skir2222

Ok I have a few questions i've done some searching but i can only do so much on my own.

From what I hear, A full turbo upgrade wont work on stock ecu. Why will it not work? What if you have a piggy back boost controller like the Apexi AVC-R?

Is there a way I can upgrade my mass airflow sensor?

I have been trying to look this one up... Ok I wouldnt mind spending 700$ for a car ecu, but 1200$ then getting it tuned to much money. I know it is possible but is there anyone out there that decided to run a "home computer" in the car and have the fuel, ignition, and boost maps on it? I would be very interested in this.

Why am I asking these questions? simply because I don't understand a few of these things i've tried researchin but I think it would be the best to ask poeple who have the same thing as me.

I have a 1988 10th anniversary rx7. It currently has a racing beat fuel cut defenser, Apexi SAFCII, Walbro 255lph fuel pump, custom intake, Bonez downpipe with Bonez cat, and a racing beat catback system. I will be acquring a msd 6a ignition soon and plan on buying a boost controller soon.

I plan on buying a koyo radiator next with a electric fan and mount a fmic in my engine bay and get the plumbing for that fabricated. After getting those 3 things I want to build a turbo kit using a T04E turbo a HKS manifold or StoneRacing and a tial wastegate. So I would defiantly appreciate your guys inputs on this!

Icemark

no point... stock AFM is fine up past 350 HP

skir2222

That answers 1 question...
I really want to know why the stock ecu cant handle a full turbo upgrade with a aftermarket boost controller

MrSparkle

because the stock ecu has a fuel map for a stock car and a piggyback can only go so far. you need more fuel.

jd to rescue

iTrader: (3)

The stock ECU settings for the duty cycle on the stock injectors will not allow for enough fuel flow to maintain adequate air-fuel ratios under a boosted system. If you do not flow enough fuel you will lean the mix out. Too lean a mix and you will not be able to keep the combustion process controlled (cool enough) to keep from burning out your apex seals.

neu

couldnt you upgrade the fuel pump, injectors, and get an safc.... ?

Parastie

Yes and people have done. Aaron Cake ran a boosted NA with stock ECU, larger injectors, upgraded fuel pump and an SAFC.

5252

look in the for sale section, you can find microtechs and haltech E6K's for between $6-900 all damn day, usually with a harness too. If you get one I wouldnt recomend sharing other peoples maps and just using thiers, even if you have same mods as they do. You can get a turbo upgrade and run it with what you have, but you have to be careful about your timing (thats were a standalone come in play), so you wont wanna be running alot of boost, and you for sure wanna go to the dyno and make sure its running safe. I would recommend you getting a good wideband too.

RETed

It's not that it WILL-NOT-WORK.
It's NOT-RECOMMENDED.
The stock ECU is programmed to handle STOCK.
You're going to be doubling...even tripling, the stock power levels.
So does that make any sense?


First, it's not a "piggy back".
Second, the AVC-R is just an EBC - electronic boost controller.
All it does is raise boost levels (and monitor some other engine sensors).


No, not very easily.


Home computers are NOT very reliable.
Can you imagine what would happen if you blue screen when driving at 100mph+???
Heat and vibration would quickly kill a home computer.
This is why they are not used in an automobile.
How old are you?


Stay away from that Stone Racing ****.

You need to pay to play.

Performance costs money.
If you can't afford it, don't do it.
It's going to bite you in the ***.

Seriously, I don't know what your goals are with your car, but over 250 - 270hp levels, **** gets expensive VERY fast.
Full turbo upgrades require the turbo, turbo exhaust manifold, wastegate, and FMIC.
A stand-alone EMS is HIGHLY recommended.
If you can't afford these things, don't even think about it.
Just enjoy your car for now.
If you get cheap, you're going to end up staring at it sitting in your garage as a giant paper weight...


-Ted

neu

The stock ECU will work fine unless you're talking about a competetive race car or something, i mean if your building a strip car... then upgrade the ECU... but if you're gonna be driving the damn thing... upgrade the fuel system, add a safc, etc.. if nothing else, see what you can get out of the stock turbo and ecu... and take it from there... you will still have things you can use if you upgraded at some point... you're not going to need hellacious amounts of boost ... just work on it the way it is, good exhaust and intake, upgrade untill you've gotten it to where YOU want it... make it work... ok im done rambling now

skir2222

Ok so it will work. I have no problem getting bigger injectors I just wanted to know why poeple didnt reccomend it because I dont want to go out there buy the stuff and have it not work. I thought it had something to do with boost thats why i asked what if you had a ebc.

I thought of a home computer basically because its a computer. I'm sure someone has done this. I have a unix system running really stable. but I do agree with you the vibration would mess up the grounds to the motherboard that was just a quick question because i never seen it out there before.

I do agree with the pay to play, but before i do pay i would like to know everything i need to before i proceed with this.

affording the full turbo upgrade is really easy. before i purchase my wastegate exhaust mani. and turbo I am goin to upgrade my radiator and get a electric fan. after gettin in my radiator and fan im goin to drop in a isuzu intercooler and when im puttin that in im goin to order all my turbo **** so i can get everything done. I plan on using a T04E turbo no more then 15psi because of the whole wear and tear thing and ive seen many turbo motors get destroyed because of boost. I plan on goin 720cc primarys and i suppose 720's on the secoundaries also.

Once again I would go ems but they are outragously priced and how do i know if the tuner tuned it right that would not be cool to blow a motor because of poor tuning

skir2222

I have a 1988 10th anniversary rx7. It currently has a racing beat fuel cut defenser, Apexi SAFCII, Walbro 255lph fuel pump, custom intake, Bonez downpipe with Bonez cat, and a racing beat catback system. I will be acquring a msd 6a ignition soon and plan on buying a boost controller soon

Parastie

It's not recommended because it's not safe for the engine.

An aftermarket ECU gives you full control of the engine, you can tune to a much finer detail. The piggyback setup is only going to get you so far and will not give you the performance for an after market setup.

Also.
Putting a cone filter on your car does not make it a custom intake.
An msd 6a doesn't really do anything unless you're running about 7K RPM constantly (and I mean CONSTANTLY).
The other mods are a good start, larger secondaries next followed by the boost controller. After that you need to consider getting an aftermarket ECU.

Impreza2RX7

Completely disregard this post. Also, get ahold of me, I can help you out quite a bit since I live in NJ also.

skir2222

wtf? are you a idiot? a msd6a gives power throught the powerband will only give about 5hp from what ive been reading I dont care its free therefor free power why not take it? umm if you change the way air goes in its intake and I made my intake (not the filter though). I would say boost controller first because i rather limit the air bein pushed in. Whenever I get the money gathered up im buyin a radiator gettin a elec. fan mounting my fmic in and hopefully gettin a boost controller hooked up. After those are done I plan on gettin bigger injectors then onto the turbo. I agree with the aftermarket ecu you can fine tune everything with it and the safc is just a piggy back but the safc. the safc can adjust fuel just gotta hook up a wide band to it and adjust it from there. What else would have to be adjusted for a turbo? I heard timing would be off is this true?

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

This is a little off topic, and a little bit of a nit-pick, but I have to comment on this.

I have been running my MP3 player (which is basically a Pentium 166 "home computer" in a Lexan case with a custom power supply) in my car since 1998, without any problems. So a computer (complete with hard drive) will work fine in a car. Not that I would ever trust one to run an engine, however. At least, not unless I was running a real-time OS, in which case a dedicated processor is a much better choice anyway...

Parastie

I'm not an idiot.

1. A Boost controller can ONLY INCREASE the boost, it cannot drop the boost below stock. To do that you would need a larger Wastegate.
2. You show me Dyno's of the msd6a increase HP across the entire band.
3. Break up your questions so people can actually read them.
4. An electric fan isn't going to do anything unless you're working on your engine all the time and need the space.
5. A Wide Band 02 sensor is not cheap and you should look into getting one before you upgrade your turbo/injectors.
6. SEARCH. All of this information is on this forum already.

RETed

Hmmm...do you have any experience with uC's - microcontrollers?

uC chips are very simply components usually dedicated to a certain application.
Motorola 68HCxx variants are used in almost 90% of all automotive ECU's.
Within their programming language, there is a watchdog function which allows for instant reset if there is a "catastrophic failure" (short of losing power).
Although computer CPU's run at much higher clockrates, the relative speeds are different due to the vastly stripped code of the uC's - think RISC.
Computer CPU's also run all kinds of stupid background **** that just loads the CPU resources.
Most automotive ECU's run anywhere from a 4MHz to 30MHz rate - really PUNY compared to the 3.0+ GHz stuff that home computers are running at now...

I'd really like to see a home microcomputer run an entire automotive engine management system myself.
Just thinking about all those D/A converters just makes me cringe though...
I'm not saying it's impossible - it's just a waste of time once you see the beauty of using uC's for this application...


-Ted

skir2222

Thats why I asked if it has been done im sure someone has had to try it! a home uc as you call it are very cheap actually compared to a ems. Thats the topic i'm most interested in.

mycarisolderthanme

i dont understand how you can complain about the price of an aftermarket ECU when you "plan" to do a full turbo upgrade. the necessity is obvious.

RETed

I can buycheap $1 hammers made in China all day long.
Does it help me remove a screw?
Think about it...


-Ted

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

If you want a cheap EMS setup go with the damn megasquirt and put it together yourself.

Parastie

The Megasquirt is a fuel controller, not a true EMS. While there have been some mods for it to control some cars, last I checked it cannot handle the spark on our cars.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

I just read a few of their theads the other day of someone running a both ignition and fuel on their REPU with it, so either they're really close or already done. Either way, if you want to get cheap, you'd be hard pressed to find something as well represented.

Parastie

Really? That's cool if they did, do you have a link?