HAILERS

EDIT: I erased what I had here a few minutes ago. The series five FSM has a boner on one of their schematics. They were calling the Relief the Switching and vice versa. Confused me. Page F2-6 is the page that threw me off, til I looked further in the FSM and confirmed it's just that page.

Orange is airpump air leaving the ACV and going to the Relief solenoid. The pink is that same air leaving the Relief solenoid coming back to apply pressure at the mushroom where the relief valve is.

Green is vacuum from the Switching solenoid.

Jumpering orange to pink AT the ACV results in the Acv dumping all the time no matter what the switching and relief solenoids do.

Quick and easy to do, and if you go for a drive, that drive should tell you if the ACV/airpump was causing problems with the AFR.

vrracing

iTrader: (1)

According to that I have two of the lines not right. I have the line they show going to the pressure sensor going to the BOV. Dont know if that would make a difference but I'll switch it out tomorrow.

vrracing

iTrader: (1)

You know, I was thinking about the low volts and disconnecting the SAFC like you suggested.

I have the Zeitronix' red power wire pulling from ECU's power line just like the SAFC which explicitly wants to pull power from the ECU's power line. However, I tapped into the switched power from the cigarette lighter for the orange illumination wire for the SAFC Neo. I figured if they provided a separate wire they wanted a separate source.

Given that the Zeitronix is powering a heater for the w/b o2 sensor, then it seems to reason its drawing a fair amount of current from the ECU.

I'm going to change the Z's wiring to pull power from the cigarette lighter lead and see what that does to the voltage from the TPS.

HAILERS

Actually I agree with Arghx. Over about 4000rpm your definelty not lean, and it gets down into the 12's. But a lot of the time under 3800rpm or so, you seem to be reading stoic with the TPS Full range pegged out, which confuses me.

I sure wish Santa would bring you a Zeitronix Pressure sensor for Xmas. I can't tell how hard your *on it* other than the Full Range TPS (which for some reason I *wonder* about).

Your definetly not going to blow it up over 4000rpm from what I see.

So, write a letter to Santa "Dear Santa, I NEED a Zeitronix Boost Sensor prior to XMAS".

vrracing

iTrader: (1)

Santa is a jolly ol' soul!

Yeah, I was going to get that and their combo gauge to put in an a-pillar pod anyways. The manual gauge cluster doesnt have a boost gauge so I need it.

I took the car out this morning and it actually drove pretty well. No obvious surging, just the little bouncing at idle. So that's good.

I swapped the BOV and air pressure sensor lines to match the drawing you had below, HAILERS, which I've included here for convenience...

Attachment 322485

After I did that, the car wouldnt idle anymore. I may have to back-probe the pressure line into the CPU and see what's going on. I'd assumed they were both straight vacuums so it wouldnt make any difference. I was wrong apparently.

HAILERS

Ya know something. YOUR ACV seems to not match the jpg I attached earlier. Nor does it match my series four ACV.

What I don't see, is the vacuum line on it that goes to the boost sensor on the right front fender. Go look at my jpg out of the manual, then look at your ACV. They're not the same.

So undo what you did and go back to where things were before.

HAILERS

Attached is a jpg of a series five ACV I picked up sometime ago. The jpgs show where and what each nipple does....more or less.

Don't let this keep you from doing what your doing. It's just a FYI thing. But from the way you said you moved the hoses, I think you misunderstood what I meant to say about running a hose from the airpump outlet nipple (the small nipple) to the mushroom diaphram on the bottoms nipple.

HAILERS

.

vrracing

iTrader: (1)

Ignore the part about it stalling, I got distracted cutting the BOV line to length and ended up forgetting to attach the boost pressure line to the nipple on the ACV.

vrracing

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, that is what I was saying. I had the line from the nipple on the UIM (behind and left of the BAC) going to the boost sensor and I had the line from the nipple on the ACV going to the BOV. That's backwards so I switched em.

Well, at first I just left the line that should have gone from the boost sensor to the ACV unconnected but that was just silly. But with both connected its better now.

vrracing

iTrader: (1)

So here's my plan for the week.

1) I'm going to order the Zeitronix boost sensor and multigauge. Any suggestions on the best fitting single gauge A-pillar pod?

2) I'm going to switch the power input for the Zeitronix from the ECUs power line to the cigarette lighter (which is also powering the lights on the SAFC). This will ensure that I'm not overwhelming the ECU's power supply. I'll recheck the voltage from the TPS. Hopefully it goes up.

3) I'm going to hook A to B so the ACV dumps the air pump air all the time and do some recorded passes.

4) If things are still freaky I'll put 6ohm resistors on the primaries.

Thanks guys. I think it is getting really close.

HAILERS

I don't use boost gauges. I use a Palm M515 device and programm bought from Digital Tuning to view rpm, boost, afr off the Zeitronix. I put the Palm on the dash and look at it as I drive around.

I also have a RTEK2.1, but if I'm interested in boost/afr, I connect to the Zeitronix. It's just a personal preference. I have a laptop (the thing I'm typing on, hp pavillion ze4900), and frankly hardly ever drive with it connected to the Zeitronix. Its just too difficult for me to see in the daylight and it's sitting over on the right seat which makes life *more harder*. Plus I'm tired of messing with my cars and wanna go sailing more.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

before you go buying aftermarket gauges why don't you buy a TPS that works??? I bought a brand new s4 TPS from Ray Crowe (Malloy Mazda) for like $190 shipped. That's cheaper than Mazdatrix. I'm sure you could get a good deal on an s5 one, and you'll never have to worry about it again. Just look up the number for Malloy Mazda in Woodbridge VA and then ask for Ray at the parts counter. He is an FD owner and is very knowledgeable.

vrracing

iTrader: (1)

Well because Im not convinced the TPS is bad. Remember that Ive had two different TPSs on here and got the same voltage output. The first one was the JDM one that came with the original engine and the second one - on the car now - was on the NA and we didn't have any TPS problems there. So having them both go bad and for it to manifest in the same way with the same low full throttle voltage seems unlikely.

Great tip about Ray. If I can prove the TPS is bad Ill give him a call.

I think I need a boost gauge regardless. When I was building the engine I searched on the wastegate porting and it always seemed to be an S4 problem. But since then it seems like I've seen posts that imply that it is a problem on S5s too - albiet to a lessor degree. My wife's Audi A4 2.0 turbo doesn't have boost gauge but of course it has a stock exhaust and isn't ported. I may follow HAILERS lead and just get the Z boost sensor and the pocket logger software. I think I'd be happy if the Z pc software allowed you to specify a conversion formula so I could monitor the Mazda boost sensor and easily convert the voltage to psi. If I can export the era to Excel I might play with that.

HAILERS

Well, I'm tempted to just sell you one of my old AutoZMeter boost gauges for ??? five-ten bucks for something to just look at....plus shipping.

Personally, right now, I'd buy the Zeitronix two bar boost sensor and just use that. You'll be able to see the boost/vacuum on your laptop graphs and that'll help a bunch. It's pretty easy to rig up.

I'd skip getting a Palm and the software right now. But the Sensor I'd definetly get.

We keep forgetting to remind you to remove the 02 sensors wire prior to going for a ride. That'll be a big decider if I'm really seeing closed loop as much as it Seems to be on your logs. You can just reattach it after the run(s).

Your voltage on the narrow range puzzles us. It's the kind of thing where I'd get a meter out and backprobe the pin for the narrow range and, with a hot engine, key ON engine off, I'd watch the meter while you go full throttle and back. That 3vdc we see for narrow just can't be right.

vrracing

iTrader: (1)

Cool. I'm in a meeting but I'll order the sensor when I get out.

I'll do the backprobe test then i'll move the Z's power feed tonight and then I do the backprobe again and publish both numbers here.

I'll also trace the ACV lines per your pictures.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

boost creep is definitely an s5 problem! I had an s5 turbo (s4 car though) with a ported wastegate (to the edge of the stock flapper) on my s4 car with 2.5" exhaust, no cat. It still creeped to like 14psi in weather under 40 degrees. I did have a big street port on the motor which helps spool.

HAILERS

You don't have to physically trace the lines/hoses.

In the pictures, I labled two of the nipples on the ACV, as going to the Relief solenoid. So if you have a piece of vauum hose three feet long or so, you can attach it to one of the nipples that feed those two items, and blow into it. The air should exit at one of the two nipples on the Relief solenoid.

Same with the Switching solenoid. The nipple that sticks straight up on the ACV gets fed by the Switching solenoid. So blow into that line and it should exit at the switching solenoid.

It MATTERS which nipple on the solenoids the hose goes to. You can look at this series four diagram attached to see which nipple on the solenoids gets what.

I'm not saying your lines are messed up, but it can happen because of the way the lines are run from the left to right side of the engine. Especially at the right rear of the engine where they is a transition from one set of hard lines to another set of hard lines.

HAILERS

I might be part of the PROBLEM. I suggested using the BLUE wire for narrow range would work. Well, here is a log I did a few moments ago in the neighbor hood. The BLUE is connected to nothing, and it shows a default of ??? 3.0 or so all the time.

A little later I'll just hook the BLUE to the ECU TPS wire and see how it reads. It should show the TPS percent in the User input line on the graph and nothing on the TPS line on the graph. I'm not sure when I'll get to that. Might be a hour or so.

Ignore the EGT on the graph. It's non functional and it seems to default to the last time I had EGT wires going to the Zeitronix. That's been months ago.

Byyyyyy the way. I'd like to RANT about using laptops for viewing data in real time. IT SUCKS BIG TIME. It's bright day outside today. So I hooked the laptop to the ZEIRTONIX and I'll be damned it I can see a DAMN thing on the screen without finding a shadow to cover the screeen. Now I AGAIN see why I use a PALM to view data in real time. Large numbers, bright screen easily viewed.

Laptops are for working the web while watching the telly. That's all. And yes, the laptop battery was fully charged.

This log was done driving around the block. Got a few well deserved meany stares from the few people out in their yards.

That particular car is being run on half ethonal and half regular gas, so if the afr seems a little high, not to worry. The higher octane should take care of that. That car was rigged up for $4.00 gas and saving gas/money. Remember a couple of months ago with gas at four bucks plus and how the price would NEVER EVER again go down because of Indial and China driving the supply down blah, blah, blah. Well the price is $1.63 this day at WalMart. Duh. Can you say Speculators and oil is a Commodity? Are we allowed to say that large Pension Funds like the one in Calif were Speculating in OIL instead of Mortgage funds (I forget the real financial device name(s). Can we say Nancy Pelosi lost interest in looking at Speculators when the Calif Pension fund manager told her to BACK OFF B...CH. Opps. Not the Lounge area of the forum. I forgot where I was.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

See s5 T2 FSM page F2-78, You are measuring the narrow range TPS voltage at pin 2F, correct? Adjust it so it's around 1V with the throttle closed (don't worry about the two-light method). I'm sure you've done that already.

Now, to check if it's bad: See page F2-81. Is the narrow range resistance 6+ ohms WOT? If it is, your TPS is bad. It doesn't matter if the wideband was somehow causing a problem with your 5 volt reference voltage. The TPS is a potentiometer. If the internal resistance is too high, regardless of whatever voltage source it is getting when in operation, the TPS is bad.

On my old s4 TPS I could set it to 1V with the throttle closed, and at WOT it would read like 3.8 Volts instead of 4.8 like it should. That's because the TPS had developed more internal resistance over the years (WOT resistance was like 8 ohms) and was now out of spec.

I bought a brand new TPS and resistance was much lower. With the TPS adjusted to 1V (throttle closed), it would now read 4.9 volts WOT. So for our purposes, the internal resistance has nothing to do with the external voltage source--that's why you can test the TPS resistance with the sensor disconnected.

This is a long way of saying that I don't think rewiring your 12V Zeitronix is going to help, unless it was somehow affecting the 5v reference signal, which is unlikely.

HAILERS

So I put the BLUE wire on the TPS output on a series four. The GREY, which is usually connnected to the ECU TPS output, is going to NOTHING.

So the BLUE or USER 1, measures voltage and not percent like the GREY wire. In the attachment you can see BLUE is showing a TPS voltage of 4.80vdc.

What is interesting, is the graph show a TPS value, which didn't surprise me that much, but what did surprise me, is that number changes in value as you view the graph. I'm pretty sure that is *noise* and nothing else. To be ignored. Not talking about the USER 1 but the TPS line on the graph.

The second jpg is YOURS. Look at the USER 1 and the jagged line. Then compare that to my USER 1. That makes me wonder a bit...the jagged line in your USER 1. But maybe it has someting to do with the resolution of your graph compared to mine. Got me, but it makes me wonder a bit.

vrracing

iTrader: (1)

ARGHX, Yep, I understand. I did the resistance check on the JDM TPS with my analog meter and it was fine (still returned the ~3v on the NR though). Now, being analog and old it's possible that it read wrong.

I have not ohm checked the NAs but will tonight with the new DMM I bought yesterday.

vrracing

iTrader: (1)

Interesting, HAILERS. That proves that the USER1 channel can be used to monitor the NR TPS.

On the jiggling USER1 line, you can see the number dancing +/- .1 or .2 volts when the car is running.

Nice consistent breeze down here in Austin. Maybe you should go sailing. I suspect your neighbors will appreciate it...

vrracing

iTrader: (1)

Hmmm... I'm guessing you wouldnt be offended if I referred to our local community down here as the People's Republic of Austin!

HAILERS

A hot bed of Marxist Lenists! Round 'em up and send 'em all to.....San Fransisco where they belong!

And CalPERS is the California pension fund I was trying to remember my other post.