88_N/A_GXL

iTrader: (3)

E85 is no more corrosive than gas Evil Aviator. Why else would we be running 10% blends of that instead of methanol, which is quite corrosive. And, if you tune e85 properly you can get better gas mileage and/or more power, not saying it's easy on a rotary, but I've done it on a couple builds before, but that's changing compression ratios and cams and such that is not possible on a rotary. But, if one was inclined and had deep enough pockets, I think they could get <10:1 rotors and run on a very lean mixture.

Then again, this is all a matter of opinions too and how you drive. You can't say you've never heard that how you drive has one of the biggest impacts on mpg. If your shooting for big numbers there, it is possible.

Also, this is why I was saying a -6AN line now and the Walbro GSL392 pump, or something smaller? I have a feeling it's all rusty in there anyways.

Evil Aviator

When you read the E85 propaganda that says that it is not corrosive, they mean in a chemical sense, which simply means that pure ethanol is not an acid. The problem is that ethanol is very polar, and as such it attracts water and other contaminants into the fuel system where they can cause damage. While studies are continuing in this realm, the main offender seems to be the chloride ions that are in ethanol blended fuels, which are shown to cause pitting corrosion, galvanic corrosion, and stress corrosion. Gasoline is very non-polar and does not exhibit this problem to a significant degree. If you look in your RX-7 owner's manual, you will see that the stock fuel system is rated for not more than 10% ethanol, and no methanol. Modern flex-fuel vehicles have fuel systems specially designed to resist deterioration caused by the fuel contaminants. If you insist on using that **** fuel, then when shopping for aftermarket fuel system components you should make sure they can handle E85, although most of them do nowadays.

There is no current technology that allows E85 to produce more power than gasoline in an NA engine. Ethanol simply has less energy content and a lower AFR, and that is just plain physics.

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

you want to make more power and not run race fuel the answer is simple, fuel economy isnt the issue at that point. Want fuel economy then buy a Prius

Switch the map over and run regular gas again if you wish- its not for everyone but its certainly not ****

88_N/A_GXL

iTrader: (3)

The water problem with blended mixtures is only because everything separates at mixtures under ~e30, might be a little off on the blend. And anything above that point and you can't saturate the ethanol enough for the mixture to separate or even cause any problems. What do you think iso-heet and heet, the fuel line deicers and water removers, are made out of? Last I checked isopropyl alcohol, chemically c3h8o, and ethanol is c2h6o correct? I don't know about you but those seem to be pretty similar to me, yet one is marketed for REMOVING water from a fuel system so that it does not cause any harm.

And, yes I do know e85 on an NA will not give any more power than gas, but when it's ~$1 cheaper per gallon, you do the math on which one is more economical.

Sadly Rob XX 7, we don't have a Prius, we have a Civic Hybrid if I really was concerned about mpg. It may not be the Prius, but it sure as hell gets better mileage than the 7.

87RXsexy7

Just thought i might as well share my knowledge on ethanol based fuels.
1st off everyone who said it is less efficient is totally correct - ethanol contains less energy than gasoline so for the same gallon you get fewer miles. While these may be less expensive after you've run your tank, ethanol is a subsidized production last i checked and subsidizing is detrimental to economic stability because it is supporting industry that shouldn't exist according to the market. You pay for subsidy through taxes. And the price of corn goes up.
2nd to produce ethanol from plant materials, the use of other fossil fuels is far greater than in the production of regular gasoline. This means that you aren't even being green because you are polluting the earth even more by using a fuel that pollutes in production and combustion = worse for the environment. Not to mention you are driving a sports car...

Also i don't know about these compounds that clean out water from your gas tank but it sounds like they do exactly what Evil Aviator said ethanol does: collect water. Only difference is typically you aren't running them for fuel. So they collect water out instead of collecting it constantly. I dunno. Could be wrong on that but makes sense to me.

88_N/A_GXL

iTrader: (3)

To your first, yes we all know it has a lower energy content, but that does not mean it is less efficient. It all depends on how it's used (ie. higher compression definitely ups the efficiency). That's like taking a Prius and acting as if your foot is made of lead, yea it's gonna be less efficient, but only because it's being used improperly.

To your second, I agree with you that current mass production techniques for making ethanol are detrimental to the environment, but there are better ways. They just need to up the scale on current eco-friendly ways to numbers that would actually matter to the world.

Also, ethanol and water are miscible, meaning they mix at all proportions. But, as gas is added, it tends to break up that miscibility and that is why we get corrosion in the fuel system. As I said before, anything above ~E30, and there isn't enough gas to affect the miscibility of the ethanol and water. And, on a side note, last I heard, water is great for carbon cleaning our motors and as long as it's not sitting separated in my tank and lines and such, I'm going to use it.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i don't really understand the idea behind E85 on a naturally aspirated engine unless you are running a peripheral port with a standalone.

-6 with the stock lines will push up to about 450 wheel horsepower with E85, when you go to -8 or -10 then the stock lines become the bottleneck and you still retain the same peak range for the fuel system.

you're going for extreme overkill, i'm not sure who you have been talking to but a turbo pump, stock lines and even the stock FPR are plenty for most n/a builds.

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

Its funny hearing RX7 owners talk about the environment, these cars are filthy.

I could give a rats *** about how E85 is made, all I care is I can run more boost and not come home smelling like I was mowing grass all day, the car emits almost no emissions now which makes my wife and I happy after a day with the top down. Our taxes pay for it, so what- less money in the hands of people who despise us the politicians and the lobbyist will always line their pockets its better then shiek a' stinky pitts shitting in one of his 38 gold plated toilets. while counting his money

For a car I drive way under 1000 miles a year I don't really care if I get less fuel economy, it doesn't effect me in the slightest, think I care if a day's drive cost me $20 or $24? its the least of my ownership expenses

88_N/A_GXL

iTrader: (3)

Karack, would all that work on a 20b also? How about 26b? If I get that adventurous one day. Then again both of those on E85? Someday I may boost, but as of right now that is currently out of my budget. I want something that will be fairly easy to upgrade down the road, hence all the AN fittings and plumbing right now. I don't want to have to completely rip everything apart just so that it can keep up with my upgrades down the road. I figure a nice semi-large pump for now up to a 8 or 10AN bulkhead right angle fitting on the tank, then run 6AN line under the car. That way, if I need more fuel for just bolt-on's and maybe a Power FC, I don't need to pull the pump and change the bulkhead, I could just run a larger line.

Correct me if I'm wrong but an 8 or 10AN line should be fairly sufficient even into boost on a 20b or 26b right? That's what I'm basing most of this project on right now, future "plug-n-play" upgrade ease. Even though I know to some of you this may seem pointless, but I know where I want to go someday and this just seems logical to me, and I don't have money just laying around to bigger and better fuel pumps, lines, injectors, etc. everytime I want more power.

Sorry if any of that sounds like I'm coming off as an a$$, I really don't mean to.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

know how many people come in my shop asking about even the cheaper alternative which is a 20B? quite a few, wonder how many eventually go with a 20B? almost none(only one so far and he has dumped well over $20k into his FD in the past several years while it takes up garage space). for a 4 rotor expect to be knee deep into your car for at minimum $40k by the time it's all said and done, of which you'll only see a fractional return on your investment.

i'd worry about overdoing the fuel system once you actually need it, otherwise you're just spending money for absolutely nothing right now.

believe it or not we're just trying to save you money and headache.

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

this


people are always very motivated, but unless you have very deep pockets and the commitment for the project practically none of these 3 rotor projects ever come to life

PvillKnight7

iTrader: (16)

Or if they do they break and/or get parted out in the for sale section. :/

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

anything over a 2 rotor is impractical, i know of many 3 rotor cars but i never see them because they simply are driven about 2-3 days a year.

what's the point having a car that no one sees?

if/when i ever do convert to a 3 rotor i would build it to be driven, not a garage ornament. my TII has 220k miles on it and looks better than the day i bought it 10 years ago.

88_N/A_GXL

iTrader: (3)

My 3 or 4 rotor will be a daily driver, I'm not big into keeping cars in garages. Like I said though, this is going to be a long project as you guys have pointed out that it takes a bit of money, that I don't have laying around. Maybe I'll pass my ASE tests and can get a nice paying job and specialize in rotaries, specifically pre-renesis, on the side, cuz we all know how common they are anymore.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

all i can say is best of luck, been doing it for 10 years and barely hang on day by day. renesis is the only way a shop these days will survive and even then i have a hard time convincing people that their 8 is worth spending $3k on for a rebuilt motor/install. and plenty of people tell me i'm too cheap, yet more often than not people scratch their head and dig into their mothballed wallet to usually not be seen again.

it's only just now that the first models are coming out of warranty, as everyone was taking their cars to the stealership to have the basics covered by the warranty.

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

and no more RX8s, if nothing replaces them who knows what the future will bring for these cars

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

you're probably looking at the last mass production rotary engine which was the 8(renesis 13B).

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

if your business plan is to fail then cater to rotary engines, cars and their owners are getting cheaper and cheaper.
Best to leave it as a side biz and pick and choose your customers carefully, more mature understanding customers versus whiny kids with shoestring budgets

88_N/A_GXL

iTrader: (3)

Like I said, rotaries on the side. One day I'll own my own shop hopefully.

cbrock

iTrader: (1)

If you run E85 plan to find hose with liners for alcohol or stainless hard line.