Jarrett

Hello everyone, I recently became the proud owner of an '87
Mazda RX-7 non turbo. It was give to me by my aunt with a brand
new 13B motor straight from Mazda, installed. Only problem is,
its never started. I am a die hard Chevy mechanic, and I spend
many days and nights wrenching on old classic cars so I figured
I could get this car to start no problem. Boy was I mistaken.
This car defies logic. It has spark, I checked the leading and
trailing coils. So I assume the Crank angle sensor is working
too. I have also checked the crank angle sensor and re aligned
it several times. It has fuel (smells like tons of the stuff)
but it wont fire with either fuel of ether. Every time I pull
the plugs, they are doused in gasoline. I assume that I routed
the plug wires correctly. The motor has an "L" and "T" on it and
so I routed L1 plug to the front L and L2 plug to the back L and
same with the trailing ones. I am gonna try to disconnect the
fuel pump and crank the living heck out of the motor and see if
that solves the problem. If that doesnt work, does anyone else
have an idea?
:
I have managed to get it to fire by unplugging the fuel pump, and
cleaning the plugs and using ATF in the lower 2 cylinders, and
using starting fluid. But as soon as you reconnect the fuel pump
it wont fire. And when it does fire on ether, it runs terribly and only
runs for a few seconds. Could this be an injector problem??

:
Jarrett

Felix Wankel

Hey if you just pull the EGI INJ fuse under the hood, it will kill the fuel pump. Saves some hassle.

Do a search for ''deflooding'', and try that. You were on the right track with the ATF.

Jarrett

Sorry, its an 87.

Jarrett

I have researched for hours online about deflooding. I have tried the complex deflooding procedure for 4 hours. It will only cough, hack and sputter as long as the fuel pump is disconnected and I am using starting starting fluid. I have 2 sets of plugs, NGK as recommended. And like I said, it will run up to about 1000 rpm. This motor is brand new from Mazda, barely 6 months old.

Green

just idea, MAke sure they plugged your MAF right... Probably not your prob, But just make sure sounds like problem I had when I put in my engine hehe Spent 1 full day figuring out my MAF wasn't plugged in right =(

And checking compression is always good idea, Make sure they didn't give you a crap engine...

Cwaters

Has this motor ever run? Who put it in? If they had it running then you can look at some other things but if they never got it running, I hope your aunt didn't pay them!
Check the compression but it sounds like the injectors are your source...

Cory

XimbueX

You also might want to try putting in the plugs and everything, but pulling the fuel relay under the steering wheel, and crank it to see if it catches and runs for a few seconds. If it does, then just plug it back in and it should crank up and run.

SuperchargedRex

Definitely sounds like you're flooding; I had it happen twice. All I did was pull all 4 plugs out, and crank the motor a lot. Then, put a new set of plugs in and it fired up.

I've heard that some of the new motors are shipped with fluid in the chambers to protect them, that may have been the start of your problems.

Lastly, check the grounds. There's one on top of the block that if it comes loose, you're car won't run. (Had that happen too.)

Dragon

It's a very bad idea to use starting fluid on a rotory... very bad... bang=broken apex seal...

Ryde _Or_Die

You said it never ran?!? I hope that when Mazda installed the engine they cranked it up at least. I think the injectors could be a problem, but that still leads to the flooding problem. The "deflooding trick" is not complicated at all. You just pull the egi fuses, crank the engine to hell(at least I do), then put the fuses back in and crank it up. Don't give the car any gas when you are trying to start it.

Dragon

you can also pull the leading plugs prior to cranking it so it will blow the excess fuel out... check the coil wires and make sure they are on the right plugs too...

tmak26b

I hope you have the wires in the right way. If you look at it from the driver sider

This is

T1 T2
L1 L2

HAILERS

My favorite when I don't know what to do: Seeing as it does start to some extent with the starter fluid, get a volt/ohm meter and put the leads on your secondary injectors. Should read 2-3 ohms if you have a SOLENOID RESISTOR pack located just below your afm/air filter assy. Its silver in color and mounted with two bolts to the structure. One very large plug. Or how about pulling the top plugs and then putting a timing lite on one of the LEAD plugs and crank the engine with a fully charged battery. Possible that you can see how close your timing really is. Also try this method of setting the cas and timing by C. LUDWIG https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=29978 Also by hook or crook, get some oil in the rotor chambers. On the front of the dynamic chamber there are three hose, one above the other. One is larger than the others. Pour some oil into that line. It goes directly to the oil injectors and can/might feed some oil to the rotor chambers. Never done it myself, but seen it written on this site and makes sense. That'll give you some compression to start with. You got all your air ducts on????????? Hose etc??????????

Jarrett

Okay, let me try to answer the posts...First off, the MAP sensor? Would that be the one that sits in the airbox? Because I am running this car with the airbox disconnected in order to get starting fluid into it (which apparently I am not going to be doing anymore!!!). And as far as a compression check, I will probably do it. What I can gather is that my cousins (the guys that installed the engine, hence the reason I cant take it to anyone to have it done right), started it, then didnt have any water in the motor, so they had to shut it off before it was warm. I have learned that this is a big no-no for the 13B. Let me give you a little history. The motor is from Mazda. Put in by 2 of my drunk cousins about a year ago. Ran once and then they gave up (see previous). The car sat for about 11 months. I havent a clue as to what they could have done to this poor engine, but I have recently discovered that they went to the junkyard to get the injectors. Who Knows? If there is one thing I am learning, its that you need to be very clever to work on these bad boys..

I am gonna try to soak the rotors tonight via the large oil injection hose as per Hailers. Then try to make sure the timing is close, and reconnect the airbox (since I am not using starting fluid anymore). Then I am gonna check everything and crank it tomorrow. (after I check the ohms on the injectors). Wish me luck!

Jarrett

Dyre

The car wont run without the MAF sensor (grey box with flapper door on the bottom of the airbox).

It simply wont run if thats not plugged in.

Jarrett

Would grounding the initial set connector help? And I also just read the string on timing. Good tip on taking the top cover off, wish I would have thought of that. And lastly, is it feasably possible to put in the crank angle sensor 180 deg out? I notice that sometimes after I crank the motor, the dots come out lined up. Then some other times it comes out 180 deg out. It never mentions this anywhere so I assume that you cant install it wrong.

Jarrett

You are kidding!! It wont? For some reason I was under the impression that the car would initially fire without the MAF because of the "cold start sequence". That would be friggin cool if it works. I have the motor soaking in a little ATF right now and 2 sets of new NGK plugs waiting. Those mothers are EXPENSIVE! Thanks!!!! I will try it tomorrow after work. (My girlfriend made me promise that I had to keep my hands off the RX-7 for one night. If she knew I was chatting about it right now she would KILL me.)

Jarrett

Also, the MAF is plugged in, but the airbox is disconnected from the plenum.

ghebert

Hi Jarrett, Engine will not start if your Air Flow Metering valve is not plugged in. I also have 87 non-turbo and I replaced my engine my self here are some things that I learned from my job and I was by no means a engine mechanic let alone a rotary mechanic. But I did learn a couple of things that may help you. One is you should always clean and balance your injectors before you put them on a new engine. It will save you from second guessing when yhe engine won't start. Another thing that could happen is whoever put the car back together could have crossed the primary and secondary injector connectors? Secondary injectors are not used until you reach over 3000 rpm's. I'm not sure of the exact rpm over 3000 that thet are used. I'm sure someone will fill that in. Also check your fuel Pulsation Dampner for the screw being backed out. This leaks fuel and it restricts your fuel flow to your primary fuel rail injectors. This also gives you the same syptoms as being flooded. You can find a good pic of this PD valve by searching for Leaking Fuel or scrolling some of these threads. Let me know what you find. If you need anything else let me know. I've been working on getting my rebuilt going for 5 months and finally it runs smooooth!!!!!!Gary

mazdaspeed7

Rebuilt engines ALWAYS have very low compression until they are broken in. Get it to run by getting some 2 stroke oil into the chamber, then drive it for a while. After 100-150 miles, it should start on its own. And starting will continue to get easier, and the engine will get stronger throughout the break in process.

Felix Wankel

It will run with no airbox, as long as the AFM is plugged in, and there are no air leaks downstream of it.

rx7_ragtop

The MAF has to be plugged in and connected to the intake tract. The AIRBOX can be off, but not the MAF.

Sounds like a combination of that and severe flooding. Connect the MAF back and unflood it. You can tow it to start also.

Rebuilt engines are commonly hard to start until broken in... just FYI.

ghebert

One other thing Jarrett, you need to connect the intake hose to the plenium along with the Air flow meter. It senses air flow thru the valve to the plenium and the gate valve in the air flow meter is what controls your fuel pump/pressure for starting. I hope that's the only thing keeping it from starting for you. That would be real cool. pay attention to Mazdaspeeds advice. Helped me with my new engine hot starting problem. Gary

Jarrett

WOW! This is some cool sh*t! I never thought this car could be so complex. But I love a challenge. Okay, I am gonna check the Pulsation damper too, and do all that other stuff (re align the CAS, put the MAF back into the airflow, check the injectors, etc..) One more question. Is it possible to get the timing closer by:

1. removing the spark plugs
2. Putting an inductive timing light on L1
3. cranking the motor while shooting the light at the timing tab????

Seems to me that this might work. I am still trying to gain some understanding as to why you can rotate the CAS shaft mark 180 deg and the damn thing will still run. Does this have to do with the lack of valves in this car? It would make sense to me.