ericgrau

iTrader: (1)

I'm wondering if anyone here has replaced a broken DTSS with OEM parts instead of eliminator bushings. I heard it was $180, but then someone said it was $600 per side. So I called up a Mazda dealer, and he said it was $719 per side. What the heck? Over $1400 to keep DTSS? So is it totally impractical to fix if your DTSS is broken? Are eliminator bushings the only option now?

And how can I tell if mine is working or not? I was following a Subaru STi who was taking a turn pretty hard. Suddenly I found myself fish-tailing (didn't notice myself losing control). I gently compensated with the wheel and regained control though, thankfully. I didn't notice any "awkward feel", but that's probably because I don't know what other cars feel like on a hard turn.

fc3schick87

iTrader: (1)

http://www.speedmachineperformance.c...ctCode=RB14050
just replace them.
unless you can get a victoria british price. but i dont even think they will have the oem parts. just the eliminator

ericgrau

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I know about the eliminators. I'm asking whether or not it's feasible to fix the DTSS instead.

fc3schick87

iTrader: (1)

i'd like to say just go to the victoria british site and look it up but unfortunatly you have to order their catalog

speed_monkey

They have an online catalog. Also, its no longer victoria british. Try blackdragonauto.com

Valkyrie

You can buy a competition version of the DTSS bushings that are 40 percent harder... they cost more than the eliminators though. Still cheaper than new hubs, obviously.

ericgrau

iTrader: (1)

Where do I buy them???

slo

iTrader: (1)

+1 part number please

Valkyrie

Ask Mazdatrix...

It may be F128-28-42Y though...

Can't tell you how much they cost since apparently giving prices from Mazda Motorsports is a good way to get your membership revoked.

ericgrau

iTrader: (1)

So they're available through Mazda Motorsports or what? Through Mazdatrix?

EDIT: I googled F128-28-42Y. It is a toe control bushing for the FD, available through Mazda MotorSports.

So... anybody with some real answers?

theflatlander

iTrader: (3)

why are you so dead set on replacing the DTSS system? Just spend 40bucks on the eliminators install them and have a car that is more predictable. And ill assume the dealership gave you labor cost along with the parts that's prob. why is cost so much.

RETed

You're looking at around 6 hours of "shop labor" from the Mazda dealer per side...
Shop rates are usually about $100 / hour, so $700 which includes the parts isn't a surprising quote...


-Ted

idsigloo

Buy the eliminators. Do it yourself. Find someone with a press. It's not that hard. It took me maybe 6 hours for both sides.

elkin6

FB01-49-130(R) & FB01-49-140(L) from parts book

slo

iTrader: (1)

That would be the entire stock hub not the bushing not a comp part...

ericgrau

iTrader: (1)

Okay, I'll call them back and ask if the price includes labor, and if it's for both sides or per side.

EDIT: Called another dealer. $610 each, not including labor.

Now I know there are people who have fixed their DTSS instead of getting the eliminators. Would one of them please, please chime in?

And again...
Why? Do a search, it's been covered before.

ericgrau

iTrader: (1)

Okay, I'm rethinking an old, old idea to recreate the bushings. Here are the steps:

1. Get the stock rubber analyzed. I found at least 2 places that will do this; there are probably more. I'd be looking at up to $790+ to analyze all the components of the material. I'd need bushings in new condition to analyze the plasticizer content, since plasticizer evaporates with age. Or I'd get old bushings analyzed and learn some rubber engineering and determine how much plasticizer would be necessary to acheive the proper softness/firmness.

2. Get the dimensions for the pieces. I'd probably use a set of eliminator bushings.

3. Find a place to machine it. It'd probably be ~$50 a piece, for a total of $200 for 4 pieces (2 per side). It might easily be more for a custom material. Dunno if it would be molded into a block and CNC machined, or molded directly into its final shape (more expensive for small quantities, I think).

I imagine steps 1 and 3 would be a bit involved. It would take a bit of personal research to make sure I'd be doing it right, and a bit of money up front.

On a scale of concept (1) to production (5), this is a 1. Maybe a 0. I'd have to look into the matter a bit more carefully to so if this is even possible and how it could be done. And I'd need to gauge interest before getting that involved in the project <cough> <cough>.

RETed

I think you're overanalyzing the whole thing.
You're an engineer, right?

The DTSS eliminators are like $50 shipped?
Just do that.

The stock DTSS bushing is really wack.
There's like a sliding steel sleeve in there, and Mazda poured millions of dollars to get it right.
Trying to re-engineer that thing is going to be a nightmare.

With the DTSS eliminators, once you get used to the feeling, the car becomes a lot more stable.


-Ted

Red_Rabbit86

would dtss make drifting easier or harder?

turbo10th

iTrader: (6)

Harder because correct me if i am wrong but the dtss just adds more camber under hard cornering without dtss your camber will stay the same therefore allowing the car to be more predictable in the turns but little less stable unless you get use to it and know how to take a turn.

ericgrau

iTrader: (1)

DTSS improves cornering limits and compensates for throttle lift off, a common driving mistake that causes accidents (especially in rwd cars). Some people don't like how it "feels", but it most certainly gives better performance than no DTSS.

Drifters always remove DTSS because they want the rear wheels to be less grippy, not more.

I wouldn't be re-engineering the bushing, I'd be copying it. Straight-up reverse engineering. That's a whole lot easier.

The problem, I think, would be the up front cost in time and money. And most people barely even understand the DTSS, let alone know that theirs is broken and that they might want to fix it (or even know to eliminate it). So it may be hard to find others interested to help spread out the initial cost and reduce the per unit cost by producing many sets of bushings.

Yeah, I'm an engineer. And I've learned that it's not about knowing everything; it's about knowing how to find other sources that do. I'd be going to one company for analysis of the original part and another for machining or molding. I already found a company that does analysis, and I know another that does custom machining. I don't know exactly how/if the machining company handles custom materials.

MmSadda

iTrader: (2)

Cool, if you end up doing something, PLEASE PM me!

I would LOVE to replace my DTSS instead of elminating it.

Black91n/a

You've got to remember that the whole DTSS thing was in an era when rear wheel steering was all the rage and everyone had to have it. No one really uses it anymore, and it's not because cars are slower, less well engineered or anything. You've also got to remember that it was designed around the tires available in the mid 1980's. Well we're now into the latter half of the 2000's, and tires have gotten a lot better. With increasing cornering grip and different suspensions the DTSS will act differently and may not actually be good any more.

I installed DTSS eliminator bushings and don't have a problem with it. I track my car with R compounds and have coilovers and I wouldn't want the extra compliance in there. It doesn't lead to snap oversteer or unpredictability or anything like that. If anything it'd be more predictable because the toe's not changing on you.

SpeedOfLife

iTrader: (16)

Did no one else catch this??? lol
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/5933/lolzea5.png

Anyway, I think this is a decent thread. I felt my DTSS kick in for the first time on an on-ramp the other day and yeah, it felt really weird to me. I agree though that by understanding the system's purpose and function handling could be improved. I look forward to exploring that.

20Bforme

lolz!

the price they quoted you is outrageous... i say its really up to you if you want to just replace them with oem parts and keep the ddts... i opted for the eliminators, but i still need to have them pressed in... ill probably just end up using the press at work in the maintenance shop...