam chassis stiffening this winter.

 

Haha, I seem to be always working on someone elses care lately and my own has taken a backseat. Anyway I started out with an '86 GXL (sought out after that specific model) it's still N/A which is also something I'm big into. I have recently converted to a carb (Mikuni 44mm) for the time being for fun,curiosity, and so that I can do a lot of work FI wise and still have the car running. No header yet (probably picking up a new welder this weekend), running a single high flow car and presilencer with a 60mm exhaust so it looks damn close to stock but I still get the flow I need. Still undecided on what spring setup I'll be running (it will definately be from ground control though) I'm still working on ratios now. I finally decided to start testing some new things out and stop working on so many other cars lately so these next few weekends will be pretty expensive.

I've got some serious thought into the underbody of the car (a few people have been asking me about this again as it's a topic we talked about some years ago).

If you wish I'll keep you updated on what's going on with the car so you can try things I'm trying or give input. It's why I'm in the club to begin with, btw EVERYONE thanks for keeping this thread serious and not shooting flames as it seems very common lately .

K

 

The stopping distance comment was directed to Ronon, who posted that they'd decrease the stopping distance.

Actually all the rotors I saw on Coleman are too big, the AWR ones are probably a custom size in order to be class legal (stock size). The custom rotors from them are actually about the same price within a few $. Given that it's the same thickness I don't think there's much room for increased flow, and I've seen tests of directional vented 2 piece rotors back to back braking tests with stock and there wasn't a big difference.

What you're reffering to is safety wire on the bolts, they may have that done, or if you ask I'm sure they'd do it for you.

Generic rotors from NAPA or others are good and cheap, many people race with them with no problems.

 

I tried out a generic set of rotors from napa once but didn't really get too much on them. Those things are REALLY cheap (price wise), I was pretty surprised. Agreed on the stopping distances, it may be 1 foot shorter, 1 foot longer, or not change at all which is fine with me. Weight is more important as is the cooling of the rotor which I believe will be a little better (nothing record breaking).

Agreed on the safety wire as well, I'm sure they'd do it no prob...if not I can always get it done or do it myself. I haven't taken a look at the 'Colemans' you and Ted mentioned. Is there a link I can see as I've never heard of them as far as I can remember.

K

 

Okay off to sleep for the time being, shall we all continue tomorrow

K

 

Yes, this is called a "full floating" rotor...
This brings up a good point.
If it's not full-floating, the brakes makes all kinds of weird noises under heavy braking.
We found this out developing the brake kits at K2RD by accident... :P


-Ted

 

Thanks Ted, I knew there was a specific term for that!

Ted, did those brakes make much unwanted sound under light braking?

 

Under light braking, there was minimal noise.
It's the heat expansion that caused all the "cracking" noises under heavy braking.
It sounded like the brakes were going to fall off!


-Ted