Anyone have hard #s for front mounting the stock IC?
08-29-04, 07:42 PM
#1
Anyone have hard #s for front mounting the stock IC?
This is for my mildly modded daily driver, hence the cheap route.
Today I did a 4th gear pull on the freeway. Ambient temp was 65 degs F.
Cruising around I was at 75-80deg F with my filter seeing fresh air. Boost started @ 8psi @ 3000rpms and went to 13psi by 7krpms. Intake temps were 140deg F when I let off. I make the same power @ 8psi in 1st gear @ 7600rpms that I do in 4th gear @ 13psi because of the heat difference of 60+ deg F. I dunno about you guys but thats just rediculous. I am not using a boost controller so its not like I can just turn the boost done etc, and besides it still gets hot if I run 1/2nd gear which are under 10psi...
I looked through several of the threads and none had any actual hard #s. If the numbers aren't good enough for me I will just wait and use a Real intercooler.. But I figure since I can make it all for really cheap, why not if it works half way decent?
Today I did a 4th gear pull on the freeway. Ambient temp was 65 degs F.
Cruising around I was at 75-80deg F with my filter seeing fresh air. Boost started @ 8psi @ 3000rpms and went to 13psi by 7krpms. Intake temps were 140deg F when I let off. I make the same power @ 8psi in 1st gear @ 7600rpms that I do in 4th gear @ 13psi because of the heat difference of 60+ deg F. I dunno about you guys but thats just rediculous. I am not using a boost controller so its not like I can just turn the boost done etc, and besides it still gets hot if I run 1/2nd gear which are under 10psi...
I looked through several of the threads and none had any actual hard #s. If the numbers aren't good enough for me I will just wait and use a Real intercooler.. But I figure since I can make it all for really cheap, why not if it works half way decent?
08-29-04, 07:50 PM
#2
The mystery of the prize.
fmic should help your situation, but 13psi is likely so hot because it's getting beyond the efficiency range of the turbo...
bigturbo mentioned your turbo was starting to go also, so you might not want to bother with changing the IC yet, step up the turbo and you might find the stock IC is sufficient for efficient 13psi.
bigturbo mentioned your turbo was starting to go also, so you might not want to bother with changing the IC yet, step up the turbo and you might find the stock IC is sufficient for efficient 13psi.
08-29-04, 07:56 PM
#3
um aren't you the guy that has the upgraded turbo for sale in the for sale section??? IF you are you aren't usuing the stock turbo are you??? Also if you do descide to front mount your stock ic if you make some extra piping for it and its done right I'll guy a set from you 
08-29-04, 08:02 PM
#4
Originally Posted by hondahater
um aren't you the guy that has the upgraded turbo for sale in the for sale section??? IF you are you aren't usuing the stock turbo are you??? Also if you do descide to front mount your stock ic if you make some extra piping for it and its done right I'll guy a set from you
08-29-04, 10:01 PM
#6
Originally Posted by hondahater
ahh why not run the upgraded turbo?
...I do have another t2 that will satisfy my wildest dreams.
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08-29-04, 11:46 PM
#9
Displacement > Boost
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There are a lot of medium sized fmic's on ebay that have decent cores, custom made tanks and prices around 300 bux, I got one, a tube/fin bar/plate hybrid and the construction is very good, well made and excellent for the price. I'm talking louvered fins all around like the high dollar units . .
08-30-04, 01:33 AM
#11
I'm a boost creep...
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Yep, sort out the boost control (i.e. port wastegate) and the boost and intake temps will come down to safer levels. In the mean time I hope you have the fuel for 13psi...
08-30-04, 01:36 AM
#12
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I believe he has an e6k on both fc's.
If you are going to go through the trouble of front mounting the stock intercooler, you might as well buy a decent core. (spearco, etc.)
If you are going to go through the trouble of front mounting the stock intercooler, you might as well buy a decent core. (spearco, etc.)
08-30-04, 02:35 AM
#13
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Originally Posted by gsracer
I believe he has an e6k on both fc's.
If you are going to go through the trouble of front mounting the stock intercooler, you might as well buy a decent core. (spearco, etc.)
If you are going to go through the trouble of front mounting the stock intercooler, you might as well buy a decent core. (spearco, etc.)
I thought there was some kinda stand-alone on it.
I mean, come on, you pay good money for a stand-alone, but you're bitching about a FMIC?
That...just...doesn't...make...any...sense...
-Ted
08-30-04, 04:26 PM
#14
Originally Posted by RETed
No ****!
I thought there was some kinda stand-alone on it.
I mean, come on, you pay good money for a stand-alone, but you're bitching about a FMIC?
That...just...doesn't...make...any...sense...
-Ted
I thought there was some kinda stand-alone on it.
I mean, come on, you pay good money for a stand-alone, but you're bitching about a FMIC?
That...just...doesn't...make...any...sense...
-Ted
The wastegate is ported as far as I could go on the stock flapper. On a 55deg day I have seen 13psi in 1st gear @ 8000rpms. I have plenty of pump and fuel.
08-30-04, 04:44 PM
#15
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Originally Posted by 1Revvin7
Well if its only going to drop the temps an extra 10degs with a real core then why would I spend the extra money? Plus I don't want a huge pressure drop with a decent size fmic on the stock turbo. Ontop of that I still have the stock radiator and front bumper on this car, I don't need my water temps skyrocketing.
Most serious sized FMIC's will easily produce a 100F drop at around 15psi.
The intake temps off the turbo will be around or over 200F, but after passing through the IC, it should drop to 100F to 150F.
Now, I would think the temp drop would be a little better than 10F.
You mention stock turbo...
This makes for an odd combination of parts, as most times an upgrade turbo is already installed when an aftermarket stand-alone EMS is being tuned.
You make a very good point about pressure drop.
If you're worried about pressure drop, don't even bother with an FMIC.
The extra pipes just to run any IC core up front would induce lag.
You've invested a lot of time and money in the car.
I would think an upgrade radiator would be a logical choice.
If you're going to be serious about the set-up, and I think you are due to the purchase of an aftermarket stand-alone EMS, an upgrade radiator is highly recommended.
The wastegate is ported as far as I could go on the stock flapper. On a 55deg day I have seen 13psi in 1st gear @ 8000rpms. I have plenty of pump and fuel.
Just porting the orifice larger does not automatically make it more effective.
In fact, I'd be surprised if it did just by "making the hole larger".
You need to go into the passage and port the metal back there.
If you start to massage the wastegate passages to blend in smoothly for the exhaust flow path, it would make for a more effective wastegate system.
Good luck.
-Ted
08-30-04, 04:52 PM
#16
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I can't recall if this is in a s4 car, but I believe it is....
There is no way you can curb boost creep with the stock wastegate flap. You need to weld on a larger flap and then bore out the wastegate hole some more. On my old s4 turbo, I had an extensively ported wastegate, and it would still creep like a bitch.
There is no way you can curb boost creep with the stock wastegate flap. You need to weld on a larger flap and then bore out the wastegate hole some more. On my old s4 turbo, I had an extensively ported wastegate, and it would still creep like a bitch.
08-30-04, 04:57 PM
#17
Ted,
The entire hole is larger and I backcut into the turbine housing runner. Its as good as it will get without going to a bigger flapper door. I think its just time for a bigger compressor that will not produce as much heat and a real fmic. Maybe I should just keep my to4E s5 hyrbid and put that on. That would help with the boost creep and should keep the temps at a more reasonable bay...
The entire hole is larger and I backcut into the turbine housing runner. Its as good as it will get without going to a bigger flapper door. I think its just time for a bigger compressor that will not produce as much heat and a real fmic. Maybe I should just keep my to4E s5 hyrbid and put that on. That would help with the boost creep and should keep the temps at a more reasonable bay...
08-31-04, 01:08 AM
#18
I'm a boost creep...
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Originally Posted by 1Revvin7
Plus I don't want a huge pressure drop with a decent size fmic...
Its as good as it will get without going to a bigger flapper door.
08-31-04, 02:32 AM
#19
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Water injection
Water Injection will help you greatly. It reduces intake temps by 10-15F instantly. Here is more information: www.nyxmotorsports.com (click on the nissan water injection kit) btw that is my site, I'm fairly new to the rotary/mazda cars since I just bougth a rx7 t2 with blown motor for $300. I have a 300zx tt that I've been running that water injection kit for many months. It's the single greatest upgrade I have done.
Seriously my egt's dropped about 30-50C depending on how hot it is out and this is running a fairly small misting nozzle + smaller pump. Intake temps drop vs going up the difference is felt. During a 110degree day @ Willow Springs Track, 25 minute session without water injection pushed my Coolant temps to 99.6C MAX, with water my coolant temps were 10 degree's C lower @ 89.2C. Now this is COOLANT temp but shows how much cooler the engine is running.
Read into WI as you can also mist your IC which will help cool it down.
BTW: First post on this forum, I've been lurking for months, have leared a lot about rotary engines.
-JokerF15
Seriously my egt's dropped about 30-50C depending on how hot it is out and this is running a fairly small misting nozzle + smaller pump. Intake temps drop vs going up the difference is felt. During a 110degree day @ Willow Springs Track, 25 minute session without water injection pushed my Coolant temps to 99.6C MAX, with water my coolant temps were 10 degree's C lower @ 89.2C. Now this is COOLANT temp but shows how much cooler the engine is running.
Read into WI as you can also mist your IC which will help cool it down.
BTW: First post on this forum, I've been lurking for months, have leared a lot about rotary engines.
-JokerF15
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