Advantages FC's have against compeditors in drifting?
04-22-06, 01:32 AM
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Advantages FC's have against compeditors in drifting?
So I was reading RETed's article on "Drifting the FC3S" ( http://fc3spro.com/TECH/DRIFT/dori.html ), and he mentions the FC as one of "the top 5 desireable chassis", but doesn't really elaborate as to why. Why is that? It seems to be general concensus that the S-chassis is the supreme platform for drifting, and the FC meant to be more of a grip car. What advantages does the FC have over its compeditors (S-chassis, AE86, even FD) in terms of drifting? Or is it just popular because its RWD and cheap?
Last edited by Healing; 04-22-06 at 01:36 AM.
04-22-06, 01:44 AM
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it's cheap and it's rwd
most of all, cheap power
imo, it's one of the best, but it doesn't have the most desirable look to the average joe. You know, at first look, the FC did look pretty ugly to me. After a few years of playing with cars, i started loving the styling.
S chassis has the more newbie friendly look that anyone would think looks good.
Only down side to the FC is that it lacks a bit of torque compared to the other drift cars. However, with the amount of power we can make on such a budget, we can make our torque just as much with more hp
most of all, cheap power
imo, it's one of the best, but it doesn't have the most desirable look to the average joe. You know, at first look, the FC did look pretty ugly to me. After a few years of playing with cars, i started loving the styling.
S chassis has the more newbie friendly look that anyone would think looks good.
Only down side to the FC is that it lacks a bit of torque compared to the other drift cars. However, with the amount of power we can make on such a budget, we can make our torque just as much with more hp
04-22-06, 01:55 AM
#3
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I kept the advantages of the FC3S (and FD3S) chassis a secret, cause it's what we use when we prep our 20B FC drift car. 
The guys who do drift the FC3S regularly should know these things also.
-Ted
The guys who do drift the FC3S regularly should know these things also.
-Ted
04-22-06, 01:58 AM
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if you really want a drift car, i highly suggest you get a ae86 or 240sx. they are about 10x times easier to handle going side ways then my FC. My car tends to wip out very rapidly when it slides out compared to my friends 240. took a lot more practice with my fc to get it down (a little) compared to a 240, yes the more practicing makes you better but a lot of the time when you practice you mess up, exspecially when you are a newb, and sometimes when you mess up you hit **** or brake ****. that means MONEY MONEY MONEY!
but ill pick my fc over any other car. I am glad i never got a 240, because i wanted one before i wanted an fc.
oh yah i feel my fc handles a lot better then my friends 240 when road racing. (similar suspension, but with a sr20), I kill him in the mountains and i have half his power but he always chances up in the straights
but ill pick my fc over any other car. I am glad i never got a 240, because i wanted one before i wanted an fc.
oh yah i feel my fc handles a lot better then my friends 240 when road racing. (similar suspension, but with a sr20), I kill him in the mountains and i have half his power but he always chances up in the straights
04-22-06, 02:01 AM
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^^^^
take out your rear sway bar. It'll be more controllable and not whip out so fast
240 is a hunk of ****. I had one before the FC, i hated the way it handled. It was like i was driving a lump of wet log. There's too much of that glue like **** they used on the seams. Like the hood. I took off the bolts to the hinges, it was still functional like before. I had to take a hammer to chip the glue **** off before the hood would come off
take out your rear sway bar. It'll be more controllable and not whip out so fast
240 is a hunk of ****. I had one before the FC, i hated the way it handled. It was like i was driving a lump of wet log. There's too much of that glue like **** they used on the seams. Like the hood. I took off the bolts to the hinges, it was still functional like before. I had to take a hammer to chip the glue **** off before the hood would come off
04-22-06, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by k1n0y
if you really want a drift car, i highly suggest you get a ae86 or 240sx...
Guess I better get crackin'. I have to solve all of RETed's mysteries! It'll be like a treasure hunt! *Grabs keys*
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04-22-06, 03:35 AM
#8
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Here's a hint...
Low polar moment.
If you can get ahold of that vid with the two (?) FC's drifitng up and down this mountain road, I figured it out watching that vid.
These guys slide their FC's damn hard, and if you watch S13's / S14's / S15's at the same time, you'll see the difference...in the transition...
-Ted
Low polar moment.
If you can get ahold of that vid with the two (?) FC's drifitng up and down this mountain road, I figured it out watching that vid.
These guys slide their FC's damn hard, and if you watch S13's / S14's / S15's at the same time, you'll see the difference...in the transition...
-Ted
04-22-06, 04:35 AM
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Not weight distribution, polar moment. These are two completely different things, but the weight distribution can affect the polar moment.
Weight distribution is simply evening the weight out on an imaginary line that divides the car in half... front and back. Now that we understand this concept we can then look at polar moment. Lets say we have a 2000 lb. car. It has 50/50 weight distribution. 1000 on the front half and 1000 on the other. If the 1000 lbs is centralized towards the center of the car, it is going to have very low polar moment. If it is located on the tips of the car (like hanging weights off of the bumpers) it is going to have retardedly high polar moment.
Higher polar moment means that it is going to have much more inertia on the extreme ends. If you kick out the back end in a drift, it is going to snap out and the inertia from where the weight is located is going to be very hard to stop or control. If the car has low polar moment, the inertia will be much less and therefore much easier to control. The RX7's motor is mounted very low and very far back into the engine bay. (The car is, by definition, a front mid engine car as the motor is mounted behind the front struts.) The rest of the car is extremely balanced keeping the major mass of the chassis centralized without very much fat on the edges (What were they thinking about the back hatch glass) which makes it extremely nimble in corners, hence it's AMAZING handling ability. Unfortunately, what makes this car turn and drift so well is what makes it a little harder to drift for beginners. To break the back end loose (this excludes cars with modified suspensions) you have to do one of two things. Create enough lateral G's and power to break the adhesion limit of the tires or lift enough weight off of the back end of the car to create a loss of traction on the rear tires (basically trail braking). There are also other methods like using the handbrake to create a momentary loss of traction to set up an incredible high speed drift (like how those two FC's in the mountains were doing, just watch their hands when they drift.)
Now from personal experience, I have found that the FC and the FD are extrremely forgiving when traction is lost. The low polar moment helps let the driver contol the car with gas and brake input to bring the car back under control. If you REALLY screw up and bring it back so hard that it kicks out the other side you still have a chance to bring it back under control. Not so much with those reverse monoleaf suspension that Corvettes use for example. Once the back end kicks out twice it is usually over. (That or I just can't handle the domestic muscle properly.) But to me they are much harder to control with gas and brake adjustments. The point I am trying to make here is that the FC requires a little ***** to put out sideways and keep her there. It takes practice to keep a car sideways that is designed to pull straight again. Also, the low polar moment insures that the transitions from traction to drift are butter smooth, which helps with suspension pre-load and damping (basically it keeps the car from really swaying and taxing the suspension when it goes from traction to no traction, where as in a 240 the car starts to lean heavily then kicks out, unloading the suspension momentarily and causing unusual handling characteristics.) That car has a nice tendency to kick out and stay out which is why it is such a nice beginner car. The FC is harder to kick out in stock trim, but add power and a decent suspension/tire setup and BOOM, instant drift machine. At higher speeds and higher power levels the 240 will become unpredictable (unless flawlessly tuned correctly).Where as the FC will be much easier to control and keep sideways. It also allows for easier transitions from side to side because the polar moment is so low. When the car comes back to square and starts to kick out the other way, just apply some gas and it will continue it's trip very smoothly. This allows for easy control of drifts with the right foot. Using the brakes to load the front suspension (allowing weight to come off of the back) is also another cool trick, but this will kill your speed, this killing your awe inspiring high speed drift. This is also dangerous because it heats up the front tires. If you use this enough, you will start to have brake induced understeer on your hands, and trust me, this is no p[lace you want to be. The last trick is using the E-brake. Alot of people assume that this means turn sharply and yank the E-brake. Eventhough this caveman like approach does work, it can also be extremely unsafe. If you yank the E-brake and don't release it, you are going to create a very uncontrollable drift (compared to the other methods outlined above.) The other method involves pulling the Ebrake BEFORE you yank the steering wheel. This removes all traction from the rear wheel in a straight line (and produces large amounts of glorious smoke). Start to steer into the corner and the back end will come around. Apply copious amounts of gas, release the E-brake, let out on the clutch and you will find yourself in a glorious drift. This method is extremely effective in underpowered cars that have trouble breaking traction with throttle alone. (most FC's.... gotta hate the no torque thing.) The fact that these are slightly more involved than the usual press the gas and go is what makes it a little harder to drift the FC initially. You just gotta get the feel of the car. But once you do..... you are golden.
There are other kinds of methods I am sure I have forgotten, but these are just some basic guidelines. People that drift on a regular basis could provide more information for you. Also, for the love of god, don't do this on public streets.... and even more importantly, don't wreck any FC's in the process. (We don't care about 240's though).
Jesus I wrote alot. Sorry guys....
Hope that helped, and if I got anything wrong just tell me, I am tired, it is 5:30 a.m., I have a headache and I am running on fumes.
Peace!
Weight distribution is simply evening the weight out on an imaginary line that divides the car in half... front and back. Now that we understand this concept we can then look at polar moment. Lets say we have a 2000 lb. car. It has 50/50 weight distribution. 1000 on the front half and 1000 on the other. If the 1000 lbs is centralized towards the center of the car, it is going to have very low polar moment. If it is located on the tips of the car (like hanging weights off of the bumpers) it is going to have retardedly high polar moment.
Higher polar moment means that it is going to have much more inertia on the extreme ends. If you kick out the back end in a drift, it is going to snap out and the inertia from where the weight is located is going to be very hard to stop or control. If the car has low polar moment, the inertia will be much less and therefore much easier to control. The RX7's motor is mounted very low and very far back into the engine bay. (The car is, by definition, a front mid engine car as the motor is mounted behind the front struts.) The rest of the car is extremely balanced keeping the major mass of the chassis centralized without very much fat on the edges (What were they thinking about the back hatch glass) which makes it extremely nimble in corners, hence it's AMAZING handling ability. Unfortunately, what makes this car turn and drift so well is what makes it a little harder to drift for beginners. To break the back end loose (this excludes cars with modified suspensions) you have to do one of two things. Create enough lateral G's and power to break the adhesion limit of the tires or lift enough weight off of the back end of the car to create a loss of traction on the rear tires (basically trail braking). There are also other methods like using the handbrake to create a momentary loss of traction to set up an incredible high speed drift (like how those two FC's in the mountains were doing, just watch their hands when they drift.)
Now from personal experience, I have found that the FC and the FD are extrremely forgiving when traction is lost. The low polar moment helps let the driver contol the car with gas and brake input to bring the car back under control. If you REALLY screw up and bring it back so hard that it kicks out the other side you still have a chance to bring it back under control. Not so much with those reverse monoleaf suspension that Corvettes use for example. Once the back end kicks out twice it is usually over. (That or I just can't handle the domestic muscle properly.) But to me they are much harder to control with gas and brake adjustments. The point I am trying to make here is that the FC requires a little ***** to put out sideways and keep her there. It takes practice to keep a car sideways that is designed to pull straight again. Also, the low polar moment insures that the transitions from traction to drift are butter smooth, which helps with suspension pre-load and damping (basically it keeps the car from really swaying and taxing the suspension when it goes from traction to no traction, where as in a 240 the car starts to lean heavily then kicks out, unloading the suspension momentarily and causing unusual handling characteristics.) That car has a nice tendency to kick out and stay out which is why it is such a nice beginner car. The FC is harder to kick out in stock trim, but add power and a decent suspension/tire setup and BOOM, instant drift machine. At higher speeds and higher power levels the 240 will become unpredictable (unless flawlessly tuned correctly).Where as the FC will be much easier to control and keep sideways. It also allows for easier transitions from side to side because the polar moment is so low. When the car comes back to square and starts to kick out the other way, just apply some gas and it will continue it's trip very smoothly. This allows for easy control of drifts with the right foot
. Using the brakes to load the front suspension (allowing weight to come off of the back) is also another cool trick, but this will kill your speed, this killing your awe inspiring high speed drift. This is also dangerous because it heats up the front tires. If you use this enough, you will start to have brake induced understeer on your hands, and trust me, this is no p[lace you want to be. The last trick is using the E-brake. Alot of people assume that this means turn sharply and yank the E-brake. Eventhough this caveman like approach does work, it can also be extremely unsafe. If you yank the E-brake and don't release it, you are going to create a very uncontrollable drift (compared to the other methods outlined above.) The other method involves pulling the Ebrake BEFORE you yank the steering wheel. This removes all traction from the rear wheel in a straight line (and produces large amounts of glorious smoke). Start to steer into the corner and the back end will come around. Apply copious amounts of gas, release the E-brake, let out on the clutch and you will find yourself in a glorious drift. This method is extremely effective in underpowered cars that have trouble breaking traction with throttle alone. (most FC's.... gotta hate the no torque thing.) The fact that these are slightly more involved than the usual press the gas and go is what makes it a little harder to drift the FC initially. You just gotta get the feel of the car. But once you do..... you are golden.There are other kinds of methods I am sure I have forgotten, but these are just some basic guidelines. People that drift on a regular basis could provide more information for you. Also, for the love of god, don't do this on public streets.... and even more importantly, don't wreck any FC's in the process. (We don't care about 240's though).
Jesus I wrote alot. Sorry guys....
Hope that helped, and if I got anything wrong just tell me, I am tired, it is 5:30 a.m., I have a headache and I am running on fumes.
Peace!
Last edited by Boostmaniac; 04-22-06 at 04:54 AM.
04-22-06, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Boostmaniac
Jesus I wrote alot. Sorry guys....
You're giving away all the secrets!
People, save this **** and reread it!
There's so much valuable info in that one post, it should be criminal that it was posted voluntarily for free!!!
-Ted
04-22-06, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by RETed
Dude!
You're giving away all the secrets!
People, save this **** and reread it!
There's so much valuable info in that one post, it should be criminal that it was posted voluntarily for free!!!
-Ted
You're giving away all the secrets!
People, save this **** and reread it!
There's so much valuable info in that one post, it should be criminal that it was posted voluntarily for free!!!
-Ted
Kudos on the very well written and uber detailed post. Even though it's stuff I already knew about, I appreciate how you put it in perspective.
04-22-06, 10:01 AM
#15
Wow, excellent post. I knew a lot of that, though not the details of why it worked. My car has a removed rear sway bat as someone suggested along with a good suspention setup. I find it quite easy to control and have never once had the rear pop back the other direction, unless I was trying to do that. I've never done a true drifting competition or anything, but I have messed around in abandoned parking lots. I could see how it would be excellent for drinfting with some practice.
04-22-06, 12:56 PM
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having been an AE86 Owner and now being an FC owner, I can say that personally, the AE86 has alot of potential, good little car, lotsa easy upgrades for it. downsides? Most of them are SR5's and converting it is a bitch.
the FC? Incredible car for drifting, it does have a tendancy to come out on you when you drift, but its not that incredibly hard to control. I've noticed most parts for the FC are more expensive.
AE86's and Fc's to me are both good cars. I like em both, and i'd equally use both. however the AE86 is most likely going to be harder to slide when you buy one, as they are significantly older and were an economy car, but tuning and upgrading options are BROAD.
Edit: Oh yeah, I've had experiences with the Nissan 240 SX as well. To me its not horribly bad, but I find it just a tad to mainstream for my tastes. not to mention its size is kinda cumbersome.
the FC? Incredible car for drifting, it does have a tendancy to come out on you when you drift, but its not that incredibly hard to control. I've noticed most parts for the FC are more expensive.
AE86's and Fc's to me are both good cars. I like em both, and i'd equally use both. however the AE86 is most likely going to be harder to slide when you buy one, as they are significantly older and were an economy car, but tuning and upgrading options are BROAD.
Edit: Oh yeah, I've had experiences with the Nissan 240 SX as well. To me its not horribly bad, but I find it just a tad to mainstream for my tastes. not to mention its size is kinda cumbersome.
Last edited by Tyblat; 04-22-06 at 12:57 PM. Reason: Adding info about 240
04-22-06, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by satanicmechanic
Anyone have that video? I'm curious to see it.
click here!
04-22-06, 01:47 PM
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04-22-06, 02:20 PM
#21
Originally Posted by GloryDays
this is it i believe... its funny cause all the elements described above are in this vid
click here!
click here!
04-22-06, 05:04 PM
#25
great thread.
Those vids are great, but they also have the help of gravity. Some of the clips looks like wet roads too(see sig)
I laugh my *** off @ all the other traffic honking and pulling to the side...
crazy japanese
|M|
Those vids are great, but they also have the help of gravity. Some of the clips looks like wet roads too(see sig)
I laugh my *** off @ all the other traffic honking and pulling to the side...
crazy japanese
|M|