flubyux2

heres the idea i was toying around with:

Series 4 NA motor,
-street port
-89+ rotors
-3mm seals
-AIR operated 6pi
-GReddy turbo kit
-GReddy FMIC kit

but, what if i want to run 1 BAR boost or more, what do i need to change on the engine to handle that boost?

i figured, id get another 86-88, but a GTU/GTUs this time...not a SE. i dont like the body style, but id rahter have a mechanical OMP, i hear they are more reliable.

can i retrofit a 86-88 OMP to a 89+ engine? if i can, ill just get an 89+ GTU, and start w/ that motor.

should i use the turbo rotors, or the na rotors?

i hear some people say, that 3mm apex seals arent necessary unless its all out race...

i dunno, what do u guys think? its either this set up here, in a GTU/GTUs...or an FD.

chris

TriangleMan

grrrr...

tesla042

I assume you want to use the mech omp because you heard it's more reliable. Screw the OMP, run premix.. If you disable it, you can even run synthetic oil without worries.

-Tesla

Mykl

You could create a custom turbo system that would work on your car, but I would recommend that you do a full 13BT engine and drivetrain swap instead. Since the compression on the 13B-DEI-II is higher than the 13BT you won't be able to run as much boost, but it won't take as much boost to make decent power since the engine naturally has higher compression.

If you're looking to buy another car to do this too, why not just buy a Turbo II? If you can't find one of those find a nice '89-'91 n/a with a blown engine? I don't think having six ports over four offers any advantage when it comes to forced induction. It would just make things more complicated.

3mm apex seals do nothing more than make the seals more resistant to breaking under pre-ignition. If you do happen to pre-ignite then the damage will break the next weakest link in the engine. Also, since the contact area between the seal and the housing is larger (thicker?) you'll experience increased housing wear due to increased friction. I still don't understand why people do this modification to their engines. If someone could enlighten me, please do so.

As far as the OMP is concerned, I imagine you could use a mechanical OMP with the stock ECU on the '89-'91 models, but the ECU will think something is wrong and your "check engine" light will always be on. If you're running a Haltech then it won't matter, and it would be to your benefit to run a mechanical OMP. If in doubt of your OMP's ability to pump the proper amount of oil to the chambers run ~1oz of premix for each gallon of gasoline.

Also, there are adapters for the OMP that will force it to draw oil from a source of your choosing, as opposed to the oil pan. In this container you can have premix, engine oil, gasoline, ****, beer, or whatever you want it to inject into your engine. I would recommend using premix. Premix was designed to be injected into engines with gasoline, so it'll burn cleaner than standard engine oil.

TheTwinTurboRX-7

I have often wondered the same thing. Would really like to turbo my slow old vert. I have found a place that would do it for 4400 bucks. That is with a larger than stock turbo, FMIC, custom tubing and all of the various bells and whistles. Maybe one day when I have more money I will do it.

VtekEater

I can make a kit for the N/A's out ther for only $1,000

flubyux2

triangle man: [img]http://84377179.home.icq.com//rx7%20HC.jpg
[/img] trust me, im not anti-SE...i take pride in mine. im just sayin, id rather have something thats a little more BETTER than 'base model'

Mykl; i was skeptical about 3mm apex seals. what about ceramic seals. you ever hear of those? i figure, if i have it tuned right, i shouldnt have to worry about pre-ignition right? i was thinking a Haltech e6k... unless theres a reason why i should run something else.

it would be safer to run premix, cuz if my omp ever DOES fail, im screwed. besides which, i can run that synthetic Bombardier ashless oil that i use for my Rotax valved Sea Doo. thats nice stuff, but SUPER expensive. $30 or so for an Imp.Gallon.

i could peice together my own turbo kit, but, im never clear on which parts are gonna work together the best. i have an idea of what turbo i wanna use: either TD05 or T66...but then again, im around guys who bash "TurBlownetics" and say they arent that great.

as far as 6PI, wouldnt it seem like havin 6 ports to flow air is better than 4 ports? seems logical since you have more cross-sectional area. that would certainly apply when speakin of max flow characteristics, but not so much for velocity. but, then it would be a 4 port in the low rpms anywho.

i dunno, you got me second guessing the use of an OMP all together. i may just scrap that, and run premix. less complication, less to go wrong, less parts... know what im sayin?

oh well. the problem i face when peicing together my own turbo kit is:

-will the parts work together efficiently?
-how can i get the parts for cheap????

chris

Edit: Mykl, why wont my pic's ever show up on these threads?! not in my sig, and now they wont even show in the text...

Mykl

I don't know a whole lot about how ceramic apex seals work. Although I have heard that if they're used the engine will need frequent rebuilds to replace them. You may want to do a little more research here.

The Haltech seems to be the tried and true way to go, there are a lot of RX-7's that have them.

If you boosted a 13B-DEI-II with hi-comp rotors you may not want to use a big turbo. I'd give suggestions but I don't know a whole lot about the different turbochargers.

The only thing I'm skeptical about when it comes to premix is the effect it has on the fuel system. I have to wonder if it clogs the injectors or fuel filter at a faster rate than normal. The way I get around this is by changing the fuel filter every 10k and run fuel system treatment through the gas tank every 5k. I've heard that the mechanical OMP's are quite reliable, it's the electronic ones on the later engines that seem to be flakey. However, I think that it would be better to run it through the injectors since it actually sprays it, giving a wider area of protection. While the OMP just pushes the oil in through a pinhole, giving the most protection to the center of the seal.

To design a turbo system, all you need is a manifold to bolt it up to the engine, and a turbo that will bolt to that manifold. Everything else is just piping to connect the turbo to the throttle body. Of course there are other bits and pieces that need to be purchased to make it all work. But essentially, it's that simple, making it work reliably is the tricky part.

I'm not sure what the total size difference is between the intake ports on a 13B-DEI-II and a 13BT. But if the *stock* engine is boosted then port velocity isn't so much of a big deal since the manifold is under positive pressure (or boost). I'm pretty sure the size of the hole is what matters. However, when you get to actually porting the engine and such, size and shape become more important.

As far as gathering parts for cheap, talk to VtekEater, I'm sure he could give you a few pointers.

I'm not sure why your pics won't work. I copied and pasted it to a browser and it showed up just fine. Does your host allow linking like that? I know some sites like GeoCities doesn't.

sickboy

if im not mistaken, the 4 ports of a turbo motor flow more than the 6 ports of an NA anyway.

3mm seals arent NEEDED, but they dont hurt. they are basically a tuning crutch, and dont seal quite as well as 2mms.

you could put the mech OMP on the 89+ motor, but as was said, the ECU will throw the code that somethings wrong, and the car will go into "limp" mode.

basically, its not really worth doing. it CAN be done, but you are in every way shape and form better off buying a turbo II

also, theres a pretty large margin of difference between a TD05 mitsu based turbo, and a T66

flubyux2

yea, i would hate to gunk up my injectors due to running premix. but is that really a problem, since the oil is suspended in the fuel??

suppose the injectors DID get gunked up. would running fuel injector cleaner thru the system clean it out? (this is assuming running pre-mix as well)

everyone knows that the more cross sectional area you have in your intake plenum, the better port flow will be. 4 port motors will flow the same cfm as a 6 port motor. however, the 4 ports would probalby flow a faster port VELOCITY, just to keep the same port flow volume. if i have 6 ports turboed, it seems to me like i would have more port FLOW/Volume for the same port velocity that a 4 port motor would have. meaning, i would not have to work the turbo as hard. possibly use less boost. thats why i was even pondering a 6 port turbo.

if i do a turbo, i suppose i should use a T66, with a ball bearing center section...hehe. "thank god for ball bearing turbos"

how bout this idea: running premix in CONJUNCTION with keeping the OMP. thats pretty fool proof right?? maybe a little extra smoke, like a 2 stroke dirt bike, but you cant beat it for the protection of your seals.

i did want to keep my OMP for ease of use, but, i also wanted the 89+ rx7. is there a way to fool the 89+ computer into thinking the electric OMP is still there?

would just running a Haltech cure that problem all together?

By the way, Mykl, this is my research. you guys are helpin me decide which route i want to take for my next turbo project/car.

i would prefer running the low-comp. T2 rotors,but i wanted them to be the light weight ones, like on the 89+ motors. are Ser IV and Ser. V turbo2 rotors the same, or diff.?

oh yea, ive never dealt w/ the VDI. is that only on the NA's, or were there VDI's on the Turbos too?

thanks,
chris