soloracer951

Congratulations! I can see from your signature that either you have really small feet or that turbo is a monster.

GohtretFC

I'm not sure yet. I really didn't mean to make the post that way. I started it out one way then changed my mind. For some reason I'm not thinking very clearly today.

So forget the whole question of what it's worth. I don't care about that.

I want to know what kind of numbers I can be expecting. Actually that doesn't even matter. I need to know what my main problem with this setup will be. Going stand alone right now is not an option, yes I understand that would be the optimal choice. I'm having a hard time understand why the stock ecu and piggy back won't be able to handle this. The primary and secondary injectors will be stock so the ecu will run those just like it's tuned to in the f-con. The f-con is tuned to 13 psi with this setup and I'm hoping that the changes to the turbo will help a bit.

I figured that I would be okay keeping the stock ecu and piggyback as long as I only upgraded to the additional injectors. The way I pictured it was everything will run like stock but I will be adding more boost and fuel to it manually with the HKS stuff. If I keep the afr's right I should be able to slowly increase boost and fuel. Yes, I know turbo's aren't magical and that they have limits. I think this turbo's limit is somewhere around 20-22 psi. If i'm not right im sure you'll correct me. And no I'm not looking for huge numbers right off the bat, this is going to be a process. I just need my car back for basic transportation right now, and i'll just have to be easy on the accelerator. No I will not go out and be stupid, lean it out and blow the motor. It will be very carefully watched.

I'm working with a guy who has a 1200HP cobra and his son has a 900 hp supra. They are used to working with big power and have helped me tremendously by letting my work in their shop and working on this prject with me. The whole family has also been big into drag racing and his other son is about to jump to the Outlaws I think. My point is that they are very meticulous about the work they do on cars and are very precise about things. I sound like a rambling idiot who can only give vague descriptions.

soloracer951

You are going to have to give the entire specs on that turbo (leave all the bearing info out it's practically meaningless other than for possibly lag or reliability questions) along with any engine (ported? Not ported? Etc) , exhaust, fuel system, etc modifications before anyone can even hope to pretend to give you an idea of what HP to expect. As for your friends experience with high horsepower piston engines they can be both a help and a hinderance. If you don't believe me ask them about porting a rotary or what split timing you should run. Their experience with their Supra and Cobra isn't going to be relevant other than for a generic understanding of mechanics. What you need is a rotary expert in your area who has been there, done that. Otherwise you are going to be doing a lot of R&D and educating your friends at your expense.

GohtretFC

The bearings and seals were done for reliability. I'll get the specs on the turbo later. I don't think it really matters what i'm going to be told to expect. I'll just wait and find out when i dyno her in a couple weeks.

I'm more so wondering about the fuel. Right now it has stock 550 primaries and secondaries and 2 440cc additional injectors. That should be enough for a little over 300hp according to the RP calculator. I figured that the easiest thing would be to increase the additional injectors since they are easier to get to and easier to control. I could add on much bigger injectors and just have them turned down low. But if I ended up needing more than I would have it available.

I don't really have a rotary expert around, that's the problem. The only person who touches them said he'd charge at least 2800 to finish the swap. I realize that might not be too bad of a price but considering the motor and everything was pretty much already in and hooked up I didn't see the justification for that since it didn't include tuning. He also didn't seem like the very helpful sort. Like I said we are going to be very careful with it and keep boost and everything at a minimum and watch the wideband very closely. As long as I can keep my foot off the gas. We should be fine till I can get it tuned here in the next couple weeks i'm hoping.

I'm going to give Gotham Racing and Rotary Performance a call tomorrow. I'll be down that way soon and I'm hoping they can take a look at it and possibly tune it.

phoenix7

redeem yourself and at least post pics of the car.

GohtretFC

Sorry they are crappy cell phone pics. And that's the car after sitting for 4 months. I can't wait to give it a very thorough washing and waxing.

I'll get some interior shots as well. I cut out part of the back of the glove box and hid all the electronics in there. I like it to look pretty much stock. I'm not about all out power which is why it still has ps and ac. I came from texas and not having AC combined with black leather seats is not a very fun.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

Let me ask you something. Remove your air filter and open the flapper door on your airflow meter by hand. Do you REALLY think that can flow 400whp? 500? I think the highest dyno I have ever seen with the AFM is 350 at most, and you'd want an Rtek 2.0 for that.

sharingan 19

iTrader: (16)

If you are in fact running the stock computer, the FCD isn't "just on there" its preventing boost cut.

I'm also very interested to know how you are running the stock computer w/o the afm? How would the computer have any idea how to adjust fuel/timing w/ no airflow information?

Also I'm not sure if the F-con has its own boost sensor, but the stock unit maxes out around 1 bar (15psi) so if you run anything past that you'll be flying blind in terms of fuel and timing. (At 22 psi the ecu would be saying _

There is a guy on here that made 400hp w/ just an SAFC for tuning, so "apparently" its possible to put up big power w/ a piggy back. Bear in mind this was on a turbo that didn't need to go past 15 psi to produce that kind of power. Be careful, it would be a shame to blow your motor after all this down time.

RETed

Like other have said, that turbo isn't going to hit that number.
The HKS PFC F-CON + AIC isn't going to hit that number either.
I believe the highest F-CON + AIC dyno number I've seen is 460 - 470 or so.
That fuel pump isn't going to support those kinds of power levels either.
So, the seller is flat-out lying to you, or you got bent over if you already bought the car.

HKS PFC F-CON and AIC units used to cost UP THE ***.
We're talking a grand each brand new.
Now, used, you can get them for just about $100 EACH.

Unless your last name is Schumacher, Alonzo, or Raikkonen, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK YOU CAN HANDLE A CAR PUTTING DOWN 500 AT THE WHEELS?


-Ted

GohtretFC

I already have the car.
I have owned it for a while stock.
I'm the one who has got all of the parts for it.
No I did not buy the car like this.
I already own and have installed everything listed.
All im waiting on is my freshly rebuilt turbo.

Now we please forget about the 500. I have already stated multiple times that I understand that and I wasn't expecting that.
As far as if I can handle it....I can. I've driven cars with more than that on a daily basis before and on the track and i've been to driving school. Just because i'm young doesn't mean im completely inexperienced. And you don't have to be Shumacher, Alonzo, or Raikkonen to handle 500 at the wheel. It would be nice if my last name were one of those though.


We put the motor in and everything and plugged in the stock pressure sensor and afm and the stock ecu to just get it to start. It would crank for a while then start and die immediately.
His son said that we wouldn't get it to work that way. The Piggy back has it's own sensors and everything needed to be fully hooked up for it to run. So we installed all the rest of the electronics and disconnected the afm and it started right up and stayed running. It is made to run without the sensor.


And for the record: I know this setup will not have 500HP. I will be happy with whatever I am able to get out of it. I am hoping for 400-450HP. After I have it running for awhile maybe I will be able to upgrade things again and finally hit 500hp. Maybe I could even try to be the first to hit 500hp on a stock ecu. But I'll start another thread for that so I can get some good technical info as to why it won't work instead of reading all this flammage, and maybe somebody could come up with a way it could work instead of nothing but naysayers and negativity. Yes, I understand I started things out very poorly and I apologize.

pfsantos

iTrader: (1)

I'm a noob when it comes to Forced induction...and many other things, but a few things I know. It's good you're becoming very realistic in terms of horsepower gains. It won't hurt as much on the dyno when you see the numbers. Be careful with tuning - you're dealing with guys who may know their **** when it comes to cars in general, but rotaries need people who specialize in their tuning and willing to sacrifice getting the last bit of power to make sure your investment doesn't blow up. Whatever your setup (I know you're at this point ruling out a different ECU setup), make sure the beast gets more fuel than it needs to prevent detonation under any circumstances, and watch out for boost creep. You've already learned a project like this always ends up loosing money in terms of resale compared to money and time put in. The only justification a lot of times is the lessons and knowledge learned along the way.

GohtretFC

It will have a very safe low tune till I get it done professionally. And I'm gonna make sure it's got the fuel.

I've learned alot and have enjoyed it. Now I need to start learning the more technical side of things.

RETed

If I were a betting man, I would easily bet against you...

Good luck.


-Ted

Roen

iTrader: (2)

Combustion isn't just about air and fuel.

You're missing something that is required to combust.

A stock ECU cannot adjust that something for high boost levels.

Nick_d_TII

iTrader: (6)

Oh OH... Me me... Is it timing? You need timing control to run big boost. My opinion is that the OP is shooting for the moon, but he's using bottle rockets... ain't never gonna make it. There is a lot of info on here to get into The '500 club', but you must try to learn/take that information and use it wisely. Only then will you follow in their foot steps...

Roen

iTrader: (2)

Dangit, you gave it away, I wanted the OP to take a shot at it.

But yes, timing control can prevent detonation. Which can save you a blown motor.

GohtretFC

I'm not saying im an amazing driver. All i'm trying to say is im not some dumb kid who is going to go out and go WOT all the time. I'm not even going to run it hard.

I am trying to learn from the guys who have been there and know what they are talking about, but instead im just getting flamed. You guys just start attacking instead of really trying to help someone who is trying to learn and do the right stuff.
I have never had a problem on this forum before. Instead of being so negative give me some positive information about what else I should be looking at doing. Recommend a standalone, injector sizes, a turbo, an exhaust, anything.

As I said before I'm not expecting 500hp and im not even trying to reach that with this setup. How many more times do I have to restate that.

I understand the reason I am being flamed is for how I started this whole post but I have corrected that and am now just asking for advice. So if some of you have some informatiion that will help me please post it and thank you, otherwise close the thread becuase it's gone to ****.

zbrown

For his sake i know that is possible............

I stuffed a 67mm (to4r) wheel into a regular 57trim T04E.......

and a 67mm on a P trim is a 500rwhp turbo.....

Roen

iTrader: (2)

standalone? Haltech/Microtech

Recently, I've seen a shift towards Microtech from Haltech. Better support, software is newer, etc.... However, at the end of the day, if your car is tuned right, either is fine.

Injectors?

720 primaries
1680 secondaries should be sufficient off the top of my head for 500 whp

Fuel Pump?

You may want to consider an aeromotive external fuel pump set up with a surge tank and a walbro or nippondenso in the main tank.

Turbo? there are many, learn about all of them and choose the one that makes the most sense for your budget and type of driving the car will see. For example, if you don't have the money, and you only care about peak hp, a nice old laggy turbo should fit the bill.

Exhuast?

Custom at this stage. Get a pre-silencer at least, or try to be like one of those japanese tuning shops that make 500+ ps with a high-flow cat.

RETed

I dunno if it's a "shift", but people think they can get away cheap.
Microtech was cheaper than a Haltech at one point, and group buys were very popular.
Funny thing is that I dunno what happened to the majority of those people who did jump on those groups buys.
I do see a LOT more Microtechs popping up for sale...

Hmmmm?

Let's take a snap shot...one week trailing?
Back to Nov 28...

Haltech section:
15 total post (ignoring stickies)
5 / 15 = commercial / wanted / for sale
4 / 15 = general help other than installation
3 / 15 = install help
3 / 15 = problems with Haltech

Microtech section:
9 total posts (ignoring stickies)
3 / 9 = commercial / wanted / for sale
3/ 9 = general help other than installation
1 / 9 = install help
3 / 9 = problems with Microtech

Just pure statistics...
Microtech problems account for 33% - Haltech only 20%.
If we include install problems, Microtech is 44% versus Haltech with 40%.

Now, this is purely a snapshot of what's being posted in their specific subsections over the past week.
Whenever I peek inside the Microtech section, I see a lot more problems being posted there than the Haltech section.
...FWIW.


-Ted

Roen

iTrader: (2)

Your point is valid, but I do hear that support from Haltech is a bitch vwhereas it's very fast from Microtech. I've never had an Haltech issues, but speaking with Dave @ KDR, his accounts are what put me on this path.

GohtretFC

Rotary Performance recommended I use a PowerFC.

What do you guys think about that option.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

from my experiences almost all problems with the microtech are from installation and i have also experienced the same issues with installation errors on the haltechs, microtech is much easier to setup install and tune IMO though but the haltech systems have a more diverse adaptability range.

the fact you can't hotswap maps on microtech by downloading them off the net really kills the support for microtech and they really need to get out of the stone age in that aspect.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Only reason I went Haltech.

Great unit, a few drawbacks.

1) You need to buy an adapter from Banzai (should also include the additional sensor's you'll need to install)
2) Utilizes your factory harness. By this time, *most* harnesses are dry rotted, cracking, missing a few plugs etc. and this is where many standalones add reliability - because you're using a brand new harness to run the engine.

Other then that though they're pretty sweet. Really sweet on an FD.

phoenix7

and don't forget

3) Apex-i no longer makes the P-FC