S4 as a first car?
04-11-09, 10:31 AM
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S4 as a first car?
Well I'm going to be turning 16 in a few months, and once I have completed the hours on my permit I'm highly considering purchasing an FC. I love the look of mid 80's early 90's sports cars, and the FC stood out from the rest due to my appreciation for the rotary. Now, would you fellows consider an FC as a first car? How's the upkeep on these puppies? Insurance rates? Should I really worry about the engine going to blow on me? I would like to keep it mainly stock for the time being, except maybe a different exhaust, but I wouldn't mod it loads because I would need money for college and other things.
Thanks fellows, excuse the noobism.
Thanks fellows, excuse the noobism.
04-11-09, 11:08 AM
#2
This question comes up on this forum almost daily; a search of the many replies will give you lots more detailed information.
I think the main concerns are:
1. Reliability/Repair costs - These cars are now 20+ years old, so things are going to break. If properly maintained by the previous owner, an S4 NA rotary can easily cover over 200,000 miles before needing an engine rebuild. (In my opinion, there were quite a few S5s that suffered from premature engine failure despite having had good maintenance, but by now, most of those cars have probably had a rebuild anyway...). That said, there are plenty of electrical gremlins to worry about, then you have to be concerned about rust. Not to mention that things will be wearing out because of age. Parts are not cheap, and many things need to be replaced with Mazda OEM parts which are not cheap. You can lessen the likelihood that your car will need tons of repairs by buying one that has lower mileage and/or has been carefully maintained, but that will cost more upfront. Don't expect this car to be as reliable as a 2009 Civic, but on the other hand, RX-7s will take care of you if you take care of them.
2. Fuel costs - If your car is in good tune, properly maintained, and driven with a fairly light foot, you can get 16-17 mpg in the city, 23ish on the highway in an NA. Some people on this forum claim higher numbers but in 13+ years of FC ownership, I've never managed it myself. Many claim to be getting much worse mileage! If low fuel costs are important to you, consider something like a Civic (or a Miata).
3. Finding one - I highly recommend being picky about this. Get the very best one you can find. Avoid one with any kind of serious rust because fixing it will generally cost more than the car is worth unless you're good at cutting and welding. In the Northeast, many FCs will have rust issues. Also, I'd avoid one that has had any kind of low-quality modifications done to it, especially anything involving splicing and cutting the wiring harness. Tracking down problems in that kind of car can be a real nightmare.
4. Insurance - Once you're over 26, these cars are actually very reasonable to insure because they're old and not worth all that much. For example, my '88 GTU is much less to insure than my '02 Dodge Caravan. On the other hand, insurance companies look for any way to gouge younger guys. Call your insurance agent for a quote before falling in love with an FC. I remember when I was a teenager, I called my agent for a quote for my '85 GLC and he told me he just got off the phone with a parent who'd bought his kid a new Camaro without checking the rates - it was $3000 a month!
You'll definitely want to check out the many articles in this site's archives. Do lots of searches and read as much as possible. Here are a couple links to get you started:
http://www.aaroncake.net/RX-7/tech1.htm
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/lucky-7/
I think the main concerns are:
1. Reliability/Repair costs - These cars are now 20+ years old, so things are going to break. If properly maintained by the previous owner, an S4 NA rotary can easily cover over 200,000 miles before needing an engine rebuild. (In my opinion, there were quite a few S5s that suffered from premature engine failure despite having had good maintenance, but by now, most of those cars have probably had a rebuild anyway...). That said, there are plenty of electrical gremlins to worry about, then you have to be concerned about rust. Not to mention that things will be wearing out because of age. Parts are not cheap, and many things need to be replaced with Mazda OEM parts which are not cheap. You can lessen the likelihood that your car will need tons of repairs by buying one that has lower mileage and/or has been carefully maintained, but that will cost more upfront. Don't expect this car to be as reliable as a 2009 Civic, but on the other hand, RX-7s will take care of you if you take care of them.
2. Fuel costs - If your car is in good tune, properly maintained, and driven with a fairly light foot, you can get 16-17 mpg in the city, 23ish on the highway in an NA. Some people on this forum claim higher numbers but in 13+ years of FC ownership, I've never managed it myself. Many claim to be getting much worse mileage! If low fuel costs are important to you, consider something like a Civic (or a Miata).
3. Finding one - I highly recommend being picky about this. Get the very best one you can find. Avoid one with any kind of serious rust because fixing it will generally cost more than the car is worth unless you're good at cutting and welding. In the Northeast, many FCs will have rust issues. Also, I'd avoid one that has had any kind of low-quality modifications done to it, especially anything involving splicing and cutting the wiring harness. Tracking down problems in that kind of car can be a real nightmare.
4. Insurance - Once you're over 26, these cars are actually very reasonable to insure because they're old and not worth all that much. For example, my '88 GTU is much less to insure than my '02 Dodge Caravan. On the other hand, insurance companies look for any way to gouge younger guys. Call your insurance agent for a quote before falling in love with an FC. I remember when I was a teenager, I called my agent for a quote for my '85 GLC and he told me he just got off the phone with a parent who'd bought his kid a new Camaro without checking the rates - it was $3000 a month!
You'll definitely want to check out the many articles in this site's archives. Do lots of searches and read as much as possible. Here are a couple links to get you started:
http://www.aaroncake.net/RX-7/tech1.htm
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/lucky-7/
04-11-09, 11:19 AM
#3
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Thank you so much, I will call to get an insurance quote and I'll do as much research as I can. Thanks I really appreciate it!
Generally, around how many mileage should I look for in an FC?
Generally, around how many mileage should I look for in an FC?
04-11-09, 11:29 AM
#5
My goal would probably be something in the low 100,000s, but even lower would be great. On the other hand, I would not rule out an obviously well-cared-for higher mileage car. However, I bought my '88 with 28K two years ago which replaced my old '90 that had only 130K on it but was totally riddled with rust after too many Pittsburgh winters. I will say it is nice to have such a low mileage car because hardly anything was broken, the interior still smells new, connectors were not rusted into blobs, etc. If you have time and can be patient, start scanning Craigslist, eBay, Auto Trader, this site, and local newspaper. Plan to spend a few months looking for the right car.
Last edited by daviddeep; 04-11-09 at 11:30 AM. Reason: Left out a letter
04-11-09, 12:06 PM
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Personally i would start off with a crappier car or drive your parents car until you know what you are doing. yes it is nice to have a sweet car when you start driving but nothing is sweet when it gets totaled.
My s4 vert was my second car right after i sold my 82 firebird. I have gone to many racing/driving schools and am often considered a very skilled driver for being only 17. Plus i autocross and drift.
These cars take money every chance they get and really shouldn't be driven in the winter especially if they are in nice shape. I currently own my vert and a TII that is my project car. I got my vert off craigslist for $1000 cash and it very nice and only had to spend about $1000 to get it there. My TII shell i paid the same for.
I also pay about $1400 per 6 months for insurance but i have coverage for my stereo, top, rims, tires, and any other aftermarket parts up to $3000.
BTW: i make $10 an hour as a manager and still dont make enough for gas, insurance, and the various other things this car needs and thats all i have to pay for.
My s4 vert was my second car right after i sold my 82 firebird. I have gone to many racing/driving schools and am often considered a very skilled driver for being only 17. Plus i autocross and drift.
These cars take money every chance they get and really shouldn't be driven in the winter especially if they are in nice shape. I currently own my vert and a TII that is my project car. I got my vert off craigslist for $1000 cash and it very nice and only had to spend about $1000 to get it there. My TII shell i paid the same for.
I also pay about $1400 per 6 months for insurance but i have coverage for my stereo, top, rims, tires, and any other aftermarket parts up to $3000.
BTW: i make $10 an hour as a manager and still dont make enough for gas, insurance, and the various other things this car needs and thats all i have to pay for.
04-11-09, 12:49 PM
#7
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I think if you have the money to maintain an rx7 properly and you can be/ are a mature driver, even if you are only turning 16. An NA could be a great first car. Like everyone else is saying. If you're good to the rx7 it will be good to you. You just have to keep the maintenance up.
I've had my Turbo II for 2 years now, and it's never failed me.
I have weird things go out on me that typically arnt supposed to go out, like my CAS. I did my rebuild on this car at about 130k. And since then i've had ZERO problems. These cars are fun, and they are fun to learn about. Just be careful that you dont get one that wants to break all the time - like daviddeep said, you need to choose very carefully.
It's a love/hate relationship.. so be prepared for hardships along the way if you do decide to get one.
I've had my Turbo II for 2 years now, and it's never failed me.
I have weird things go out on me that typically arnt supposed to go out, like my CAS. I did my rebuild on this car at about 130k. And since then i've had ZERO problems. These cars are fun, and they are fun to learn about. Just be careful that you dont get one that wants to break all the time - like daviddeep said, you need to choose very carefully.
It's a love/hate relationship.. so be prepared for hardships along the way if you do decide to get one.
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04-11-09, 12:51 PM
#8
if you really want an rx7, get one thats in great condition and was owned by someone who is an rx7 enthusiast, dont buy the cheapest one imo. The FC is my 3rd car, started out with a s13 240sx back in 02, which was super reliable i drove it everywhere til i started modding it and it became a theft magnet since they became popular.
My FC was built /modded by JTP who is a pro D1/Formula D drifter, Being that he took great care of everything and pieced it all himself, all I have to do is keep up the maintenance and its super reliable. Of course my car cost me typically more than what people on this forum would say, but it was worth every penny. Starting to add my taste/mods to it.
Tend to see alot of FCs out here in socal for sale on craigslist because their owners failed to keep em in good condition while modding em etc.. Id stay away from poorly modded ones, esp those with gutted interiors are no fun honestly. Ive known a few people who gutted their interiors and honestly those where the biggest piles of **** ever.. If its for track only, its cool, but wont make any difference on a streat car.
My FC was built /modded by JTP who is a pro D1/Formula D drifter, Being that he took great care of everything and pieced it all himself, all I have to do is keep up the maintenance and its super reliable. Of course my car cost me typically more than what people on this forum would say, but it was worth every penny. Starting to add my taste/mods to it.
Tend to see alot of FCs out here in socal for sale on craigslist because their owners failed to keep em in good condition while modding em etc.. Id stay away from poorly modded ones, esp those with gutted interiors are no fun honestly. Ive known a few people who gutted their interiors and honestly those where the biggest piles of **** ever.. If its for track only, its cool, but wont make any difference on a streat car.
04-11-09, 01:43 PM
#9
My 2nd car was a T2. It was only 2400 and was the best cared for FC I've owned. (out of 4)
It was all stock, 116k on the clock.
One like this is going to be hard to find anymore.
When it came down to it, I was spending about a car payments worth EVERY month on shop bills. And that was just maintainance. I eventually got rid of the car for a newer car with payments. The car wasn't nearly has fun or clean as the FC, but at least I had it all 30 days of the month...
It was all stock, 116k on the clock.
One like this is going to be hard to find anymore.
When it came down to it, I was spending about a car payments worth EVERY month on shop bills. And that was just maintainance. I eventually got rid of the car for a newer car with payments. The car wasn't nearly has fun or clean as the FC, but at least I had it all 30 days of the month...
04-11-09, 03:06 PM
#10
my first 7 is a 87 GXL(s4 NA). i got it almost a year ago and i have been DDing it and i put about 5k miles on it. i have never had any problems with it(knock on wood.) when i got it it was in questionable shape. i took it to my buddy and he tuned it, fixed ALL the electrical (radio, all int lights, and a bunch of other stuff didnt work), and put a new clutch in it. ~$400 also bought a new sunroof assy. $50. thats all ive done to the car in a year becides change the oil and top off the fluids. i would say for a car with 155k miles it runs very strong and i wouldnt hesitate to drive it across country if i had extra fluids with me, haha.
as for insurance, im 21 years old and my insurance is about 400 every 6 months (i have a reckless driving and about 2 other speeding tickets, none in the FC) so thats not so bad.
i would highly recommend a S4 NA, IMO theyre the more reliable of the FCs.
as for insurance, im 21 years old and my insurance is about 400 every 6 months (i have a reckless driving and about 2 other speeding tickets, none in the FC) so thats not so bad.
i would highly recommend a S4 NA, IMO theyre the more reliable of the FCs.
04-11-09, 10:38 PM
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Personally i would start off with a crappier car or drive your parents car until you know what you are doing. yes it is nice to have a sweet car when you start driving but nothing is sweet when it gets totaled.
My s4 vert was my second car right after i sold my 82 firebird. I have gone to many racing/driving schools and am often considered a very skilled driver for being only 17. Plus i autocross and drift.
These cars take money every chance they get and really shouldn't be driven in the winter especially if they are in nice shape. I currently own my vert and a TII that is my project car. I got my vert off craigslist for $1000 cash and it very nice and only had to spend about $1000 to get it there. My TII shell i paid the same for.
I also pay about $1400 per 6 months for insurance but i have coverage for my stereo, top, rims, tires, and any other aftermarket parts up to $3000.
BTW: i make $10 an hour as a manager and still dont make enough for gas, insurance, and the various other things this car needs and thats all i have to pay for.
My s4 vert was my second car right after i sold my 82 firebird. I have gone to many racing/driving schools and am often considered a very skilled driver for being only 17. Plus i autocross and drift.
These cars take money every chance they get and really shouldn't be driven in the winter especially if they are in nice shape. I currently own my vert and a TII that is my project car. I got my vert off craigslist for $1000 cash and it very nice and only had to spend about $1000 to get it there. My TII shell i paid the same for.
I also pay about $1400 per 6 months for insurance but i have coverage for my stereo, top, rims, tires, and any other aftermarket parts up to $3000.
BTW: i make $10 an hour as a manager and still dont make enough for gas, insurance, and the various other things this car needs and thats all i have to pay for.
Thanks guys, now the search for the right FC begins.
04-11-09, 10:50 PM
#14
so GL man hope you find a nice car!
04-11-09, 10:51 PM
#15
04-12-09, 11:12 PM
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well i think the big thing is, as many people have said it is a serious love hate relationship. I got mine as my second car its an 88 and it had 63k on it when i drove it home. I was the 3rd owner first was an old guy/sunday driver and second kid was in the military and put 13k on it for the 2 years he had it.
I think its a great second car, my first was a 94 honda hatch and god damn did i beat the **** outa that thing. Crashed it 3 times trying to be an uber ricer. So my suggestion to you is get a crappy car either your parents or your own to get out all of your teenage angst in and then step up to an rx7. The world is rittled with crappy ricer hondas and not enough genuine sports car mazda's, do us all a favor buy a honda for your first car crash it three times (sell it for a $1000 to a wannabe ricer) and then like i did buy yourself a nice rx7
I think its a great second car, my first was a 94 honda hatch and god damn did i beat the **** outa that thing. Crashed it 3 times trying to be an uber ricer. So my suggestion to you is get a crappy car either your parents or your own to get out all of your teenage angst in and then step up to an rx7. The world is rittled with crappy ricer hondas and not enough genuine sports car mazda's, do us all a favor buy a honda for your first car crash it three times (sell it for a $1000 to a wannabe ricer) and then like i did buy yourself a nice rx7
04-13-09, 12:41 AM
#21
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I agree with above, get something else first. Alot of my friends (myself included) have either wrecked, or just had major bad luck with the cars getting beat up. Just seems to be that way for new drivers, despite how "good" of a driver you may be. Once you do that, then go for the 7. Good luck with whatever you decide! Be safe!
04-14-09, 08:57 PM
#22
I got my S4 FC with I was 14, and I've still got it now and I'm 18 
And I put 100 miles on it in out driveway in 4 months, no joke. You should be fine with it if you're responsible. Don't drive like a badass once you turn 16 and slide backwards into ditches because you knew nothing about snap-oversteer, and don't try to think of everything you can paint red to make it look 'cooler'. Check the oil weekly and fix all the broken **** and you'll be good to go. My FC had 212K on it when I got it, and now it has 263K on the STOCK build and I can still break traction in 2nd with my new exhaust 
. Insurance isn't that bad, but they haven't found out about the speeding ticket I got when I was 16 yet, either. And it probably helps that a 65 year old is the primary driver and I'm the 2nd...
And if you get a ratty car, clean the hell out of it a lot. It makes you appreciate it more and once you start making it look better you feel better about it.
And I put 100 miles on it in out driveway in 4 months, no joke. You should be fine with it if you're responsible. Don't drive like a badass once you turn 16 and slide backwards into ditches because you knew nothing about snap-oversteer, and don't try to think of everything you can paint red to make it look 'cooler'. Check the oil weekly and fix all the broken **** and you'll be good to go. My FC had 212K on it when I got it, and now it has 263K on the STOCK build and I can still break traction in 2nd with my new exhaust . Insurance isn't that bad, but they haven't found out about the speeding ticket I got when I was 16 yet, either. And it probably helps that a 65 year old is the primary driver and I'm the 2nd...And if you get a ratty car, clean the hell out of it a lot. It makes you appreciate it more and once you start making it look better you feel better about it.
04-14-09, 09:04 PM
#23
strike up the paean
being a fellow nj resident, i cannot recommend getting a s4 as a first car.
all the FCs local are beat and rusted to hell. electrical gremlins almost a definite.
a NJ s4 is through and through a project car. i mean, let's be serious. **** is 20 years old. in jersey that means 20 years of jersey roads and 20 years of winter salt. just about every FC i've seen desperately needs an overhaul.
if i were you i'd wait till you were decently established, buy one, rip it apart and put it all back together with new parts. in the meantime, get something you can have fun in and not worry about 24/7. mod at your leisure. either that or buy someone else's project FC that's been restored already. but then you run the risk of problems you can't solve or a hacked up but cleverly disguised disaster.
not that a FC can't be a daily driver. but you'll have to get used to **** failing on you piecemeal. if it's not one thing it will inevitably be another. i cannot count the number of times my girlfriend has been left stranded by her s4. the only reliable thing has been the engine, ironically. 170k and no signs of slowing down. n/a rotaries last forever. i wish i could say the same for the rest of the car.
all the FCs local are beat and rusted to hell. electrical gremlins almost a definite.
a NJ s4 is through and through a project car. i mean, let's be serious. **** is 20 years old. in jersey that means 20 years of jersey roads and 20 years of winter salt. just about every FC i've seen desperately needs an overhaul.
if i were you i'd wait till you were decently established, buy one, rip it apart and put it all back together with new parts. in the meantime, get something you can have fun in and not worry about 24/7. mod at your leisure. either that or buy someone else's project FC that's been restored already. but then you run the risk of problems you can't solve or a hacked up but cleverly disguised disaster.
not that a FC can't be a daily driver. but you'll have to get used to **** failing on you piecemeal. if it's not one thing it will inevitably be another. i cannot count the number of times my girlfriend has been left stranded by her s4. the only reliable thing has been the engine, ironically. 170k and no signs of slowing down. n/a rotaries last forever. i wish i could say the same for the rest of the car.
