I was out driving around today and the roads were finally dry and clear. I was doing my normal rounds when around one of my corners there was some sticks and crap on the road so I had to take the inside of the long sweeping corner. Its posted a 35 mph turn, and I was in 3rd still pulling so I must have been going around 70 ta 80. Anyways I THOUGHT I knew what the DTSS felt like doing the little drifts and such, but WOW. At first it scared me, felt like the *** was going out, but . .... it doesnt. It just plants and grips. (feels like the *** is about a feet out, but isnt)


I did a few more experiments on that corner and a few others and was really suprised. IF you can be very smooth into/out of the turn its pretty amazing. (at least to me) Is it weird that my dtss still works for such an older car?

Right now I'm in the middle of a debate to either drift or not drift and keep the DTSS. For auto X what would you recommend?

What are your guys opinions on DTSS in general?

Thanks guys.

 

No your not, i kinda like it too, then again i've never driven the car without it but i've heard it can be different in a bad way

 

So what does one with the DTSS eliminators installed feel like? Would the rear be much more solid (possibly drifting) in a situation where dtss would be working/coushioning the forces? (like the example above)

 

I love them I have no prob with them....I haven't been in a car without them but yeah it grips like no tomorrow :-)

 

it would probably make it step out and retain a more consistant feel.

the dtss will try and compensate, and it being a passive system will make it squirly if youre not smooth in the corner.

it sounds to me like you have discovered the true prowis of the dtss system, if you can find your nitch in it, getting rid of it would be nothing short of selling out and downgrading for a trendy sect of the import pop culture.

thats just my opinion though, if i had the opportunity to wring out my rx and find that sweetspot in the dtss, id never let it go! of course, my favorite racing styles are grip, time attack, anything that involves glueing it to the track and pulling some G's!

its up to you! and good luck!

chris

 

BTW.... ure not dumb for likeing it..

 

u'd figure designed by engineers that the dtss would have some use......

 

i just eliminated mine and i like it for those turn you kick the *** end out as for highway driving it still sticks it only make the *** end kick out when you want it too other then that i feel no difference except i makes the *** more preditible theres no oh it might kick out it does or it doesnt you just have to be abled to control it

 

Yeah, its great for snap oversteer!

 

the only reason im not the biggest fan of dtss is it seems like it is difficult to find the grip limit and by the time the tires start squealing its almost too late to recover. could be my limited driving skills but just my opnion, although it definitly works smoothly.

 

It definitely feels different than any other car I've driven. Seems like it has much better turn-in, and it maintains the grip further. I just dont like how it makes the rear-end unpredictable, like others have mentioned.

 

I love the way it feels when you steer in HARD to a corner, hell yea!

I also love matting the gas and having the *** end under MY control. I think its probably easier though with more power(Turbos or any fc over 180hp)

I have Intrax springs and Tokico hp's on my 88 t2 rebuilt/streetported weed wacker and it is easy to control at high speeds and slow turns.

-Dustin

 

Once you have experience with the system, you can learn how to drive the car much faster through a corner than without it.

In addition, the stopping distances are better on a panic stop with the DTSS in.

But if you are- say a less experienced FC driver, well.. then the DTSS can be a nightmare, because you don't have the experience with the system active to understand it and to learn how to use it to your advantage. The majority of these type drivers, often don't even get to the point the DTSS kick in; in 99% of their driving. These are the ones that post how "unpredictable" it is. However with a properlly functioning DTSS system, it is very very very predictable.

All that said, I wish more cars had it.

 

so how many people have actually driven an FC with correctly working DTSS and not comparing their experiences to 15 year old worn out DTSS bushings?

 

Exactly what I have been saying for a while now.

 

Does it even matter how worn out the bushings are? Is'nt the system based on the verticle up/down movements of the shock/spring system? Doesn't the wheel toe in/ out accordingly.

Its an involuntary movement right..........with differences in weight/and turn's?

-Dustin

 

Why don't you just get the eliminator bushings and set the tires to toe in? It would be just the same, all it does is makes it toe in under high loads. Right?

 

If I'm interpreting right, that would make the tires pigeon toed.......correct?

That would make steering abear........wait, dont the eliminators eliminate it all togethor? not sure.

-Dustin

 

No, not at all. The DTSS system is based on loading of the hub through lateral acceleration. And yes worn out bushings make a big difference.

For less than .5G there is a slight toe out (less than 1 degree), as that climbs it switches to toe in (and even then only up to a maximum of 2 degrees at a 200 L (kg load).

Because of the bearing block being a half moon shape, and its placement in the hub. it prevents any loading due to weight. And the only difference in turns is based on the lateral loading in the turn. So, you go into a turn as slow as most drivers (under .6G) and there would almost 0 change. Real change really only happens at higher cornering, and in places were your average driver would have long ago lost traction without the DTSS.

 

Tell me if I am wrong, but arnt hte bushings made out of a special type of material that only works at said gs

 

It's probably manufactured at a certain density, so you could make it work whenever you wanted granted to had the manufactuing tools supplies etc.

The bushing is made so when a load is put on it, the car toes in, however, at lower speed turns (less load) it toes out a little to make the car seems as though it is oversteering.

Rather than rear steering it's more like a toe switch, automatically adjust toe based on cornering speeds.


However if you have your car toe in, or any other car for that matter, it will "stabilize" the car if done in the back. A properly adjusted suspension system is just as good as dtss.

 

Oh i also just read this

The 1993 RX-7 was new from the ground up Mazda abandoned the MacPherson strut / DTSS- semi trailing arm arrangement of the second gen eration for full-blown double A-arm suspension on both ends. Mazda, however, didn't give up the acronyms. The new RX-7 had DGCS (Dynamic Geometry Control System), which included the basic geometry of the system including all arms and linkages and bushings. The upper A-arm was "squeeze-cast" aluminum (squeeze casting is essentially a pressure-cooled casting equivalent in strength to forging), The load-carring lower arm was hot-forged aluminum, and the suspension up-right was forged steel. At the rear, to maintain proper toe control, a rather elaborate set of links was used. The main rear toe control link was ad- justable for alignment purposes.

Is the DGCS system kinda like the DTSS

 

No

 

Ive been driving 2nd gens since i got my liscense and when i got better at driving, i felt it and the toe steer still bothered me. On a freeway ramp i would slowly accelerate and suddenly feel the back step out slightly, when i reacted by countersteering a tad, the car would behave like it was still 100% gripping and just steered out a little bit. When driving with the dtss on a mountain road, i had to constantly adjust my steering angle mid turn. I eventually got the eliminators and a alignment setting the rear a little toe in and the front at zero. The rear at the same cornering force would still stay planted and when i felt a slide it would actually be sliding. MUCH more predictable. I now need to make much less steering corrections midturn. The only flaw in my mind is some of the nimbleness is gone, but the confidence i gained by eliminating the vagueness caused by the dtss is worth it and when i figure out a way to get some front camber dialed in i can get that nimbleness back.

 

Nobody else is going to comment about the fact that he was going around a 30mph turn at 70+ mph on a public road?