RYLMONKEY

lol i just bought a 94 dsm. and i gotta say its utter crap compared to the t2. but i gotta say this thing is gonna last. a t2 is a car thats unique and has many saying how the ****. i gotta say t2 is much better.

Liquid Anarchy

iTrader: (2)

Want cheap straight-line performance? DSM, no question. Want a sportscar? Get an RX-7.

Ramocheese

Either way you can't go wrong.

I have ALWAYS preferred a 1G DSM over a 2G. 1G's are lighter, has a better head, intake manifold, throttle body, cams, and stock turbo than a 2G, and the suspension is designed a lot better than a 2G's. Plus, a clean '92-'94, lowered, with a set of 16x8 wheels looks aggressive as all hell in my opinion. If you get one, you have to get an eclipse GSX, talon TSi AWD, or laser RS-T AWD. If you get FWD, you just defeated the whole purpose of getting a DSM, since there are better FWD alternatives.

The FC is just a badass car. Its suspension is ungodly, you can make a lot of power (although it'll take a bit more work and knowledge to make one fast and keep it together), and it's not near as common as a turbo DSM.

Take either one you want, maybe the deciding factor will be weather. Where do you live? Do you get a lot of snow, etc?

Relisys190

iTrader: (4)

My cousin has had both 95 GST... and 96 GSX.. the Gsx is alittle heavier due to being awd, but it makes up for the weight problem with ripping out of the hole so easy.. if i had to choose between a 1st gen AWD or a Rx-7 T2, i would go with the T2.. the Awd just doesnt do anything for me. and the interior plasics are even cheaper than our Fc's.. plus, your going to have a helluva problem with Crankwalk on those cars. My cousins 2nd gen 96 Gsx blew a tranny at 89,000 miles.. and he's all stock. they have terrible transmissions, unfortunatly you'll have problems if you ever go over 140... i dont know if any of you guys say it but : road and track while speed testing the AWD 1st gen DSM had to duct tape the hood down.. 3 consecutive times...3 different cars they had the hood fly open and rip off after they hit nearly 140mph sorry.. but again, i'd go with the mazda.

-Markus

DSM.. hurmmm. sorry they suck.

darknation329

I'd get a TII over an eclipse any day just because of the reactions you get from people. The TII is a unique car and you don't see them on the road every day. You are driving a sports car and even older people will acknowledge that. I've also noticed that I dont get bugged by ricers when in my RX-7.

Snrub

iTrader: (1)

Drive the two and if you have any inclination towards performance you'll pick the TII. (atleast I would) I was expecting a '93 DSM AWD that I drove to be very equal to the TII. Boy was I wrong.

I really can't complain about my car's reliability.

turbogarrett

iTrader: (1)

tough call. i don't have much experience w/ the turbo2,but used to own a 92 awd talon that was heavily modded and am currently looking for another for a daily driver. they are awesome stoplight racers w/ awd, more fuel and a big turbo. go with a 93- 94 as they have the stronger 4 bolt rear axle, no pop up lights and other small benefits. just remember that the dsm transmissions will not last long with high hp launches and are neither fun or cheap to change(trust me) and even with a fully upgraded suspension are not a very good handling car.

rx7rotary89

rx7 all the way, none of that chrysler ****

ShadowX

If you want staight line speed, go for the DSM. (AWD is great in foul weather too, unlike RWD!)
For for balanced driving and cool power slide, RX7!
I have both cars, and the RX7 TII is way for fun, but it sucks in the rain. The 4G63 in the DSM is far more "sturdy" then the 13B. It's pretty much indestructible unless you are a complete idiot. I'm running 15 PSI on stock motor with regular injectors and fuel pump. Very little knock. I still prefer the 7 though.

xDmoneYx

Just a few corrections I thought I'd point out, as I cruise these boards often, but don't post too much.

GST is the turbo FWD, not AWD. DSM's aren't known for headgasket problems, you might be thinking of a MKIII Supra. A definate problem with DSM's is the timing belt, once it snaps, all hell breaks loose (interference engine).

I've worked on both FC's and DSM's, both turbo and NT for both. Both aren't all that fun to work on under the hood.

If you want one to rebuild, I'd say go with a DSM because their is an abundance of DSM parts to buy (check www.dsmtuners.com and www.dsmtrader.com ). Like someone else mentioned, it seems like there are alot more DSM's laying around to part out vs FC's.

PS- I ran a 14.4@94mph a few weeks ago with just the mods posted in my sig. It was on pump gas (92 octane) and 14psi (stock is 11). I had a 1.88 60'.

Good luck

Bukwild

sorry to say but bang for your buck you have to go with. If you have 5k you can get into 11 seconds quarter. Stock motor, stock turbo and you buy 3 things.
Front mount intercooler 1k
Boost controller 500
fuel pump 100
and you are in their. right buy my house we have Extreme motorsports and they prove this all the time.

Bukwild

oh yeah I forgot one thing AFC 300 so its 4 things

cbrock

iTrader: (1)

6 AWD trannies in 2 years and 2 were built up by John Shepard. Awsome motors, horrid transmissions. Mine was running high 11's...waaaay too much power for the driveline. I'm now RWD for life

oh, and if you do decide to get a 1st gen, get the talon....by far the best looking of that generation.

flubyux2

Ok, sorry, im gnona hafta school you peoples:

FC turbo is a great all around car but isnt capable of skyhigh HP like the DSM is. I own an FC and a 1G DSM AWD turbo... so i know both sides of the story.

FC is great handling car, pure sports call, all the way; through and through. it doesnt do one thing EXTREMELY well, but it does EVERY thing very very good. thats how mazda is. the FC wont make 450 BHP on a stock long block. the FC wont cut 1.6 second 60' times. the FC wont make it through the snow as well. the FC will not take well to mediocre tuning... let alone ham-fisted tuning. the FC can not go fast for cheap.

But:
the FC has Brakes that id sell my left liver for.
the FC has forged aluminum suspension components. the FC is a TRUE sports car.
the FC has a racing (IMSA/GTU) heritage and race car roots.
the FC is beautiful.
the FC is lightweight.
The FC has near perfect weight distribution.
the FC has near perfect handling.
the FC has the most supportive seats ever... like MK3 Supras
the FC drifts like a champ.

on the other hand...

the DSM is NOT CHRYSLER... its ~100% japanese powered. the 4G63BT in the 1G DSM is derived from the JDM Galant RS, which came stock with 16g turbo and 510cc injectors and 8.5:1 compression. the USDM 4G63 for 1G's is 14b turbo, 450cc injectors, and 7.8:1 compression. the head has such huge ports, there are guys running 10's on UNTOUCHED heads. the Rods in the 90-5/92 4G63's have rods that would put V8 rods to shame. the Cranks are Nitrided; there have been people who spun rod bearings and the crank was pristene.

the DSM:

can go 13's for $1000 in mods.
can be had for under $4000, in Turbo and AWD format
Can produce 450 BHP on stock pistons, rods, crank,head, valves, springs, cams.
can out-launch almost any car in the world
can be made to handle as well as an FC (see www.roadraceengineering.com)
Can be made as light as an FC (2500-2600, even in AWD)
Can hit top end as high as 160 mph (in FWD format)
can rev to 7500 in STOCK condition (there are people known to shift @ 8500 on stock heads too)
the brakes do suck though, ill be the first to tell you that.
the Trannies will hold good power but the syncros commonly fail (www.teamrip.com builds race-ready trannies for ~$1200)
Axles break, but you can get Lifetime warranty @ Autozone
come with front and rear LSD, and 3.545 gears.
can be tuned for 0 knock w/ SAFC and datalogger called Pocketlogger (see www.pocketlogger.com)

our cars best time... 3 years ago was:

60' 1.81 second
1/8 mile 7.8 seconds
1/4 13.8 seconds
MPH 101 mph

that run was w/ a decent launch, no 2nd gear synchros, no tuning, stock injectors, stock AFM, stock turbo, All-season tires, stock suspension, stock 25lb rims, stock clutch, stock flywheel, stock cams and a 2970# race weight. should have been about 268HP to at all 4 wheels.

now, the car has:
2G MAS (upgrade, 25% more airflow)
550cc
SAFC
Pocketlogger
ACT2600
Fidanza 9.5#
HD slave cyl.
Parada spec I
KYB AGX's
Enkei Etoria, 16.5# each
Upgraded rear end (4 bolt flanges instead of 3 bolt)
Race prepped tranny (2x synchros in 2nd and 3rd, handfiled and deburred all gears and synchros, shimmed tight: by John shepherd www.shepracing.com)
Short throw shifter
Base model seats (40# savings)
No rear interior (50# savings)
No sound deadner (15# savings)
other misc lightening...

the car should be capable of Mid 12's, 107ish MPH and 1.7 60' times... and that only cost $3500 car + $2000 mods... you cant argue w/ that.

xDmoneYx

Ahhh good point. How could I forget about the trannies. It's pretty rare to find a 1G with good synchros. My 1st gear grinds everytime. At the track I had to baby-shift 2nd because if I slam it, it'll just grind.

The brakes are pretty good, but can be even better by upgrading to 93+ AWD brakes with dual piston calipers and 10.8" rotors vs the 10" on the '90-'92's.

Bob Breach

I would say the dsm. It was about time somebody said something. I was getting tired of hearing the trash talk


Bob
_________________
1993 Eclipse GSX
12.44@111, soon to be 11's
16G and stuff

cbrock

iTrader: (1)

The problem is (DSM), they had to package that transmission into a little case. They build up too much heat and when it does, stuff breaks. John tried every type of gear lube to keep it running cooler, nothing really helped so he just uses the cheapest stuff he can find. Although, he tears the tranny down every-so-often. I was thinking up ways to run an oil pump from the tranny to an external oil cooler and pump back in, but it broke and I called it quits. I'd say DSM's are fairly reliable for mid to high 12's, much past that and stuff WILL break...with the good launches of course. Great street cars, but scary to take to the track. Wheel hop, shatter the center dif, launch too hard, axles, center diff...whatever, I'd say a little tranny prayer before each run But I will say, you can't beat the speed for the money

sub9lulu

iTrader: (7)

rx7 all the way ~
this is rx7 forum ...

F1blueRx7

iTrader: (5)

I've got both... and trust me I never have any free time with all the maint. I've got a spare good engine and 2 rebuildable stock turbos if ya need them!

either are cool... but I like the rx7 better cause it's rwd... and i still prefer a sloppy rear end to a big drivetrain loss.

SallBoutzTII

TII

amused

those dsms can be nasty sleepers

but they're fugly as all hell. i just dont like the lines of the car at all.

(i'm sure people think the fc is ugly too, but prolly not here seeing as this is an rx-7 forum...)

i went to the track and 1st and 2nd gen dsms were a dime a dozen. comparatively there were 2 FCs there and they got twice as much attention. there's nothing like the sound of a rotary at WOT.

Bambam7

Quality wise.. I think the DSM's suck... too much cheap plastic.. it's evident like crazy in the interior. I've driven about 6 Talons and Lasers, some turbo, some ES's. The engines are about as disposable as rotaries are too.

I hate the early 1st gens.. the second version 1st gens (withOUT flip-up headlights) look much better.
I love my RX-7, but I'm also getting tired as hell of it. It seems like there is perpetually a few things thatr I need to pour a few hundred bucks into to fix. As soon as I fix one thing, something else goes wrong. I've actually come to the conclusion that if I leave what's broken now alone, (3rd engine, needs turbo rebuilt, leaky heater core, water pump leak, Drivers side window motor, d.side lock, d. side front turn signal, exhaust leaks- and falls off, rear brake caliper, crazy alignment all of a sudden, rear suspension clunking and wagging all over) nothing else will go wrong.. seems to be holding up so far!

Gibenstein

iTrader: (2)

double post

Gibenstein

iTrader: (2)

Ive considered a dsm but when those bitchs break be prepared to whip out some $$$$$... Otherwise AWD is a nice thing to have .

LT8TurboII

iTrader: (2)

That is the most wrong statement I have seen. I have had both, and the DSM engine is definatley much stronger. Mine held 28psi every weekend and 20psi daily out of a 20g, completely stock motor/HG. My Talon saw the end of a Greddy 2bar boost gauge more than 5 times, and never even hiccupped.


Daniel