agathaf

Suggestions please?

My '88 Rx7 purchased in '98 at 78K has been serviced at two Dealers and now at 126K I am presented with the following challenge -
Sept 29 car won't go into gear and start after a few weeks of slipping out of gear. Service Advisor had put clutch on my list of next repairs so I expected this to be the problem.

The service manager tells me after inspection that the Air filter was so "dirty" that it caused a meltdown of the air flow system, valves etc and it will cost 1800 just to repair the Air system. Then maybe they can start the car and diagnose the clutch. BUT there is no guarantee the engine has not been damaged by the air system problem.

My anger is that both Dealers have performed numerous oil changes and service maintenance and not once did they suggest (a) it is time to change the air filter or (b) the mileage on the car since you purchased would suggest changing since you do not know when it was changed before purchase or (c) ANYTHING to suggest that they had done due diligence in staying on top of routine maintenance service recommednations.

Instead of those alternatives after servicing the car for 30K miles one dealer says it looked ok when we checked it last (at the 30K mark of their servicing).

The other dealer says " we only check the air filter on scheduled maintenance and you have only had it here for emergency repairs and oil changes so we had no reason to check the air filter". That from a dealer where I asked for a check because I thought it was indicating over heating!!!

So, what do you think? I know my way around the inside to check my oil and fluids but is it unreasonable to have expected the Dealer to give a heads up on the air filter if they have been the exclusive service provider on the car over a four year period?

I am angry to be forced into a "car payment", ugh for anything other than another RX7 - was planning on keeping the '88 until the 2003 RX8....

I've called a mechanic who towed the car and is an RX7 former owner and reported the diagnosis but he did not respond as if anything sounded amiss? Any suggestions?

kep0ne

sounds like a bunch of dealer BS to me. im not sure what could be causing your problem, but if its related to the "air flow system", you can fix it yourself for less than 1800, thats for sure.

incendui

wow. that just sounds wrong. if your air filter was dirty, your car would run poorly, but i cant see how anything would meltdown. go to a different shop, preferably not a dealer. if you just need the clutch replaced, any decent import place should be able to do it.

SaabGuy

I went to a mazda dealer to buy parts and the guy behind the counter said, is that four cylinder turbo or nonturbo? I said, its got DOHC baby.

schexy1

Ask him to show you the valves and explain how they work in a valveless car. A dirty air filter will restrict air flow going into the engine resyulting in slow throttle response, possibly dirt in the engine. the only thing that will melt down is you credit card when you place in the hot hand of the devil(service manager) who is robbing you.

If you break down his statement it really says:
I don't know what is wrong with your car but give me alot of money and I will replace everything I can and hopefully while I am fishing for a repair I can catch the right one and your car will be fixed. But if the right repair isn't biting that day, thanks for the money.

schexy1

Ask him to show you the valves and explain how they work in a valveless car. A dirty air filter will restrict air flow going into the engine resyulting in slow throttle response, possibly dirt in the engine. the only thing that will melt down is you credit card when you place in the hot hand of the devil (service manager) who is robbing you.

If you break down his statement it really says:
I don't know what is wrong with your car but give me alot of money and I will replace everything I can and hopefully while I am fishing for a repair I can catch the right one and your car will be fixed. But if the right repair isn't biting that day, thanks for the money.

Icemark

My feeling is probably the opposite of what everyone else is saying...

But I say its your car. Why didn't you check it??? Why didn't you make sure the 90K mile service and the 120K mile service was performed???

You owned the car for 48K miles... the filter should be changed at least at every 30k miles and if you ae using the stock air filter really every 15k miles.

sorry if I am being a dick, but you are the owner... not the dealer.

Rotorific

iTrader: (1)

I never go to dealers all they do is dick you out of money you dont need to spend... go to a rotary mechanic or atleast find someone that knows what they are talking about.... dont learn about your car the hard way

Scott 89t2

an oil change has nothing to do with the air filter. nor is checking for overheating...

it is changed in a "tune up" if you took it for one and they didn't change it. then you can agure. but a dirty one isn't gona cause anything but a slower car.

NZConvertible

Lesson #1: Mazda dealers wouldn't know a rotary engine if one fell on them.

Lesson #2: Cars need regular servicing, which means replacing (not just checking) things like air filters. You can save yourself a lot of money by performing these simple tasks yourself. At least then you know it's been done...

Lesson #3: If your car has a particular problem, then a hundred others on this forum have experienced (and probably solved) the exact same problem! Give us a detailed description of all the symptoms of your problem, then check back often to answer any questions and try any suggested solutions. If that fails go to a real rotary mechanic (which rules out Mazda dealers).

"The Air filter was so dirty that it caused a meltdown of the air flow system, valves etc and it will cost 1800 just to repair the air system" has got to be the funniest **** I've ever heard.

Good luck!

jburger

agathaf-

First things first. When you say the car slips out of gear, I assume you mean this happens while you are driving. Is it while you are on the gas, or when you are sitting still with the clutch pedal pressed?

Second. You say the car won't go into gear. Does it grind, or oes it feel like it is in gear, but when you hit the gas the car doesn't move?

Third. Does the engine seem to run ok? When started and in neutral, does it rev up when you tap the gas? If so, there is no air filter induced damage. Changine the air filter is an easy job and is very unlikely to have caysed any damage if dirty.


A little more info and I'm sure we can help you get to the root of the problem and avoid being taken to the cleaners.

J

agathaf

Thanks all this forum is the greatest, kindred spirits in this time of trial.
Lesson #1 from now on I talk to the guys and get some feedback and be determined to use a reliable Rotary engine mechanic. The AAA Towing service mechanic that moved the car to the Dealer is a former RX7 owner and we talked repairs the entire trip so I have found someone who know the engine.

Lesson #2 Get a repair manual so I can learn what's where under the hood and how much can be done without being on a lift at the shop.

BUT FOR NOW the big question is have you heard enough about the Dealer's failure to "suggest the air filter needing changing" for me to challenge them as negligent? Remember this is not idle review I am driving a rental the car is at the Dealer and I need a plan of action before I face them.

Options: 1- challenge them publicly to expose this slip shod practice to warn other car owners. Demanding they the repair the car and pick up rental expense?-Only at this point I don't trust them to do anything!
2-accept the diagnosis that my car is totaled and allow them to trade me into another car, ugh
3- take the car from them and slowly repair it myself with the assist of mechanic who talked RX7 repair with me while driving to the Dealer.

What would you do?
A

SureShot

Option 3 ...

jburger

Option 3-

If you get the dealer to say they'll fix it for free, they'll tell you something else is wrong that was unrelated that cost a lot to fix. Watch out!

agathaf

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jburger
[B]

agathaf-

First things first. When you say the car slips out of gear, I assume you mean this happens while you are driving. Is it while you are on the gas, or when you are sitting still with the clutch pedal pressed?

******
YES, while sitting still with the clutch pedal pressed.
****

Second. You say the car won't go into gear. Does it grind, or oes it feel like it is in gear, but when you hit the gas the car doesn't move?

********
THIS QUESTION takes me back to the morning it would not start and it seemed difficult to get into gear and Yes it would not move even when I hit the gas. WOW this is the kind of dialogue I naively expected at the Dealership not a death knell. Thanks, J

*********

Third. Does the engine seem to run ok? When started and in neutral, does it rev up when you tap the gas? If so, there is no air filter induced damage. Changine the air filter is an easy job and is very unlikely to have caysed any damage if dirty.

*********
Yes until that morning the engine rev ok. So your answer as to action plan would be take the car back from the dealer and slowly start to diagnosis and repair on my own? It sure fits my sense of regaining control and as the days have passed and I contemplate the alternative of driving anything else. . . Now I just had a thought maybe I will let them give me a truck which is the only acceptable other car I would consider for business (delivering air purification systems to clients to try before we design a full system for their business) and then I would not be under pressure to get my "pleasure" vehicle repaired"yesterday".
*********

A little more info and I'm sure we can help you get to the root of the problem and avoid being taken to the cleaners.

****
THANKS again this has been such a comfort. When I heard the disdain in the Service Manager's voice as he told me the air filter was dirty he sounded incredulous that I could let my filter get that dirty as if it was typical of a women driver not to be attentive to her car. I told him of my reaction to his voice and he said the contrary because each time we talked I asked what to be on the look out for future problems and recounted the list of suggested repairs had been given from previous service and the clutch was the last item not yet replaced, which is what I expected had finally given out.

A

J [B][I]

agathaf

So the plan seems to be get my car away from those "..." and star to diagnosis and repair myself. Accept the best deal for a replacement work truck - no frills - high cost passenger sedan and walk away from the problem. BUT I am still tempted to expose the service behavior. Ironically while my car was parked in front of my apartment manager's office the license tag was stolen. The police officer who came to file the report explained how the tags are switched for stolen cars etc. BUT he also, on hearing my tale of Dealer woe, gave me the name of the consumer advocate for a local TV station. Now isn't that a coincidence!!!! Oh the temptation. However, just sharing on this forum has been cathartic it doesn't take rocket science to deduce my location in Florida there are only two dealers and both are in on this story!

incendui

your clutch problem almost sounds like a hydraulic issue, not a bad clutch. the clutch master cylinder and slave cylinder like to leak, and if you lose pressue you wont be able to get it into or out of gear. if your clutch is just worn, it should be slipping more when youre driving.

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

First, there probably is some merit to what the dealer is saying. I've seen cheapie air filters melt at the rubber seal around the filter, and the rubber goo gets caught up in the airflow meter and makes it stick. This is very likely the case. If so, buy a used airflow meter for $20-50, get a good quality filter, and rock and roll.

New airflow meters ain't cheap - I don't think it's as high as they're quoting, but it's at least $800 or some crap. The good thing is they're quite hardy and usually REALLY easy to find used and in good working order.

Dale

eViLRotor

iTrader: (2)

The bad thing is that these same Yahoos are going to be working on the RX-8 when it comes out.

Something tells me there are going to be a lot of unhappy Mazda customers when it comes to maintenance/repair time.

Scott 89t2

haha, I remember those pics of nodes. I never could figure out what the hell it was.

GatorRX

Yup, I agree, happens a lot with the original filter when you leave it on for a zillion miles. The rubber melts, gets sucked in, and goos up the flapper door in the AFM. No moving flapper door, the motor runs like crap. I've seen it on quite a few 7s, including the one I have now. You CANNOT adequately clean this gunk out of the AFM, you need a new one, they should be less than $50 at the junkyard.

The dealer isn't BS'ing you, but he is charging you dealer prices to fix this. Take your car to a good rotary mechanic, most of the good RX-7 trained techs at the dealers left to open their own shops long ago, anyway.

MaxRX7

just replace your AFM (air flow meter) and put in a new air filter

Brian P

ask to see the air filter