Well, you could pick-n-pull a taurus alt AND a tempo alt, then swap the internals, put on a standard pulley and have...


...130 Amp Alternator Sweetness. :)

While you have them apart, polish the Tempo case, replace the brushes and bearings.

BTW, my Taurus alt is running flawlessly still.

Edit:

or maybe I could build you a bracket.

Why can't it ever be easy? Geezes. Ok, I am going to cancel my alternator purchase for now, and see if I can get more volts, just moving my sensing wire to a place other than the battery.

I wish I didn't have a TMIC so I could do an alt other than FD...or wasn't a sucker for A/C so I could relocate the alt. Till I'm better situated and have more experience things are what they are

Jack, today I have become a man... or well at least I get to join to league of 130 Amp Alternator Sweetness.

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1238722382

I think I had to do more work than you to get it to fit but it's in there. There was a bunch of grinding and a little bit of welding for the bracket since my initial measurements didn't work out. However, there is a small problem though. My idle is probably 600-700 and at that idle I get >13 volts. Anywhere else I get 14.0. Could it be I have a faulty alternator? or is this normal? I don't know how big the pulley is but I'd guess 2.5-3 inches.

My tempo alt is working flawlessly too :icon_tup: I think mines 90amp though I dont have a radio or anything to suck up juice with :lol:

Oh and for those that dont think the alts can handle the high revs of a rotary engine, I'm using the stock s5 alt pulley on the tempo alt, and I'm often around 5-8krpm for periods, no issues so far :)

I do get this random squeaking when its cold and my engine pops up to 3k rpm, it'll keep squealing till the rpms drop, or i can tap the throttle it stops and i can rev it abck up without squeaking, I think the belt is SLIGHTLY too loose, it only squeals for like 30seconds

I wouldn't see why it couldn't handle the higher RPMs. The insides for the tempo alt and the taurus alt is probably used in many more applications the only difference is the case.

hey yeti, you got the tempo alternator right?
Is it the 1 wire or 3 wire?

The 3 wire (The one with the plug like S5 style alt) will plug right into a S5

For s4 just do the procedure for a s5 alt in a s4

I have the taurus alternator. Also it does NOT plug in. the s5 plug has two wires and a b-terminal. and the taurus alt has three wires. and is made different.

Anyway, I guess the alternator I got was bad. because it's only 14volts where I first start the car.. once a start putting load on it goes down until the fan kicks on then it's 10-12.5 volts with fan and accessories on and maybe 13-13.5 while driving.. Any suggestions?

Ok, first of all-Nice Job on the Bracket!

Now about the voltage. None of this sounds like it is working correctly What is your idle speed? If your BAC is not working , your idle will vary thus voltage will vary at low rpms. It is normal, since the alternator is barely turning at acceptable speeds with our FC main pulley. I used a stock diameter pulley on the Taurus alt. I didn't want to over speed my alternator, so I didn't use a small pulley to essentially overdrive it-like TweakGames did originally. I knew that I might be slightly low volts at idle with everything on. For me the volts have been fine. I recently adjusted my TPS and then reset the idle speed. Now I idle at about 650rpm with all my accessories on. I do see a little lower volts than I did at 900rpm, maybe mid 13s. I am planning on resetting the idle to around 800rpm and I think this will stabilize my idle volts.

Next let's talk about the wiring: I saved the plug from the taurus and wired it into the harness of my S5. Let me see if I can get some info to help. I will take a look at mine to see if I can help you confirm that you have it in right.

Wiring:

On the Taurus plug there are 3 wires. See the Picture attached.

The middle wire is attached to a plug that loops back into the alternator. It should have a plug as pictured.

The largest of the two wires left is the 'S' wire on the S5 alternator loom. BTW, this is also the larger of the two wires on the S5 loom.

The smaller of the wires is the 'L' terminal-this goes to the smaller wire on the S5 loom.

Do this and it should work.

Good Luck.

Oh so they have 2 wire versions, I thought the s5 alt was 3 wire

The plug has 2, and the b terminal, 3 wires. MY MISTAKE

But regardless, my tempo alt looks exactly like the fc alt minus a few changes in the casing and the inability to put the b terminal thing on so it connects a the top, how did you guys solve this?

I don't understand your question. You have 2 wires on the plug. Are those connections made?
You have 1 connection-the 'B' wire-that is the heavy charging wire. Is this what you are having trouble with? Why can't you put the original ring around the post on the new alternator, tighten it down and pull up the boot?

oh it wouldn't fit, plus the b terminal on my tempo alt is long enough to touch the intake mani (on a s5)

doesnt bother me though

Yeah, I have mine wired the exact same but I didn't cut my harness (spades are in the s5 connector) I wanted to the able to undo anything I did.

I think I may have figured out my problem.. I think perhaps the b terminal isn't making a solid connection. and/or my battery is weak from my old s5 alt. I'm also guessing that either heat is hurting the alt or when the taurus fan kicks on it's really sucking the power right out of it. Pretty much everything is fine until the fan comes along but it's really starts to take the car down to running off the battery after a while of running.

My B-terminal wires are still the stock 12 or 10 gauge wires.. I'm going to have to replace the wires with 4 gauge or just piggy back it.

My alternator could be bad for all I know. it came off a taurus wagon with about 150k miles on it. My junkyard gave me a warranty so it's just heading down there to switch it out.

Well, mine came off a 150-160k miler as well. Check your connections. I saved my plug for the S5 alt-I left it plugged into the alt and put it on the shelf in reserve.

Check your connections. Your B wire should be pretty thick-it maybe 4 ga already. BTW, you can also take that alt to Autozone or Orielly's and they will put it on the machine for you and test it for free.

with any of these alts did they share the same S4 or S5 pulley, i have a gilmer pulley and need a better alt.. and grinding the pulley is something i dont really want to do but the fan is pulling so much power..

Maybe you could get your amp re-wrapped?

Thats what I did, stock fc alt, re-wrapped to 120a. It's not 130amp, but it gets the job done.

Works well so far, no worries.

No, the S4/5 alt have the same shaft diameters but all the other alts discussed, Taurus, Tempo, S6 have larger diameter shafts.

You are going to either bore your gilmer or have your S5 rewound.

Good Luck.

I just wanted to add to this. I've been researching for hours just trying to find out the best route to go with upgrading the alternator and keeping cost reasonable. To make a long story short, I am favoring the 3G alternator (the alternator that jackhild59 is using). It's borderline, but the large frame version (the one he is using) can handle a max of 15,000 rpms at the alternator shaft. Now, to calculate if you can use this particular alternator safely, you need to use this simple formula:
Alternator RPM = Engine RPM x Crank Pulley Diameter ÷ Alt Pulley Diameter
Now, in my given circumstance, my main pulley is 4.5" in diameter and my alt. pulley is 2.6" in diameter which gives me a 1.73:1 ratio. So, with my ratio, I will be spinning that large frame 3G alternator at 14,711 rpms @ 8,500 engine rpms (but 15,570 rpms @ 9000 engine rpms!).
It's cutting it close, but it's still within the limits when you're bouncing off the rev limiter :)
(unless your main pulley is too big and your alt. pulley is too small, then you might have some haphazard problems...)

Btw, here's a site that sells these alternators new in different configurations, including choosing which pulley setup you want (single v, double v, serpentine 6 or 8 rib).
Here are the small case 3g alt.'s but from what I have read, the spacing from end to end (bolt hole to bolt hole) is 8.25" apart as opposed to the large case 3g which is 7" apart (our stock alternators are 6.9" apart).
small case: http://www.qualitypowerauto.com/cata...Fcategory%3D45

large case: http://www.qualitypowerauto.com/cata...Fcategory%3D45

My preference is the large case 150 amp version for $145
http://www.qualitypowerauto.com/cata...Fcategory%3D45

in addition:
http://rjminjectiontech.com/?p=6
http://rjminjectiontech.com/?p=7

Already covered in Pages 1-3. You should have read instead of researched.:)

Pretty much covered on page 3-5, you simply found another supplier than the one posted earlier. Researching for hours?

I did read it through (one of the 1st threads I found) but I wanted to add a few things for those who are searching.
I originally dismissed it because brand new it's $185 (around here) and I wasn't considering a junkyard one because of the high possibility of it causing AC ripple because of it having a bit of mileage on it. Just because it appears to be charging great and working right, AC ripple causes many problems (I found out the hard way). My alternator had this problem for over a year now in my '91 and I was constantly tuning because all my sensors, ecu and injectors were getting ripples in the voltage therefore causing my tuning to always change and the car never ran as smooth as it should. I found this to be the case on 2 of the 4 different cars I have tuned, including my own (using megasquirt ecu). I just found out about the AC ripple from my friend yesterday who is a technician and he explained it to me. Therefore I was searching for something a bit less expensive and was considering the ford tempo alternator which is a more direct install or a few different GM style alternators. Either way, the pulley needs to be drilled out (unless you buy a v-belt pulley for the ford alternator elsewhere that is), which is not too big of a deal to modify. I wanted to add the links because they were for new 3g alternators that can be had with the v-belt pulley for a good price. I was also worried about overrevving such a large alternator because then it would have been ruined as well as a waste of money and time, which is why I added all the stuff about the alternator rpms, the formula, etc.
Just trying to help the forum :)

The only thing you posted new is the additional vendor; The crank to alt ratio 'formula' was back 3-4 pages, the revs at redline, including the max rpm that the alternator is rated.

Concerning your issue, *if* you have a voltage ripple, it's likely your alternator has a diode failing. A rebuild or any new alternator will fix this.

The other possibility is that you need to clean your battery cables :rolleyes: (increased circuit impedance).

How did you determine that you have voltage ripple? Have you had the car on a scope, or is this voltage ripple still in the theory/investigative stage? I wouldn't jump into a fix until you have diagnosed the problem electronically.

You can measure voltage ripple with a capacitor and a voltmeter set to A-C. Put the cap in series on the positive lead. If you have a ripple, you can now measure it.

Good Luck!

Here is the original thread, guys

Not to bring this thread back from the dead, but I've been working on this swap on my S4 TII. For the time being I'm using the chain link method mentioned earlier. Not really ideal but works until my friend with the welder gets some more gas. Earlier it was said that the 130A alt will not fit with the stock TMIC. Here you can see that it does indeed fit, it is just close. There is about 1mm of space between the alt housing and the lip of the TMIC. If you get a shorter belt you could have more clearance but the belt I have on here is the stock size +1/2" and it puts the alternator about halfway up the adjustment mount.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1520/1122091546a.jpg

I'm still doing the wiring portion since its going on an S4 but this is just to show it will fit under the TMIC. It doesn't look like it will clear my Tanabe strut tower bar though.

I know it's a thread resurrection, but has any of the 130 amp guys had issues with their Taurus alts yet? I just went with a 3.8L Taurus E-fan and Alt and it is kicking so much ass now. ATM, the Taurus fan is wired always on low speed with the ignition (with proper relay of course:lol:) and hi-speed isn't connected yet

But what worries me is that on a cold start, the in-dash meter was behaving like a tachometer at redline by bouncing off the halfway point between the 14v mark and 16v mark (I'm assuming it'd be 15v there). According to my toasted multimeter, it was reading 16.8-17.2 at the battery but I highly suspect the meter since it nearly caught fire the night before. With all this in mind, I was trying to siphon power off by holding both window switches down, heater maxed out, stereo and headlights on. That got it down to 14v according to the fried meter, but I stupidly didn't check the in-dash gauge.

This is from the Taurus Car Club of America for a 4th Generation Taurus, but should help everyone understand how a Taurus alt is wired. Here's a link to the original thread on there: http://www.taurusclub.com/forum/lofi...hp/t54559.html
After the car was fully warmed up it was behaving as the OP mentioned with anything over 1000rpm giving me a solid 14 volts no matter what I threw at it, according to the in-dash gauge. Man, these things are powerful!!!

Update on my issue: Got it fixed now, here's the wiring schematic for a S4 car getting a Taurus Alt:

A terminal (Yellow Wire): to Battery.
S Terminal: Loops back to single pin connector on alt
I Terminal (Green wire): to a 12v switched ignition source (horizontal pin on s4 alt connector is a good spot)

If you mix up the A and I terminals like I did before, it'll put the Taurus alt in panic mode because it'll only sense 12 volts instead of the actual output. So make sure you get these right. Otherwise, you'll blow the main fuse at best, or fry a lot of your wiring and electronics, if not catch the whole car on fire. As mentioned in my previous post, a taurus alt in panic mode will kick out 16+ volts easily.

Not ever one to rag on anybody.........but the (I )wire should go to the White/Black wire on the series four plug.......which is vertical??? not horizonal imho. White/Black is the excitation for the alt and also determines how the warning light cluster works when key is put to just ON.

I've been thinking about making one of those brackets made from angle iron. Just seems something that might be interesting to make. Hard for me to justify it though. I've 3 spare alts I've put new regulator in and are good to go if one of my cars alt goes out.

Even went to HomeDepot and spent waaaay too much money for a couple of feet of angle iron that I could have bought from Online Metal Store (actually located in my city) for much less dough. Lazy. Longer drive to that outfit. A good five miles further. Amazing how over priced the angle iron at HomeDepot is. A convience thing I guess. Like 7-11.

And the 'S' wire goes to the battery/ fuse block. It is the voltage sensing wire. I guess you can loop it to the 'A' terminal and have the RX7'equivalent of a one-wire alternater set up.

Home Depot=Kwiky Mart,:icon_tup:

Jackhild, which SBC alternator from Jegs are you using? I want the input shaft to match perfectly to my FC, but I'm not sure which diameter to get. I want the alternator to produce good amperage at idle, but not burn out during spirited driving.

Here is a link to Jegs with some SBC alternator pulleys:
http://www.jegs.com/p/Moroso/Moroso-...46077/10002/-1

Thanks for your help!

The pulley I used was exactly the same diameter as the RX7 alternator. I say exactly, I did not mic the OD of the pulley, but the visually and physically matched. The pulley came off a core return, sort of. :)

There is no wear showing on either side of the pulley.

I am now coming up on 3 years on this same alternator. I have put about 14,000 miles on that good old taurus alt. I hit 8000 rpm at least once nearly every time I drive the car. Not a glitch, not a squeak, just 14.1 volts.

Anyone worries that this Ford Taurus Alternator can't survive on a 'high rpm' engine should find something else to worry about.

Sorry to bring this zombie thread back to life but did anyone ever find out what pulley works with this?

Zombie thread? With 16,000 views?

I'm wounded.:(


The pulley that fits is from a Small Block Chevy alternator. The shaft size is perfect. Also I believe that a dual pulley for an FD alternator will fit.

When wounded..........first thing is to stop the bleeding. Learned that in the Army.

So that's what SBC stands for. See the attachment below.

Sorry guess I mixed up the years on the last post.

Thanks for the info I couldn't figure out SBC. Now I feel dumb. Lol

SBC is kinda a dirty word around here...

I'm giving this option a shot since I picked up a reman 95 taurus 3.8 alternator for dirt cheap. Its is going to my N/A RX-3 so I hope it can handle 10K RPM.

1. What size pulley is recommended as FB-FC pulleys are approx 1.75" (inside diameter) versus taurus 2.5"? V-belt part # also.

2. Jump stator plug with "S" wire. "A" wire (yellow/black) needs constant 12V just like the S5. "I" wire (green/red) volt meter or whatever.


Attachment 720699


3. Just want to confirm the following and advise if any grinding is needed (I'm sure I will find out when I start working on it but upfront info is greatly appreciated).
Attachment 720700

Belt adjusted side
Attachment 720701

Here is wiring.

Pulley is same size as the Mazda factory alternator. You need to specify a Small Block Chevy alternator pulley. Shaft size is same as the ford, rotation will be same as Mazda.

Good Luck

Friends, jackchild has lead you to the crest of a slippery slope.
Every reasonable response and hi-rez picture lures you to lean a little further, till before you know it, you're sliding.

It's slow and easy at first, you hardly realize you've imperiled the very soul of your RX.
It's only an alternator and anyway, didn't Ford own part of Mazda or summit?

So now there it is, clinging to the proud rotary like Selene atop Notre Dame...a Taurus alternator.
In Heaven, an angel has lost an apex seal.

You know what's next?
Scientists have a term for the Ford alternator, they call it "the gateway part".
Seemingly harmless, fun to use, no apparent side effects.

Then, six months later, the alternator isn't enough, you want more.
A bigger kick- preferably mainlined- of that sweet American technology.
That's right amigo, you want a V-8.

Did Jack fail to mention any of this while spieling his 130A snakeoil?

If you've already installed a Taurus alt, run out to your car immediately and pop the hood.
It's possible you sleepswapped the engine and aren't even aware of it.

Yes, that's a real thing.

Thasright kids. First more amps, then more torque.



It's all Juice.

I don't know why everyone is so hung up on the wiring. The Taurus alternator is a three wire plug-

BUT IT IS NOT A THREE WIRE CONNECTION TO OUR WIRING HARNESS!

The confusion is created if you do not have the original plug from the Taurus wiring harness as pictured below. The plug has the 'loop back' terminal already installed. Use it!

Now the only two wires you have to worry about are the S terminal and the L terminal. If you have an S5 this is all you need to know:




If you have an S5 or an S4, this wiring diagram is perfect. Once you understand the Taurus plug, you can wire the Taurus just like the FD alternator swap.


https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...hmentid=146552

Just one comment to add to this.

This alternator is simply larger, and that size prevents it from going down as far as a stock s4/s5 alternator. So it would be more than difficult to go with a belt much smaller (if any) than stock simply because of the larger alternator body size preventing you from pushing the Taurus alternator down far enough to get that smaller belt on.

This TMIC issue similar to when going with an S6/FD alternator with a strut bar that sit above it, thus limiting how far you can push it up to sufficiently tighten the belt. The fix is a slightly smaller belt akin to suggested fix for the TMIC issue. But that slightly smaller belt is a son of a bee to get on.

First hand knowledge of this. I had an FD alt on my S5 13B turbo. OEM length on my alt belts had the FD alt at the very top of my adjuster and had it rattling on my TMIC. I went to a shorter belt but it was a PITA to get the belt around the pulley. I had to put the belt on with the alt loose on top of the water pump housing. I had to work the long bolt into position so that it would go through the pump housing and thread into the alt.

I have recently upgraded to a modded 140 amp S5 alternator I bought on eBay. It's been on for about two weeks and no complaints so far. It handles my Taurus efan without even a hiccup.

Padding is still on the TMIC from trying to dampen the noise from alt on TMIC.
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...14504194_n.jpg

Looks good.

Don't forget that A/C belt!

-j

Thanks Jack!

Not only the a/c belt. I have to get a dual pulley for my FC alt. I sold the FD and the bling bling rotor shaped pulley (wasn't ever really my thing anyway). I haven't recharged the refrigerant yet since my rebuild was completed......and might be switching to the "other" type of a/c compressor. I have an a/c only bracket for whichever compressor I don't have (can't remember if i have Sanden or Nippon Denso). I may buy that one with hoses and go manual steering rack.

Speaking of which, I need to reread your thread on alternative refrigerants...that and I should probably do a build thread for my rebuild. Maybe someone can learn from some of my noob mistakes on my rebuild.

You FC guys are pretty damn funny sometimes :lol:

No, just clokker. The rest of us are either tragically flawed :mspank: or*way* too serious considering the platform.

Alright ive spent the last 2 hours mobbing through these 8 pages, and other Taurus e-fan writeups...

This may be a dumb question but no one has asked..

Rather than swapping Tempo's, Taurus alts ect onto our fc's, shimming, grinding ect to make them fit.

Is it possible to just mod the Factory s4 ALT for higher amps?

I mean JustJEff bought one off ebay for crying out loud. Save me the headache!