13B-RE swap questions.
11-21-06, 04:57 PM
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13B-RE swap questions.
Trying to find everything I need for the swap, can't seem to find the motor mounts. I know someone sells them, but the pages everyone refers me to aren't there anymore. Can't seem to get ahold of fc3s.org, can't find on speed machine. Also need to know how to install a FMIC(i.e. what mods to radiator). Was going to get an XS power intercooler, but unsure of quality. Also can't seem to find coils and igniters for the Cosmo RE motor(trying to keep sequential set-up). Any help greatly appreciated, thanks.
11-25-06, 06:12 PM
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Can I use my 87 N/A transmission and bolt it right up to the motor, or do I need to have the Turbo trans(to bolt up, not for duribility)? I really don't want to hassle with putting in an entire drivetrain if I don't have to. If I do have to put one in, can I keep the rear axle and differential and just put in the driveshaft and transmission?
11-25-06, 10:32 PM
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Call Dave back up at speed machine or email Dave@speedmachine.com I think he is out of town right now. He will ushaly send a message back from his phone. 1,500 it will run your for the RE and mounts I dont know off hand but he has them both and a EMS for it, or had a RE just a few weeks ago for sale. You can also PM him from clubfc3s.com.
11-25-06, 10:36 PM
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1500 for re mounts. do you mean 150. I paid 150 for stainless tig welded ebay mounts and they are working great.
The RE sequential turbo's suck. they are much smaller than rew turbos. It would be cool to have them run sequentially of a haltech or other ems.
The RE sequential turbo's suck. they are much smaller than rew turbos. It would be cool to have them run sequentially of a haltech or other ems.
11-25-06, 10:42 PM
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I've got an up and running 13B-RE swap into my 87 T2. So I'm talking from experience so I've got a bit of credibility though my car knowledge is weak compared others on the forum who've never even done the swap.
A thorough search will show that the complete NA drivetrain won't last if you do a stock T2 swap into your NA. You can only guess how well it'd hold up to a twin turbo 13B-Re swap that pushes a little bit more power stock otherwise yes it'll bolt right up. I can understand not wanting to mess with the entire drivetrain, but it'll have to be done at some point since the NA stuff will fall apart. You may as well do it all at once.
For motor mounts and brackets, here's one spot beyond the two you've already checked that I know makes these brackets.
http://www.banzairacing.net/
My mounts and brackets came with my motor and I don't know exactly where they were made.
For the FMIC, I don't remember having to do any mods to the radiator. I do remember having to widen a hole and cutting a hole for the piping (or was it widen a couple of existing holes?). It's not too bad. Are you planning on using the clutch fan for this? I tossed my AC condenser along with the AC pump and PS pump. So I had alot of space to work with.
Just out of curiosity what sort of budget are you planning for this? Once you get an idea of everything you need and an estimate of the costs, double the amount you come up with.
This is what I had bought before going into this project.
13B-RE Motor
Motor mounts/brackets
GT35R turbo and oil lines
RC fuel injectors
Tial wastegate
Tial Bov
Exedy hypersingle clutch/flywheel
Koyo radiator
Wolf 3D standalone
3 Bar map sensor
Walboro Fuel pump
Apexi GT spec exhaust
There's probably something important I'm missing and definately a ton of little stuff I didn't bother to list. An example would be a water temp gauge, the stocker didn't work with the standalone and I bought an aftermarket one. I still need/want to get an oil pressure/tmp gauges. The only things that work in my gauge cluster are the tach, speedo and fuel gauge.
After I had bought all that I set aside 3000 dollars to complete it all.
There were a number of technical issues and I blew well past that 3000 dollar excess budget. However in my case some of the excess could have definately been avoided. My tuner just could not get the wolf stand alone to work. I had to get something else, my tuner had zero experience with a haltech or microtech unit. He was certified in AEM ems. So I bought an AEM box and wired it into the wolf wiring harness. If you look up an AEM box, they're pretty spendy even for just the box. However it's got some very impressive features that I probably won't use. heh
Anyways after all that, there's a basic list of all the stuff I did for my swap. In hindsight the 13B-Re manifold is pure sex, but in terms of performance I may have been just as happy with a S5 13BT in there with all the extras bolted up, but it was a fun experience.
Oh one last thing I used the T2 coil packs and ignitors. If you're trying to keep the sequential turbo set up. First of all it'll be next to impossible to maintain the sequential set up. You can run them parallel if you want to keep cost down along with a t2 ecu rather than a stand alone.
Though as I've shown, if you're going to do it. Go ***** out and get it done the way you want the first time and do it right. Other than a bigger turbo and some kind of crazy fuel system, I'm pretty much done tinkering with the motor in terms of performance. 400whp with that set up.
A thorough search will show that the complete NA drivetrain won't last if you do a stock T2 swap into your NA. You can only guess how well it'd hold up to a twin turbo 13B-Re swap that pushes a little bit more power stock otherwise yes it'll bolt right up. I can understand not wanting to mess with the entire drivetrain, but it'll have to be done at some point since the NA stuff will fall apart. You may as well do it all at once.
For motor mounts and brackets, here's one spot beyond the two you've already checked that I know makes these brackets.
http://www.banzairacing.net/
My mounts and brackets came with my motor and I don't know exactly where they were made.
For the FMIC, I don't remember having to do any mods to the radiator. I do remember having to widen a hole and cutting a hole for the piping (or was it widen a couple of existing holes?). It's not too bad. Are you planning on using the clutch fan for this? I tossed my AC condenser along with the AC pump and PS pump. So I had alot of space to work with.
Just out of curiosity what sort of budget are you planning for this? Once you get an idea of everything you need and an estimate of the costs, double the amount you come up with.
This is what I had bought before going into this project.
13B-RE Motor
Motor mounts/brackets
GT35R turbo and oil lines
RC fuel injectors
Tial wastegate
Tial Bov
Exedy hypersingle clutch/flywheel
Koyo radiator
Wolf 3D standalone
3 Bar map sensor
Walboro Fuel pump
Apexi GT spec exhaust
There's probably something important I'm missing and definately a ton of little stuff I didn't bother to list. An example would be a water temp gauge, the stocker didn't work with the standalone and I bought an aftermarket one. I still need/want to get an oil pressure/tmp gauges. The only things that work in my gauge cluster are the tach, speedo and fuel gauge.
After I had bought all that I set aside 3000 dollars to complete it all.
There were a number of technical issues and I blew well past that 3000 dollar excess budget. However in my case some of the excess could have definately been avoided. My tuner just could not get the wolf stand alone to work. I had to get something else, my tuner had zero experience with a haltech or microtech unit. He was certified in AEM ems. So I bought an AEM box and wired it into the wolf wiring harness. If you look up an AEM box, they're pretty spendy even for just the box. However it's got some very impressive features that I probably won't use. heh
Anyways after all that, there's a basic list of all the stuff I did for my swap. In hindsight the 13B-Re manifold is pure sex, but in terms of performance I may have been just as happy with a S5 13BT in there with all the extras bolted up, but it was a fun experience.
Oh one last thing I used the T2 coil packs and ignitors. If you're trying to keep the sequential turbo set up. First of all it'll be next to impossible to maintain the sequential set up. You can run them parallel if you want to keep cost down along with a t2 ecu rather than a stand alone.
Though as I've shown, if you're going to do it. Go ***** out and get it done the way you want the first time and do it right. Other than a bigger turbo and some kind of crazy fuel system, I'm pretty much done tinkering with the motor in terms of performance. 400whp with that set up.
Last edited by JanusRN; 11-25-06 at 10:49 PM.
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11-26-06, 03:00 AM
#10
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Originally Posted by JanusRN
I've got an up and running 13B-RE swap into my 87 T2. So I'm talking from experience so I've got a bit of credibility though my car knowledge is weak compared others on the forum who've never even done the swap.
There's probably something important I'm missing and definately a ton of little stuff I didn't bother to list. An example would be a water temp gauge, the stocker didn't work with the standalone and I bought an aftermarket one.
If not, you can swap the FC 13B one in there, and it'll work.
The wiring does not run through the stock ECU; you can easily rewire this circuit so that your stock water temp gauge will work - it's just a single wire.
I still need/want to get an oil pressure/tmp gauges. The only things that work in my gauge cluster are the tach, speedo and fuel gauge.
It should just wire into the Cosmo sender.
If not, using an FC 13B oil pressure sender will do the trick.
Again, very minimal mods to make this work.
There were a number of technical issues and I blew well past that 3000 dollar excess budget. However in my case some of the excess could have definately been avoided. My tuner just could not get the wolf stand alone to work. I had to get something else, my tuner had zero experience with a haltech or microtech unit. He was certified in AEM ems. So I bought an AEM box and wired it into the wolf wiring harness. If you look up an AEM box, they're pretty spendy even for just the box. However it's got some very impressive features that I probably won't use. heh
Oh one last thing I used the T2 coil packs and ignitors. If you're trying to keep the sequential turbo set up. First of all it'll be next to impossible to maintain the sequential set up. You can run them parallel if you want to keep cost down along with a t2 ecu rather than a stand alone.
2) You'll need the Turbo II boost sensor.
3) You'll need to rewire the Cosmo TPS.
4) If you're using an S5 Turbo II ECU, you need to do something about the E-OMP.
I don't call this keeping the costs down, but it's definitely making things more complex.
Though as I've shown, if you're going to do it. Go ***** out and get it done the way you want the first time and do it right. Other than a bigger turbo and some kind of crazy fuel system, I'm pretty much done tinkering with the motor in terms of performance. 400whp with that set up.
-Ted
11-26-06, 09:47 AM
#11
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I set aside aprox 3k also after i had the engine and ecu
i still spent 9
japan2la use to sell mounts, thats where i got mine
dont bother with the n/a driveline.
i still spent 9
japan2la use to sell mounts, thats where i got mine
dont bother with the n/a driveline.
11-27-06, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ReTed
Originally Posted by JanusRN
I've got an up and running 13B-RE swap into my 87 T2. So I'm talking from experience so I've got a bit of credibility though my car knowledge is weak compared others on the forum who've never even done the swap.
That's a real arrogant thing to say...
I've got an up and running 13B-RE swap into my 87 T2. So I'm talking from experience so I've got a bit of credibility though my car knowledge is weak compared others on the forum who've never even done the swap.
That's a real arrogant thing to say...
Originally Posted by ReTed
Oh one last thing I used the T2 coil packs and ignitors. If you're trying to keep the sequential turbo set up. First of all it'll be next to impossible to maintain the sequential set up. You can run them parallel if you want to keep cost down along with a t2 ecu rather than a stand alone.
1) You'll need the Turbo II airflow meter - not very easy to plumb in.
2) You'll need the Turbo II boost sensor.
3) You'll need to rewire the Cosmo TPS.
4) If you're using an S5 Turbo II ECU, you need to do something about the E-OMP.
I don't call this keeping the costs down, but it's definitely making things more complex.
1) You'll need the Turbo II airflow meter - not very easy to plumb in.
2) You'll need the Turbo II boost sensor.
3) You'll need to rewire the Cosmo TPS.
4) If you're using an S5 Turbo II ECU, you need to do something about the E-OMP.
I don't call this keeping the costs down, but it's definitely making things more complex.
Originally Posted by ReTed
Though as I've shown, if you're going to do it. Go ***** out and get it done the way you want the first time and do it right. Other than a bigger turbo and some kind of crazy fuel system, I'm pretty much done tinkering with the motor in terms of performance. 400whp with that set up.
This just goes to show that you need to be careful what you read on here...
This just goes to show that you need to be careful what you read on here...
11-27-06, 11:45 PM
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Its not impossible to run the twins sequentially off a standalone. Go to the haltech section, there is a post about 5 or 6 down that describes how to do it. You would need to change some things owing to the fact that the RE setup is different from the rew setup, but it could be done at minimal expense of time and money.
The RE twins however suck bigtime. You could maybe make 300 WHP at the highest. My car made 260. Boost was falling off too much at the upper rpms.
The project can be done for allot less than 9K, but that doesn't mean its worth it. I started with an NA GTU. A t2 drivline with a new driveshaft cost about 1K. A haltech E8 Flying loom and innovative LC1 XD1 combo was 1600. the engine with tax was 1300. Clutch and flywheel (cheap XTD clutch) 400. Intercooler and piping (ebay) 350. Koyo and stainless radiator hoses and heater hose (500). engine mount adapters, new mazda comp engine trans and diff mounts, 350. Battery relocation (and gellcell battery) and water/egt and boost gauges, 500.
Thats about 6K just for the swap. I have at least another 3k in at this point with wheels tires and other stuff.
bottom line: Instead of doing this, I wish I would have saved up a little longer and bought a clean FD, that allready had the mods I wanted. When I am totaly finished with my car I may well be at the 13K mark+ the car. I guess its better than throwing money away on a new car and then selling it for a massive depreciation after a few years like so many people do.
The RE twins however suck bigtime. You could maybe make 300 WHP at the highest. My car made 260. Boost was falling off too much at the upper rpms.
The project can be done for allot less than 9K, but that doesn't mean its worth it. I started with an NA GTU. A t2 drivline with a new driveshaft cost about 1K. A haltech E8 Flying loom and innovative LC1 XD1 combo was 1600. the engine with tax was 1300. Clutch and flywheel (cheap XTD clutch) 400. Intercooler and piping (ebay) 350. Koyo and stainless radiator hoses and heater hose (500). engine mount adapters, new mazda comp engine trans and diff mounts, 350. Battery relocation (and gellcell battery) and water/egt and boost gauges, 500.
Thats about 6K just for the swap. I have at least another 3k in at this point with wheels tires and other stuff.
bottom line: Instead of doing this, I wish I would have saved up a little longer and bought a clean FD, that allready had the mods I wanted. When I am totaly finished with my car I may well be at the 13K mark+ the car. I guess its better than throwing money away on a new car and then selling it for a massive depreciation after a few years like so many people do.
11-28-06, 12:23 AM
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You know Slo, I had the same thoughts when it was all said and done. I was thinking, I could have bought a new car or an FD if I chose to with the amount of money I put into the car for everything.
What else exactly do you have planned for your car? Do you also have pics?
What else exactly do you have planned for your car? Do you also have pics?
11-28-06, 01:25 AM
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I took pics a while back when I was thinking of selling it but I can't find them now.
as to what else I have planned, I picked up a carbon locked 13b-rew complete with everything needed to make it run. Inluding a computer and a CARB legal intake. I have an extra blown re, basicly I'm going to put the 2 engines together and make an REW with RE irons. Use all the rew manifolds and make it look stock so that I can get it certified as a carb legal swap. I know a smog ref that will bend the rules slightly. Have the turbo's rebuilt as BNR stage 3's and roll around with the car quasi smog legal.
There are far wost investments in automotive world. My sister bought my grandmother a ford taurus in 99 at an employee plan discount for 22K. in 2004 with only 20K miles its Private party KBB was only 6800. If it had been a honda anything it would have been worth at least twice that.
as to what else I have planned, I picked up a carbon locked 13b-rew complete with everything needed to make it run. Inluding a computer and a CARB legal intake. I have an extra blown re, basicly I'm going to put the 2 engines together and make an REW with RE irons. Use all the rew manifolds and make it look stock so that I can get it certified as a carb legal swap. I know a smog ref that will bend the rules slightly. Have the turbo's rebuilt as BNR stage 3's and roll around with the car quasi smog legal.
There are far wost investments in automotive world. My sister bought my grandmother a ford taurus in 99 at an employee plan discount for 22K. in 2004 with only 20K miles its Private party KBB was only 6800. If it had been a honda anything it would have been worth at least twice that.
01-10-07, 06:08 AM
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can i keep my na rear end, or do i need to convert everything to t2 stuff? i was going to keep the cosmo ecu coils and ignters to keep things simple and sequential, is that possible?
01-21-07, 03:24 PM
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I love how people just assume that because I'm doing this project means that I'm racing it around. Also how they like to tell you what to do.
I want the motor completely stock. Bone stock. Just like it was in the Eunos. I'm not worried about power, because anything over 200bhp is worth it to me. I wanted to just use the stock ecu so i could keep it sequential and save money. I believe a n/a trans will hold personally, as long as i don't wail on it and make the power. Another reason to keep my transmission is I can't seem to find a TII rear end and I've been told that you can't hook a TII driveshaft into an n/a rear end. I'd love one eventually so that I could get an aluminum driveshaft. I know it seems odd, but the point is to have the motor put in for the absolute cheapest ammount possible. Buy the motor, radiator, mount adaptors and intercooler, do the work myself. I'm not building it to race it, just to drive it. All these extras are unnecessary for me. As for the sequential set-up, I'm not very well-versed in turbos at all. I can't even understand the sizing of them and how it dictates which one you need. I do know, however, that I can always learn. I'm good at that. I have faith that I can make them work.
I want the motor completely stock. Bone stock. Just like it was in the Eunos. I'm not worried about power, because anything over 200bhp is worth it to me. I wanted to just use the stock ecu so i could keep it sequential and save money. I believe a n/a trans will hold personally, as long as i don't wail on it and make the power. Another reason to keep my transmission is I can't seem to find a TII rear end and I've been told that you can't hook a TII driveshaft into an n/a rear end. I'd love one eventually so that I could get an aluminum driveshaft. I know it seems odd, but the point is to have the motor put in for the absolute cheapest ammount possible. Buy the motor, radiator, mount adaptors and intercooler, do the work myself. I'm not building it to race it, just to drive it. All these extras are unnecessary for me. As for the sequential set-up, I'm not very well-versed in turbos at all. I can't even understand the sizing of them and how it dictates which one you need. I do know, however, that I can always learn. I'm good at that. I have faith that I can make them work.
01-21-07, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by tigerboy rei i
I know it seems odd, but the point is to have the motor put in for the absolute cheapest ammount possible.
It's been 2 months since you started this thread.
Do you have anything to show for it?
-Ted
01-21-07, 03:54 PM
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Yeah, I scrapped two of my rx7's, bought and un-v8ed a fb, bought the motor with the ecu sensors and wire harness, and the radiator. I have 1 running n/a that's fixed up for winter(long story), and a nice body for the project with motor already removed.
P.S. does anyone know what wire to ground so the computer doesn't think it's in park the whole time?
P.S. does anyone know what wire to ground so the computer doesn't think it's in park the whole time?
01-21-07, 04:21 PM
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ss braided kit for what? oil cooler? a normal 2nd gen kit should work. i used the stock oil cooler lines on my cosmo re
turblown makes ss kits iirc, if your worried just have them make the longer line a few inches longer than normal
turblown makes ss kits iirc, if your worried just have them make the longer line a few inches longer than normal