87' TII Emissions Delete Question
08-05-21, 06:58 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
87' TII Emissions Delete Question
Hi all,
I bought a TII about a year ago and having an absolute BLAST with it. everything runs the way it should. I did get a full Racing Beat exhaust since the OEM exhaust was rotting away and also put a new set of Coilovers on them.
I am now planning to do an emissions delete on my FC. I've already ordered the Block Off Plates, Oil Catch Can as well as a Dual Pulley all of Banzai Racing. Couple of questions I had...
1) Is there anything else I need to upgrade?
2) Will there be a difference in the performance?
3) Clarification on the 5th and 6th Actuator (am I going to lose power?)
4) Do I really need to block off the Split-Air? If so, do I need to run an additional line somewhere?
***I am NOT using the BAC block off plate in the kit. I've read in a lot of forums that deleting the BAC is a stupid thing to do***
MUCH appreciate it!
I bought a TII about a year ago and having an absolute BLAST with it. everything runs the way it should. I did get a full Racing Beat exhaust since the OEM exhaust was rotting away and also put a new set of Coilovers on them.
I am now planning to do an emissions delete on my FC. I've already ordered the Block Off Plates, Oil Catch Can as well as a Dual Pulley all of Banzai Racing. Couple of questions I had...
1) Is there anything else I need to upgrade?
2) Will there be a difference in the performance?
3) Clarification on the 5th and 6th Actuator (am I going to lose power?)
4) Do I really need to block off the Split-Air? If so, do I need to run an additional line somewhere?
***I am NOT using the BAC block off plate in the kit. I've read in a lot of forums that deleting the BAC is a stupid thing to do***
MUCH appreciate it!
08-05-21, 07:34 PM
#2
Rotary Freak
1) Is there anything else I need to upgrade?
2) Will there be a difference in the performance?
3) Clarification on the 5th and 6th Actuator (am I going to lose power?)
4) Do I really need to block off the Split-Air? If so, do I need to run an additional line somewhere?
***I am NOT using the BAC block off plate in the kit. I've read in a lot of forums that deleting the BAC is a stupid thing to do***
2) Will there be a difference in the performance?
3) Clarification on the 5th and 6th Actuator (am I going to lose power?)
4) Do I really need to block off the Split-Air? If so, do I need to run an additional line somewhere?
***I am NOT using the BAC block off plate in the kit. I've read in a lot of forums that deleting the BAC is a stupid thing to do***
2. Not from the emissions delete. But if you do the above, than possibly since it will take care of any vacuum leaks or dirty injectors. This is unlikely because you said the car is running well. The emissions delete helps keep things simple and reduce the things that could go bad.
3. No. Your car is a T2 and therefore does not have these actuators. They're only on NA engines.
4. If you mean the tube running to the cat, you shouldn't have one because you have the Racing Beat exhaust (and therefore no cat). In case you're referring to the air pump, acv, or the air silencer: The ACV should be blocked off and the air pump serves no purpose without the cat. The silencer doesn't hurt anything but can be removed once the air pump is gone.
Last note, with no air pump you should run a dual pulley on your alternator to prevent water pump slippage.
And good idea keeping the BAC valve. Bad idea to remove that on anything but a racecar (especially because it offers zero gains other than a few grams of weight).
Good luck!
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Mattyrockzxd (08-05-21)
08-05-21, 07:52 PM
#3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
1. No. But since you'll have the intakes off its a good time to replace any vacuum lines (well, anything left after emissions deletion), fuel lines, have injectors serviced, etc. Just stuff that's hard to access with the intakes on. You can also replace the fuel pulsation damper (helps prevent it burning your car down) or go to an aftermarket regulator with the damper integrated.
2. Not from the emissions delete. But if you do the above, than possibly since it will take care of any vacuum leaks or dirty injectors. This is unlikely because you said the car is running well. The emissions delete helps keep things simple and reduce the things that could go bad.
3. No. Your car is a T2 and therefore does not have these actuators. They're only on NA engines.
4. If you mean the tube running to the cat, you shouldn't have one because you have the Racing Beat exhaust (and therefore no cat). In case you're referring to the air pump, acv, or the air silencer: The ACV should be blocked off and the air pump serves no purpose without the cat. The silencer doesn't hurt anything but can be removed once the air pump is gone.
Last note, with no air pump you should run a dual pulley on your alternator to prevent water pump slippage.
And good idea keeping the BAC valve. Bad idea to remove that on anything but a racecar (especially because it offers zero gains other than a few grams of weight).
Good luck!
2. Not from the emissions delete. But if you do the above, than possibly since it will take care of any vacuum leaks or dirty injectors. This is unlikely because you said the car is running well. The emissions delete helps keep things simple and reduce the things that could go bad.
3. No. Your car is a T2 and therefore does not have these actuators. They're only on NA engines.
4. If you mean the tube running to the cat, you shouldn't have one because you have the Racing Beat exhaust (and therefore no cat). In case you're referring to the air pump, acv, or the air silencer: The ACV should be blocked off and the air pump serves no purpose without the cat. The silencer doesn't hurt anything but can be removed once the air pump is gone.
Last note, with no air pump you should run a dual pulley on your alternator to prevent water pump slippage.
And good idea keeping the BAC valve. Bad idea to remove that on anything but a racecar (especially because it offers zero gains other than a few grams of weight).
Good luck!
08-05-21, 08:04 PM
#4
Rotary Freak
The damper is there to dampen the pressure pulses in the fuel rail. Aftermarket pressure regulators integrate this function but the stock Mazda one doesn't (or at least, Mazda felt like they needed another). The dampers can leak (without warning) and fuel dribbles down onto your hot exhaust, which can cause a fire. This is why replacing it with new is a good idea.
Your options are the original Mazda part (not even sure if aftermarket dampers are made, never looked for them) or a block off banjo bolt for the OEM damper and upgrading to an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator which includes the damper.
I would strongly advise against just blocking it off as some people do. In theory this can cause transient lean / rich mixture spikes and could cause you to lean out and detonate on a turbo model.
Has it ever happened to someone conclusively? No idea. But when you weigh the possible consequences of that mod against the $150 or whatever you save, it just isn't worth it. It is worth it (IMO) on NA models like mine where a transient lean spike won't have any effect.
I also would not just get an aftermarket FPD. If they exist, I would worry about the quality compared to an OEM Mazda part. And since we're comparing to an OEM Mazda part that can set your engine on fire, you can see why I would be worried about a possibly worse aftermarket part.
The aftermarket fuel pressure regulators are at least proven if you buy a reputable brand. And you could even make AN lines and locate it somewhere on the firewall so it doesn't leak down onto the exhaust, if it were to fail in that manner.
What you do is up to you as always. But I highly recommend either OEM replacement or a full aftermarket fuel pressure regulator conversion.
08-05-21, 08:19 PM
#5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
This is its own little rabbit-hole, so the following is some fact mixed with my personal opinion:
The damper is there to dampen the pressure pulses in the fuel rail. Aftermarket pressure regulators integrate this function but the stock Mazda one doesn't (or at least, Mazda felt like they needed another). The dampers can leak (without warning) and fuel dribbles down onto your hot exhaust, which can cause a fire. This is why replacing it with new is a good idea.
Your options are the original Mazda part (not even sure if aftermarket dampers are made, never looked for them) or a block off banjo bolt for the OEM damper and upgrading to an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator which includes the damper.
I would strongly advise against just blocking it off as some people do. In theory this can cause transient lean / rich mixture spikes and could cause you to lean out and detonate on a turbo model.
Has it ever happened to someone conclusively? No idea. But when you weigh the possible consequences of that mod against the $150 or whatever you save, it just isn't worth it. It is worth it (IMO) on NA models like mine where a transient lean spike won't have any effect.
I also would not just get an aftermarket FPD. If they exist, I would worry about the quality compared to an OEM Mazda part. And since we're comparing to an OEM Mazda part that can set your engine on fire, you can see why I would be worried about a possibly worse aftermarket part.
The aftermarket fuel pressure regulators are at least proven if you buy a reputable brand. And you could even make AN lines and locate it somewhere on the firewall so it doesn't leak down onto the exhaust, if it were to fail in that manner.
What you do is up to you as always. But I highly recommend either OEM replacement or a full aftermarket fuel pressure regulator conversion.
The damper is there to dampen the pressure pulses in the fuel rail. Aftermarket pressure regulators integrate this function but the stock Mazda one doesn't (or at least, Mazda felt like they needed another). The dampers can leak (without warning) and fuel dribbles down onto your hot exhaust, which can cause a fire. This is why replacing it with new is a good idea.
Your options are the original Mazda part (not even sure if aftermarket dampers are made, never looked for them) or a block off banjo bolt for the OEM damper and upgrading to an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator which includes the damper.
I would strongly advise against just blocking it off as some people do. In theory this can cause transient lean / rich mixture spikes and could cause you to lean out and detonate on a turbo model.
Has it ever happened to someone conclusively? No idea. But when you weigh the possible consequences of that mod against the $150 or whatever you save, it just isn't worth it. It is worth it (IMO) on NA models like mine where a transient lean spike won't have any effect.
I also would not just get an aftermarket FPD. If they exist, I would worry about the quality compared to an OEM Mazda part. And since we're comparing to an OEM Mazda part that can set your engine on fire, you can see why I would be worried about a possibly worse aftermarket part.
The aftermarket fuel pressure regulators are at least proven if you buy a reputable brand. And you could even make AN lines and locate it somewhere on the firewall so it doesn't leak down onto the exhaust, if it were to fail in that manner.
What you do is up to you as always. But I highly recommend either OEM replacement or a full aftermarket fuel pressure regulator conversion.
08-05-21, 08:31 PM
#6
Rotary Freak
I wouldn't worry about replacing the injectors, I'd just have them cleaned. A few years ago I had them done for $90 locally and it included a full flow test. If your injectors don't pass the test after cleaning then it's a good idea to replace. The injector connectors can also get crumbly from heat so make sure to inspect them thoroughly. If they're good, don't worry about it.
The fuel filter is like $10 or something, so I'd replace it. I wouldn't worry too much about aftermarket for that, it's hard to screw up a fuel filter.
For the vacuum lines you can get one of those Amazon kits that has all new silicone lines (in different colours if that's your sort of thing) for very little. They last longer than rubber and don't decompose into black dust. One of those kits I bought years ago had every line I've needed, from the little ones on the vacuum spider to bigger ones for the catch-can to the biggest one for the brake booster. Last vacuum hose I ever bought.
Also, I'd inspect your oil metering pump lines. If there are no cracks or leaks then don't worry about them but often the heat turns them brittle. If your OMP is leaking, you can get a cheap rebuild kit and rebuild it in an hour (if yours is an 86-88 model) but otherwise it should be fine.
That should cover most of the common problems. The biggest factor now with these cars is their age, so if you find anything crumbly it's a good time to investigate. The design itself is fairly solid.
08-06-21, 07:51 AM
#7
Junior Member
Thread Starter
No problem, glad I could help
I wouldn't worry about replacing the injectors, I'd just have them cleaned. A few years ago I had them done for $90 locally and it included a full flow test. If your injectors don't pass the test after cleaning then it's a good idea to replace. The injector connectors can also get crumbly from heat so make sure to inspect them thoroughly. If they're good, don't worry about it.
The fuel filter is like $10 or something, so I'd replace it. I wouldn't worry too much about aftermarket for that, it's hard to screw up a fuel filter.
For the vacuum lines you can get one of those Amazon kits that has all new silicone lines (in different colours if that's your sort of thing) for very little. They last longer than rubber and don't decompose into black dust. One of those kits I bought years ago had every line I've needed, from the little ones on the vacuum spider to bigger ones for the catch-can to the biggest one for the brake booster. Last vacuum hose I ever bought.
Also, I'd inspect your oil metering pump lines. If there are no cracks or leaks then don't worry about them but often the heat turns them brittle. If your OMP is leaking, you can get a cheap rebuild kit and rebuild it in an hour (if yours is an 86-88 model) but otherwise it should be fine.
That should cover most of the common problems. The biggest factor now with these cars is their age, so if you find anything crumbly it's a good time to investigate. The design itself is fairly solid.
I wouldn't worry about replacing the injectors, I'd just have them cleaned. A few years ago I had them done for $90 locally and it included a full flow test. If your injectors don't pass the test after cleaning then it's a good idea to replace. The injector connectors can also get crumbly from heat so make sure to inspect them thoroughly. If they're good, don't worry about it.
The fuel filter is like $10 or something, so I'd replace it. I wouldn't worry too much about aftermarket for that, it's hard to screw up a fuel filter.
For the vacuum lines you can get one of those Amazon kits that has all new silicone lines (in different colours if that's your sort of thing) for very little. They last longer than rubber and don't decompose into black dust. One of those kits I bought years ago had every line I've needed, from the little ones on the vacuum spider to bigger ones for the catch-can to the biggest one for the brake booster. Last vacuum hose I ever bought.
Also, I'd inspect your oil metering pump lines. If there are no cracks or leaks then don't worry about them but often the heat turns them brittle. If your OMP is leaking, you can get a cheap rebuild kit and rebuild it in an hour (if yours is an 86-88 model) but otherwise it should be fine.
That should cover most of the common problems. The biggest factor now with these cars is their age, so if you find anything crumbly it's a good time to investigate. The design itself is fairly solid.
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08-06-21, 07:58 AM
#8
Rotary Freak
I highly recommend keeping the pump. When you let off the throttle and engine brake the injectors stop spraying, but your engine is still spinning. This means no lubrication to the apex seals if you're premixing because the oil is in the fuel. On an aftermarket ECU you could always keep them spraying a little on decel to avoid this, but not on the stock ECU.
And while premixing a little for insurance is fine (I do it myself) there's really no compelling reason to remove the OMP in my opinion. Contrary to popular claims the stock system works fine. Modern motor oils are ashless and therefore don't leave significant carbon like older oils. You should do your own background research on this and make a decision, but that's mine. Much like the BAC deletion, I think it should be a racecar only mod.
08-06-21, 08:19 AM
#9
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08-06-21, 08:39 AM
#10
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Do you have a series 4 (86-88) or series 5 (89-91) car? If the S4 pump is not leaking, it's working. If the S5 pump is not throwing a code or leaking, it's working.
I highly recommend keeping the pump. When you let off the throttle and engine brake the injectors stop spraying, but your engine is still spinning. This means no lubrication to the apex seals if you're premixing because the oil is in the fuel. On an aftermarket ECU you could always keep them spraying a little on decel to avoid this, but not on the stock ECU.
And while premixing a little for insurance is fine (I do it myself) there's really no compelling reason to remove the OMP in my opinion. Contrary to popular claims the stock system works fine. Modern motor oils are ashless and therefore don't leave significant carbon like older oils. You should do your own background research on this and make a decision, but that's mine. Much like the BAC deletion, I think it should be a racecar only mod.
I highly recommend keeping the pump. When you let off the throttle and engine brake the injectors stop spraying, but your engine is still spinning. This means no lubrication to the apex seals if you're premixing because the oil is in the fuel. On an aftermarket ECU you could always keep them spraying a little on decel to avoid this, but not on the stock ECU.
And while premixing a little for insurance is fine (I do it myself) there's really no compelling reason to remove the OMP in my opinion. Contrary to popular claims the stock system works fine. Modern motor oils are ashless and therefore don't leave significant carbon like older oils. You should do your own background research on this and make a decision, but that's mine. Much like the BAC deletion, I think it should be a racecar only mod.
Gotcha. I have a S4 TII. Ill do more research and weigh my options
08-06-21, 08:40 AM
#11
Full Member
Hi all,
I bought a TII about a year ago and having an absolute BLAST with it. everything runs the way it should. I did get a full Racing Beat exhaust since the OEM exhaust was rotting away and also put a new set of Coilovers on them.
I am now planning to do an emissions delete on my FC. I've already ordered the Block Off Plates, Oil Catch Can as well as a Dual Pulley all of Banzai Racing. Couple of questions I had...
1) Is there anything else I need to upgrade?
2) Will there be a difference in the performance?
3) Clarification on the 5th and 6th Actuator (am I going to lose power?)
4) Do I really need to block off the Split-Air? If so, do I need to run an additional line somewhere?
***I am NOT using the BAC block off plate in the kit. I've read in a lot of forums that deleting the BAC is a stupid thing to do***
MUCH appreciate it!
I bought a TII about a year ago and having an absolute BLAST with it. everything runs the way it should. I did get a full Racing Beat exhaust since the OEM exhaust was rotting away and also put a new set of Coilovers on them.
I am now planning to do an emissions delete on my FC. I've already ordered the Block Off Plates, Oil Catch Can as well as a Dual Pulley all of Banzai Racing. Couple of questions I had...
1) Is there anything else I need to upgrade?
2) Will there be a difference in the performance?
3) Clarification on the 5th and 6th Actuator (am I going to lose power?)
4) Do I really need to block off the Split-Air? If so, do I need to run an additional line somewhere?
***I am NOT using the BAC block off plate in the kit. I've read in a lot of forums that deleting the BAC is a stupid thing to do***
MUCH appreciate it!
Question, you mentioned adding the RB full exhaust. I was curious which route you went to safe guard against overboosting running lean with that setup?
Assuming you are running the RB RevII.
Last edited by rotary_fan; 08-06-21 at 08:45 AM.
08-09-21, 08:32 AM
#12
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Hey, yes I am running the RevII. To be honest, I took off the old exhaust and just bolted on the RevII. I didn't do anything else and it's been running great. It's been on for about a year now.
08-10-21, 08:43 PM
#13
Full Member
So I’ve been freaked out about this and so I’ve just been staying out a boost until I figure it out. Is your car completely stock other than the revII, no intake?
09-04-21, 05:52 PM
#14
Junior Member
Thread Starter
oh wow that’s great, I had the same situation and had to buy an exhaust, went with the revII but I got hung up on everything everyone saying : “ you gotta get a fcd” or you’ll blow your engine. Which lead me to you gotta port your s4 turbo wastegate to control the overboosting or you’ll blow your engine.... all because of the higher flowing exhaust.
So I’ve been freaked out about this and so I’ve just been staying out a boost until I figure it out. Is your car completely stock other than the revII, no intake?
So I’ve been freaked out about this and so I’ve just been staying out a boost until I figure it out. Is your car completely stock other than the revII, no intake?
09-04-21, 06:02 PM
#15
Junior Member
Thread Starter
**Emissions Delete Completed**
**Update**
She is running like a CHAMP. it might be the placebo effect but I do feel like she runs much better now than with the vacuum rack on. Throttle response is better and overall it seems like she just wants to take off.
A few things I wish I knew before starting:
1) There is a coolant hose underneath the UIM. The clamps on there were stuck like **** to a diaper. I had to cut it, causing me to spill coolant all over my irons.
2) I followed a diagram a user made back in 2014. It's on this forum and it's easy to find with a Google Search.
3) When getting a catch can, opt for the smaller one. I ordered a large one from Mishimoto, but there was nowhere in the engine bay that I can mount it that made it look "aesthetically pleasing"
4) Once the vacuum rack is off, there is an oil return line from the turbo. It is welded in with another line. I ordered a steel braided line to clean it up better.
5) There are a ton of bolts and I mean a TON. I ended up using little baggies to separate them.
6) The clutch fan is near impossible to get off. If yours is like mine, cut the air pump line (you're deleting it so you won't need it). Loosen the nut to the AC pump and feed the new lines in slowly.
I had days where I almost completely gave up and days where everything was going right. At the end of it I had a BLAST taking everything apart and learning the ins and outs of a rotary. Please feel free to ask me any questions!
She is running like a CHAMP. it might be the placebo effect but I do feel like she runs much better now than with the vacuum rack on. Throttle response is better and overall it seems like she just wants to take off.
A few things I wish I knew before starting:
1) There is a coolant hose underneath the UIM. The clamps on there were stuck like **** to a diaper. I had to cut it, causing me to spill coolant all over my irons.
2) I followed a diagram a user made back in 2014. It's on this forum and it's easy to find with a Google Search.
3) When getting a catch can, opt for the smaller one. I ordered a large one from Mishimoto, but there was nowhere in the engine bay that I can mount it that made it look "aesthetically pleasing"
4) Once the vacuum rack is off, there is an oil return line from the turbo. It is welded in with another line. I ordered a steel braided line to clean it up better.
5) There are a ton of bolts and I mean a TON. I ended up using little baggies to separate them.
6) The clutch fan is near impossible to get off. If yours is like mine, cut the air pump line (you're deleting it so you won't need it). Loosen the nut to the AC pump and feed the new lines in slowly.
I had days where I almost completely gave up and days where everything was going right. At the end of it I had a BLAST taking everything apart and learning the ins and outs of a rotary. Please feel free to ask me any questions!
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