FDJUST4ME

Yeah I was going to hijack the recent one but i decided to make this thread instead.

Some of you may remember that I cant get my rx7 to start. I went off to school and wasnt able to work on it for a couple months but im on fall break until this sunday and I have been giving it a shot.

Backround: it pop starts but wont idle, just dies in neutral.

Wont cold start but it turns over just doesnt fire up.

I was told by a friend of mine (engineer) that it could possibly be the timing or idle control or the choke so I was going to adjust the timing today but I cant see a yellow mark on the pulley and even before that I realized that one of the screws on the CAS is almost stripped (on the top)

i can get pics later but my problem is: to rotate the pulley to set the timing you need to rotate the CAS right? to Rotate the CAS do you need to unscrew the two top screws or is there another bolt im missing?


thanks and sorry for another dumb thread.

HAILERS

You rotate the pulley by hand. As in grab the pulley and turn it by hand or turn it by pulling on the alternator pulley.

The pulley has two hash marks. The colors are probably gone by now. They're about an inch apart. Looking at the pulley from the front of the pulley, you turn the pulley clockwise til the first hash mark is opposite the fixed pin on the front cover.

The two small screws on the top of the CAS just hold that black cover on the CAS. The cover keeps trash out of the guts of the CAS and does nothing more. IF the screws strip out or fall out you can just put a touch of RTV on the cover to hold it in place to keep FOD out.

So, grab the alternator pulley and turn the engine/pulley in a clockwise direction til the first hash mark is opposite the fixed pin on the front cover.

Then remove the cover off the CAS by removing the two screws. Look at the attached jpg. One of the two *teeth* on top of the rotor in the CAS should be cutting across the corner of the black reluctor on the left/front side of the CAS's guts. If so, then the timing is very close to being right as is.

If the tooth is not close to cutting across the corner of the reluctor, then looses the bolt/nut that holds the CAS in place. Now rotate the body of the CAS till the tooth cuts across the corner of the black reluctor. Cinch down the CAS hold down bolt now.

Then get a timing light out, and warm up the engine fully. Shine the light on the fixed pin in the front cover. IF the first hash mark is not opposite the fixed pin, then loosen the CAS cinch bolt/nut and rotate it til the hash mark does appear opposite the fixed pin in the front cover.


The tooth cutting across the corner of the black reluctor is the condition you get is you align the marks on the bottom of the CAS as described in the FSM., ENGINE ELECTRICAL section. 'So, why pull the CAS out when you can just look into the top of the CAS and see if it's right or wrong?

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Because it's harder and therefore more manly?

FDJUST4ME

thanks hailers, you rock.


I will attempt to get that plastic bit that covers up the Guts ofthe CAS off but i am glad i understand that you can just twist the CAS to change the timing.

you also said twisting the ALT pulley works?

so two ways of turning the engine manually?

beefhole

iTrader: (29)

Third method, it's easiest to turn it with a 19mm socket on the main pulley. Don't worry, you won't loosen or tighten it.

HAILERS

************************************************** ************************************************** *************************************************
I'm not sure, but I think we might be miscommunicating. I'm not sure about that. BUT.....what I'm saying is you need to manually turn the engine in a clockwise direction (clockwise if looking aft at the engine), til you get the firs hash mark on the pulley to align with the fixed pin on the front cover.

Then you look into the top of the CAS and see if the pointer is cutting across the corner of the black reluctor as shown in my attached jpg above.

If that is not so, then loosen the nut/bolt in the slot on the CAS and rotate the body of the CAS till the ponter does cut across the corner of the black reluctor.

Once that is done fully warm the engine up. Then attach the timing lights clamp to either LEAD sparkplug wires and point the timing light at the fixed pointer with the engine idling under 1200 rpm. The first hash mark should be opposite the fixed pin on the front cover. IF NOT, then with the engine idling, rotate the CAS body til the first hash mark is opposite the fixed pin. ONce done, cinch down the hold down bolt/nut for the CAS and recheck the timing once more. If the timing is still on the first hash mark your thought.

There's a number of ways to manually turn the engine over. Pullng on the alternator pulley is but one. Works for me. A socket and ratchet on the large bolt on the e-shaft is another.

FDJUST4ME

ok i gotcha i was misunderstanding i think.

um so i THINK i got the mark lined up by turning the pulleys clockwise using the bolt on the ALT pulley. but now i cant get to the inside of the CAS because a screw on the top of the CAS is stripped on the head, like the screws threads are ok but the screw head is stripped.

what do you guys use to combat this situation

later im going to try some needle nose pliers and maybe some other stuff but until then i dno what to do, maybe a drill?

HAILERS

Well, you could drill the heads off the screws but if they're spinning that won't work so well.

Or if you had a Dremel motor or the like you could either grind the heads off or cut 'em off.

Or get a small pair of vice grips and grip the head and rotate it counter clockwise while pulling upwards.

Or if you have a timing light, then leave the cover alone and just fully heat up the engine and set the timing with the light. IF the first mark on the pulley isn't opposite the fixed pin at idle, then loosen the nut/bolt that holds the CAS down and rotate the CAS til the pin and the hash mark align. Then at some later date grind the head off the two screws ....lift the cover off........grab whats left of the screw shanks with a vice grips and rotate 'em counter clockwise while lifting upwards. Replace the screws if you can find some or ...RTV the cover in place lightly around the edges so nothing will drop into the CAS guts.

OR????

tweaked

iTrader: (4)

You don't need to take that cover off. Pretend it's a distributor on an old ford. loosen the 12mm (I think) bolt at the base of the CAS. then you can rotate it to alter the timing.
When you find your marks on the pulley, use white out or go to Autozone and buy a yellow paint pen. then you can see the timing mark while the motor is running to set the timing.

However, I have run into this problem and would like you to do something first. Check everything between the throttle body and MAF to make sure you do not have a leak. One of the little port plugs came off on one of mine and it did the same thing. I could keep it running at high RPM after a push start, but it would die at idle. When I finally found that hole and plugged it, it was right as rain.
Be carefull about taking advice from non-RX7 guys. Or anyone that isn't a mechanic. Case in point, there isn't a fuel injected car on the road that has a choke.

FDJUST4ME

thanks hailers and tweaked

to clarify: the guy i was talking to did say it that cars had something that acts like a choke. He was trying trying to best explain to me that my car might not idle because of a choke mechanism not working.

ok so i took some pics for you guys to analyze and I tried to match everything as best i could

i checked the airways and connectors from the TB to the MAF and I got nothing.

now I tried to start it but i just got the normal turning over without firing yadda yadda.
heres the album link if you want to check out videos and other pics: http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b35/Bloodredsoccer/
pics:

jd to rescue

iTrader: (3)

Alright, your top picture shows the fixed pointer on the front cover, but where is the hash mark on the pulley. If there is not a yellow appearing mark (maybe pencil lead in width) on the pulley, look for a strike in the metal itself. To set the timing you need to align those two points as a first step. Then you go to the CAS as HAILERS described. I have a different approach than HAILERS re the CAS, but lets not confuse things.

EDIT: I see it now. Didn't see it the first time. That should be correct.

FelixIsGod29X

iTrader: (50)

Vice grips works good for me. I even had to use them a few times to get rusty fuel pump screws out.

FDJUST4ME

im not even sure myself that i got the mark lined up correctly you can check my photobucket for more pics but I am thinking about just turning the pulley completely over to just make sure i got it set right.

trying to go out tomorrow to find a way/tools that i can use to get that screw out.

FDJUST4ME

update: got the CAS lid off and the timing is way off, im now going to attempt to follow what hailers said to do:
rotate the CAS body until one of the pointers is barely passed the black reluctor and then see if my mark on the pulley lines up with the pointer on the block

junito1

GL.
ANd use some good paint(i used red nail polish) to distinguish the yellow for red mark easily --once you start using the timing light.

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

Actually, you have that backwards:

What he said to do was rotate the engine until the marks on the pulley line up, THEN rotate the CAS to align that pointer to the corner of the black reluctor.

Cheers!

FDJUST4ME

EDIT: ok i tried it and no luck. Checked the plugs because I know its been sitting and they have been neglected for a while. Looks like all my plugs are pretty muched fouled and I may have been flooding it. Back to square 1,

so whats the best place to buy some NGK plugs?

also I am not sure if the plugs are the only problem because it wouldnt start in the past when I knew the plugs to be good.

any ideas?

thanks guys!

edit to wonko: yes I did it that way, pulley to yellow and then line up the CAS body with the correct pointer to reluctor placement.
however my previous post was a little hasty and I definitely wasnt thinking lol

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

Okay, as long as it was only the post that was backwards

Try a wire brush and some contact/carb cleaner for your plugs.... I wouldn't worry about replacing them.. Any auto parts store should have some plugs that'll work, though.

Be sure to crank the car with the ECU fuse out, gas pedal all the way down until no more fuel vapor comes out of the plug holes before you put the plugs back in.

Edit: I realized that this is a no-start thread, sorry, forgot about that tidbit..

I'd also put a dab of oil in the plug holes and rotate the engine by hand a few times, after you clear the flood (before you put the plugs back in). That'll help you build compression back up.

FDJUST4ME

you mean the EGI fuse right? yeah i had to go through all this stuff before. The plugs are pretty blacked and crapped out. Do you really think they could just be cleaned off?

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

Whoops, yeah, sorry about that.. EGI I was always able to clean 'em off that they'd get good spark if you held them against metal when the wire was on, then after that they'd fire the car up...

FDJUST4ME

aight

ok so i took some pics of my progress, if it can be called that, so far and some of the things that I am confused about.

The main thing is, there are alot of unplugged wires in the car, the engine bay, the interior, it seems like i find news ones all the time.

i took pics of the ECU and fuse box on the driver side.







theres this plug down there that is unplugged and im a little concerned. any help on identifying it?




thanks for all your help guys

satch

iTrader: (1)

The cars will have various plugs which are not connected to anything depending upon what option the car came with. For example, my car does not have either power windows or door locks but the doors are wired for it behind the door panel. I believe the same thing holds true for the alarm, cruise control, air bag, rear wiper, rear defroster and so on.

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

Okay, it could be that I missed the background on it somewhere, but can you give me a quick synopsis of the whole problem?

I realize it's non-start issue, but it sounds like if you push start it and pop the clutch it will run, right?

If that's the case, and you hold your foot on the pedal enough to get it warmed up, does it idle by itself, at all? And, if it doesn't, can you restart it without push starting it again? If it does, we'll have a different problem to diagnose than what I'm thinking

FDJUST4ME

check out my original thread, hailers was helping me in there and he probably remembers that thread.

thanks for your help wonko

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...94#post9259094

and to follow up on your post: i dont think it would idle after a pop start. i mean the only way i could get it to keep the revs up in neutral was by stomping on the throttle. but yeah it pop started right up and would run in gear, but it would run really rough.

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

Alright... Thanks for the background, that's really helpful (I just read the whole thread).

So at this point, have you drained your radiator, or at least topped it off? If you only filled up the reservoir, you may want to pop the cap off of the radiator itself, and top that off, too. To answer your question about the radiator drain, it's a phillips-head plug on the bottom of the radiator. As long as the coolant is topped off, don't worry about it too much until you get it idling.

Make sure you keep your oil topped off, too, while you troubleshoot.

My initial take on it now would be to top off the fluids, pop start it, and try to let it warm up to about 1/4 up the temp gauge. After that, see if you can get it idling, or at least starting up under its' own power (Without being pulled). Hopefully it will idle, but it if it is, it will probably be idling crappy at this point, so the first thing to start checking for is vacuum leaks. The easiest way to find these is to spray starter fluid around all of the vacuum lines + intake system. If the idle picks up at all while you're doing this, it means the car sucked in starter fluid, and there's a vacuum leak. It may be really obvious, too.. If you can get a friend to try to keep the RPMS around 1000-1500, listen all around the engine for hissing, that means it's a big vacuum leak