ALERT TELL TALE Oil injector failure indication (read)
10-12-01, 07:00 AM
#1
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
ALERT TELL TALE Oil injector failure indication (read)
Look at your oil injector lines first thing in the morning (o after the car has had a few hours of sitting).
Is there air in the lines?
Is the black oil sperated by air bubbles?
Are other lines totally black?
This is because the ones with air in them are sucking air in and leaking.
Not good. This indicates a imminent failure of the injector.
$34 at Mazdatrix.
Cheap insurance to replace them and the oil lines too!
(remove the air pump for easier access)
This isnt hard to do once the upper intake and throttle body is off.
You WILL break the lines removing the injectors.
a full set of new injector lines - $20
Sniper_X
Always tinkering
Is there air in the lines?
Is the black oil sperated by air bubbles?
Are other lines totally black?
This is because the ones with air in them are sucking air in and leaking.
Not good. This indicates a imminent failure of the injector.
$34 at Mazdatrix.
Cheap insurance to replace them and the oil lines too!
(remove the air pump for easier access)
This isnt hard to do once the upper intake and throttle body is off.
You WILL break the lines removing the injectors.
a full set of new injector lines - $20
Sniper_X
Always tinkering
10-12-01, 11:50 AM
#2
HAILERS
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That sounded so good I gave it a four star for the archieves. But....I realized that it won't work for some cars. My 87 turbo has fabric covered lines. Can't see bubbles. But I got inspired. I don't know how a 88 and above car is set up, but on the 86-87 the vacuum line for the spider is located at the front of the dynamic chamber. If you pull the line off while running, there should be no vacuum from the direction of the spider. If you do you have a bad injector. Have to plug the nipple where the hose went while doing this. Reason I'm interested is I have three out of four injectors bad on one of my turbo engines. I've been robbing Peter to pay Paul on the other engines and now the hens have come home to roost. Mazdatrix, eh? 34 big ones each.
10-12-01, 11:54 AM
#3
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Hey, if you can get in there you would probably do well to test it with an ohm meter to make sure the OMP itself is functioning properly. There's a test proceedure in the Haynes manual.
10-12-01, 01:08 PM
#4
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Sniper-X please disregard my above post. Its fatally flawed I'm afraid. Either that or my other car has a bad injector also, not likely. I know that there is supposed to be equal pressure on each side of the injector and thats about all. Sorry about the bad post.
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10-12-01, 07:55 PM
#10
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are we talking the same thing here? on the mazda trix site thier 20ea. for all 2nd gens.
im talking about the 4 lines that go from teh front cover oil metering pump up to near the injectors. theier clear plastic.
if so, let me know where you got em. i'll return these bastards. i need to save every penny as it is.
brandon
im talking about the 4 lines that go from teh front cover oil metering pump up to near the injectors. theier clear plastic.
if so, let me know where you got em. i'll return these bastards. i need to save every penny as it is.
brandon
10-12-01, 08:56 PM
#12
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
Hmmmmm.....
Now youv'e got me thinking.
20 x 4 -IS- 80.
I'm certain that when I asked for the 4 metering lines he quoted me $20.
Certainly he didnt quote me $20 for ONE of them when I asked for all four!
I'll have to check my reciepts.
You're probably right.
20 x 4 -IS- 80.
I'm certain that when I asked for the 4 metering lines he quoted me $20.
Certainly he didnt quote me $20 for ONE of them when I asked for all four!
I'll have to check my reciepts.
You're probably right.
10-12-01, 10:03 PM
#14
Not to discredit you Snyper-X, but um, I dont' think air in the oil lines is anything to worry about. Until you get some proof that is.
All my '7s had air in the lines. I think that after you turn the car off it sucks it out of the engine.
I'm not going to bother with how many miles my engines lasted with this. I wondered the same thing myself, but what your saying isn't really all that important chicken little.
All my '7s had air in the lines. I think that after you turn the car off it sucks it out of the engine.
I'm not going to bother with how many miles my engines lasted with this. I wondered the same thing myself, but what your saying isn't really all that important chicken little.
Last edited by Suparslinc; 10-12-01 at 10:09 PM.
10-12-01, 10:46 PM
#17
Originally posted by RX-7 GT
well it comes from the oil metering pump. and pumps after there shut off usually have air in the lines, same thing. so im sure its fine like suparslinc said.
well it comes from the oil metering pump. and pumps after there shut off usually have air in the lines, same thing. so im sure its fine like suparslinc said.
10-13-01, 10:27 AM
#20
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
Well, im sure alot of people THINK that air in the lines is no problem.... BUT......
Well, heres the deal.
I'm not in the habit of making posts with "ALERT" in their titles.
Much less without PROOF of what I am posting about.
As far as air in the oil lines goes, I am actually correct.
Well, YES, thast what all your cars ARE doing, but thats not whats SUPPOSED to happen!
( Have you studied the manual on this subject?!!!)
The metering oil pump and oil injectors are both check valves.
The oil injectors are designed to allow flow in only ONE direction.
(see the Haynes or factory manual).
The metering oil pump is capable of sending oil UP and in only one direction.
When I reassembled my engine, I used a vaccum pump to test the check valves on all 4 oil injectors.
Two had slow leaks, but I installed them anyway, because I was going to replace them the next week anyhow, and wanted to test my rebuilt intake and 6 ports ASAP.
It is ONLY those two oil lines attached to leaky injectors that have air in them, and the other two oil injectors that were fine DO NOT have air in their lines.
This is what led me to post this message.
I have also noticed that the OMP has a hard time filling and pressurizing these leaky lines with oil because of the (slight) back pressure due to the slow leak in each injector. Oil however did eventually get to the injector, but its certainly not at the right pressure and therefore injecting the proper amount of oil when compared to the other two "working" injectors.
Also these two lines take about 10 minutes to fill and pressurize, and the other two injectors start injecting oil immidiately.
If you have air in your injector lines, the injectors hould be replaced ASAP if you drive at all like these cars should be driven.
Sniper_X (no "Y")
Always tinkering
I'm not in the habit of making posts with "ALERT" in their titles.
Much less without PROOF of what I am posting about.
As far as air in the oil lines goes, I am actually correct.
I think that after you turn the car off it sucks it out of the engine.
( Have you studied the manual on this subject?!!!)
The metering oil pump and oil injectors are both check valves.
The oil injectors are designed to allow flow in only ONE direction.
(see the Haynes or factory manual).
The metering oil pump is capable of sending oil UP and in only one direction.
When I reassembled my engine, I used a vaccum pump to test the check valves on all 4 oil injectors.
Two had slow leaks, but I installed them anyway, because I was going to replace them the next week anyhow, and wanted to test my rebuilt intake and 6 ports ASAP.
It is ONLY those two oil lines attached to leaky injectors that have air in them, and the other two oil injectors that were fine DO NOT have air in their lines.
This is what led me to post this message.
I have also noticed that the OMP has a hard time filling and pressurizing these leaky lines with oil because of the (slight) back pressure due to the slow leak in each injector. Oil however did eventually get to the injector, but its certainly not at the right pressure and therefore injecting the proper amount of oil when compared to the other two "working" injectors.
Also these two lines take about 10 minutes to fill and pressurize, and the other two injectors start injecting oil immidiately.
If you have air in your injector lines, the injectors hould be replaced ASAP if you drive at all like these cars should be driven.
Sniper_X (no "Y")
Always tinkering
10-14-01, 12:10 AM
#23
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err.. how do you suppose that air got into the oil lines?
THe checkvalves on the injectors allow air to go through the injectors, but not out of the injectors.. if your checkvalves have failed and are allowing air to pass both ways, the only diffrence your'e going to see is the fact that oil from the lines can now pass through the checkvalve diaphram and into the vac lines..
The fact that your injector checkvalve is no longer holding vacume will not cause you to get air through your lines.. it will affect the ammount of metered oil you're motor is getting though...I suggest you look elsewhere for the source of the air in the lines..
The secondary oil injectors are actually 2 peices.. the injector and the checkvalve.. they can be seperated .. unscrew the 2 of them if you want a closer look at how they function
THe checkvalves on the injectors allow air to go through the injectors, but not out of the injectors.. if your checkvalves have failed and are allowing air to pass both ways, the only diffrence your'e going to see is the fact that oil from the lines can now pass through the checkvalve diaphram and into the vac lines..
The fact that your injector checkvalve is no longer holding vacume will not cause you to get air through your lines.. it will affect the ammount of metered oil you're motor is getting though...I suggest you look elsewhere for the source of the air in the lines..
The secondary oil injectors are actually 2 peices.. the injector and the checkvalve.. they can be seperated .. unscrew the 2 of them if you want a closer look at how they function
10-14-01, 12:49 AM
#24
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
errrr...
The fact that your injector checkvalve is no longer holding vacume .....
The oil injector system is not under any vaccum EVER.
Not the hoses going to the top of the injector, and not the oil injector lines.
The air got in because the oil injector leaks air backwards into the system.
the oil injeacotrs only allow the passage of material in the one direction. (into the engine)
The hoses that fit onto the top of the injectors are not vaccum either. They are pressure hoses.
Yes, these hoses are made of similar material to the vaccum lines, but like the hoses going to the AUX port actuators, these are pressure lines.
I'll investigate the thing about them being two parts.
I don't recall this being possible, but i'll look again.
10-14-01, 09:20 AM
#25
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I can quote you what Mazda thinks these components do(from one of their training manuals):"The purpose of the check valve is to prevent a reverse flow of the engine oil in the air passage during high-load,low-rpm conditions of the engine,in otherwords when the vacuum of the intake manifold and combustion chamber becomes low."
Of course now you ask:why have an air passage to the throttle chamber anyway?Well here's what Mazda think(from the same document):"Air is led from the throttle chamber to the check valve to prevent the suction of a large quantity of oil by vacuum when the vacuum of the intake manifold and the combustion chamber becomes high during rapid deceleration,etc."
So there you have it folks--the vacuum lines keep the pressure on top of the injector roughly equal to what it is at the bottom of the injector so that the quantity of oil injected is what the metering pump calls for.The check valve stops oil or whatever being pushed into the intake chamber.(I wonder if failed checkvalves could lead to oil in the throttle body and smokey start ups?Of course)
Of course now you ask:why have an air passage to the throttle chamber anyway?Well here's what Mazda think(from the same document):"Air is led from the throttle chamber to the check valve to prevent the suction of a large quantity of oil by vacuum when the vacuum of the intake manifold and the combustion chamber becomes high during rapid deceleration,etc."
So there you have it folks--the vacuum lines keep the pressure on top of the injector roughly equal to what it is at the bottom of the injector so that the quantity of oil injected is what the metering pump calls for.The check valve stops oil or whatever being pushed into the intake chamber.(I wonder if failed checkvalves could lead to oil in the throttle body and smokey start ups?Of course)