Pulsation damper failure victims - READ THIS!
03-08-02, 09:46 PM
#26
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I have a question about the pulsation damper. Does a very strong gas smell always precede the failure of the damper? I noticed a very very slight smell of gas coming from my engine bay the other night, could that be it? Or is that relatively normal?
Thanks,
Ike
Thanks,
Ike
03-08-02, 11:11 PM
#27
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
My question would be?
How many failures happened on FCs with less than 100k miles on them and less than 10 years?
If there is (as I suspect) very few under that time/mileage frame, I would doubt that it would be coinsidered anything more than a typical high mileage part repair?
How many failures happened on FCs with less than 100k miles on them and less than 10 years?
If there is (as I suspect) very few under that time/mileage frame, I would doubt that it would be coinsidered anything more than a typical high mileage part repair?
03-08-02, 11:53 PM
#28
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Happened to me too
Right. I just bought an '88 GTU about three weeks ago- first time owner, long time admirer. I smelled gas after filling up, sure, but didn't think a thing of it. It came in really strong on the right side of the cabin, and a friend of mine said it gave her headaches the couple of times she rode it. She and her dad got more and more insistent that I take it in - so I finally did and found out about taking the manifold off etc. etc. a full day's labor plus ridiculous parts quotes from Mazda. "No way!" thought I. "I've been driving it for two weeks & it'll be O.K." Anyhow, she busts my *** for driving it once ("I had a feeling you were going to die!") and I start looking stuff up. I then find God knows how many pages like "Don't let your 7 burn!" and "Pulsation damper problems - READ THIS" with 8x10 glossy color photos of the gruesome corpses. Began to understand that 40 psi gasoline may at any moment spray onto an eighteen hundred degree manifold. Saw a couple of sites where there were sob stories about people getting told their RX was going to burn and then having it happen two days later. Needless to say, I'm towing it wherever it needs to go until I get it fixed. Thank Providence for my friend - it could have burned and I would have only known a couple of weeks of driving that lovely though wounded car.
Dirty Frank
'88 GTU
Dirty Frank
'88 GTU
03-09-02, 01:22 AM
#29
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Thread Starter
These stories sound very familiar...  I thought my friends were all smoking crack when they told me my car smelled of gasoline.  I just thought my car was modded enough to SMELL that way - any of the old-school V8 knows what I'm talking about. 
The gasoline smell got a little stronger evertime I drove it but eventually plateaued out to a constant level - I didn't let it bother me.  The night the FC finally did catch on fire, I was on the freeway doing some street racing up to 120mph.  Yes, I was on some heavy boost in short spurts.  I didn't even know my car was on fire.  My friend was tailing me at the time and hurried to catch up to me to tell me my car was on fire!  Imagine if I had been alone and no one told me my car was on fire...  I surely said my prayers that night!!!
My suggestion...you smell gasoline at ANY time while driving, check the pulsation damper.  There were threads about keeping a fire extinguisher inside your FC, I still do that - it's very good insurance to keep around.  Most portable fire extinguishers are under $20 - is it worth keeping your car safe???
This is really NO excuse to be a typical wear item.  If you think a potential vehicle fire (and loss of life) can be surmised to preventive maintenance, you've got bigger ***** than I do.  After being in this situation where I could've gone up in a ball of fire, you seriously feel mortality crashing down on you.  There is NO reason why a car manufacturer would have their vehicles have the potential to catch on fire, PERIOD.  Look at the Ford Pinto...the Ford truck with side gas tanks.  Hell, little closer to home - do you know about the coolant recall for the FD3S (3rd gen RX-7) that Mazda initiated that prevented possible engine fires???
-Ted
The gasoline smell got a little stronger evertime I drove it but eventually plateaued out to a constant level - I didn't let it bother me.  The night the FC finally did catch on fire, I was on the freeway doing some street racing up to 120mph.  Yes, I was on some heavy boost in short spurts.  I didn't even know my car was on fire.  My friend was tailing me at the time and hurried to catch up to me to tell me my car was on fire!  Imagine if I had been alone and no one told me my car was on fire...  I surely said my prayers that night!!!My suggestion...you smell gasoline at ANY time while driving, check the pulsation damper.  There were threads about keeping a fire extinguisher inside your FC, I still do that - it's very good insurance to keep around.  Most portable fire extinguishers are under $20 - is it worth keeping your car safe???
This is really NO excuse to be a typical wear item.  If you think a potential vehicle fire (and loss of life) can be surmised to preventive maintenance, you've got bigger ***** than I do.  After being in this situation where I could've gone up in a ball of fire, you seriously feel mortality crashing down on you.  There is NO reason why a car manufacturer would have their vehicles have the potential to catch on fire, PERIOD.  Look at the Ford Pinto...the Ford truck with side gas tanks.  Hell, little closer to home - do you know about the coolant recall for the FD3S (3rd gen RX-7) that Mazda initiated that prevented possible engine fires???
-Ted
03-09-02, 03:05 AM
#31
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Pulsation Damper
I have been reading about the crappy PD on the FC vehicles since I have been around this forum. I know they are prone to leak and start fires, and I know the conversion to the 89-91 type is a solution, but there is a cheaper solution available.
An earlier reply stated the purpose of the PD was to smooth out pulses of fuel from the fuel pump. This is incorrect. The fuel pump is a centrifugal pump and as such has no pulsations in its cycle. The pulses come from the rapid on and off of the fuel flow from the quick cycling of the injectors. This is the exact same thing as the pipes knocking and hammering in some homes when the water is shut off quickly at a faucet. It is the same thing as water hammer. Since liquids can't be compressed the hydraulic shock when a fast flowing liquid is suddenly stopped is transferred to the structure that encloses the liquid. The shock is tremendous. I have personally seen a fire engine pump crack in two pieces because a firefighter shut the nozzle valve off too quickly and caused a severe water hammer. There is a relief valve on fire engines to compensate for this but they do not always react quickly enough, particularly if they are not set correctly.
The pulsation damper is a shock absorber. Its diaphragm takes the shock and allows the inertia of the flowing fuel to be gradually reduced. The neat thing about this is that the PD does not have to be located where it is on the Rex engine.
The PD can be thought of like a condensor on an points type ignition system. It can be located anywhere between the points and the coil, and the same thing applies to the PD. It can be located anywhere in the fuel supply line. As far as I know all multi-port injected engines have a PD in the system. Most of these systems have the PD mounted away from the engine. All you need do is modify the existing PD by tapping into the fitting with 1/8' NPT thread, then run a short hose to a remote location away from the engine, then mount a PD from another car. A decent parts supply counter man will be able to furnish several PD types to select from. I intend on doing this in the coming week and will furnish exact part numbers and photos when I do.
An earlier reply stated the purpose of the PD was to smooth out pulses of fuel from the fuel pump. This is incorrect. The fuel pump is a centrifugal pump and as such has no pulsations in its cycle. The pulses come from the rapid on and off of the fuel flow from the quick cycling of the injectors. This is the exact same thing as the pipes knocking and hammering in some homes when the water is shut off quickly at a faucet. It is the same thing as water hammer. Since liquids can't be compressed the hydraulic shock when a fast flowing liquid is suddenly stopped is transferred to the structure that encloses the liquid. The shock is tremendous. I have personally seen a fire engine pump crack in two pieces because a firefighter shut the nozzle valve off too quickly and caused a severe water hammer. There is a relief valve on fire engines to compensate for this but they do not always react quickly enough, particularly if they are not set correctly.
The pulsation damper is a shock absorber. Its diaphragm takes the shock and allows the inertia of the flowing fuel to be gradually reduced. The neat thing about this is that the PD does not have to be located where it is on the Rex engine.
The PD can be thought of like a condensor on an points type ignition system. It can be located anywhere between the points and the coil, and the same thing applies to the PD. It can be located anywhere in the fuel supply line. As far as I know all multi-port injected engines have a PD in the system. Most of these systems have the PD mounted away from the engine. All you need do is modify the existing PD by tapping into the fitting with 1/8' NPT thread, then run a short hose to a remote location away from the engine, then mount a PD from another car. A decent parts supply counter man will be able to furnish several PD types to select from. I intend on doing this in the coming week and will furnish exact part numbers and photos when I do.
03-09-02, 10:16 AM
#32
Senior Member
damn guys i have this fuel smell and i could see the fuel squirts onto the driver side of the engine... from under the intake manifold towards the spark plug side.. and it wet the top of my rotor housings.. this only happens when i start my car during the mornings and then when the car drives around some what .. it goes away... the 2 gas lines come into the car from that way but i dont think that the PD could squirt the other way.. and both the 2 lines look fine... so what do u guys think? i have a 91 na
03-09-02, 12:07 PM
#34
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Wow great thread Ted! I will be filing a complaint.
My car is not running right now because of an engine fire. So far I have replaced the wire harness, oil injector lines, Fuel lines, and all Vacuum hoses. The wire harness and oil injector lines were a PIA to replace.
I still have to finish scraping the old gasket off the lower manifold, install a banjo bolt in place of the PD and get my injectors back from RC engineering. Than I can start putting the top half of the engine back together. And just hope that the fact the car has been sitting for 3 months hasn't frozen anything in place.
I have been taking the Bus or riding my bike to work every day for the past 3 months. It SUCKS!
The only way I can describe what seeing your car go up in flames feels like is to quote what ReTed already said.
"It was the sickest feeling watching your car burn on the side of the road."
George
My car is not running right now because of an engine fire. So far I have replaced the wire harness, oil injector lines, Fuel lines, and all Vacuum hoses. The wire harness and oil injector lines were a PIA to replace.
I still have to finish scraping the old gasket off the lower manifold, install a banjo bolt in place of the PD and get my injectors back from RC engineering. Than I can start putting the top half of the engine back together. And just hope that the fact the car has been sitting for 3 months hasn't frozen anything in place.
I have been taking the Bus or riding my bike to work every day for the past 3 months. It SUCKS!
The only way I can describe what seeing your car go up in flames feels like is to quote what ReTed already said.
"It was the sickest feeling watching your car burn on the side of the road."
George
Last edited by 7Rebel; 03-09-02 at 12:10 PM.
03-09-02, 12:32 PM
#35
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For any of you people out there that *still* don't think this is a serious issue...
My brother's '87 turboII caught on fire about 2 1/2 years ago. Seems like it the fire started as he was on the off ramp! The stop light he noticed smoke coming out the the hood scope. He immediately pulled into the gas station close by to check it out. He opened the hood and the fire just got bigger from the increased oxygen supply. Finally, he ran into the store and yanked the fire extinguisher and luckily put it out before it spread to the passenger compartment and else where.
While he was not hurt, the RX-7 sure was. We thought he was lucky to see it so quickly and take action but under close examination:
Pulsation damper was the cause. The result was:
ALL FOUR injectors were burnt
Both OIL injectors were burnt
ALL the little vacuum lines you all dread about coming loose....they were ALL burned
EGR Valve...gone
ACV gone...
BAC in very bad shape
TPS was partially burned
the Solenoids were very brittle
and a number of other parts.
The most important thing though...THE WIRING HARNESS was completely toasted. I'm sure TED's major price tag came with replacement of this.
We took the car into a "rotary" mechanic to give us an estimate. After a $200 inspection fee (basically removing the four upper intake bolts) he said that we are looking in the price range of about $2000-$5000, depending on the way that we wanted to go about fixing it. If we wanted it fixed for the low price, there would be no warranty because we would have to supply the parts (at an extra charge obviously).
Long story shorten, we ended up buying the parts from the local wrecking yards and the partstrader and did the job ourselves (first major work on the FC--other than a tranny replacement
I think parts came out to about ~$800 or so all used though. Luckly this car made it alright. There was no way we were going to total a great condition low mileage TurboII because of the stupid Pulsation damper (only 65K and it still leaked!!)
That's not all folks...my friend's TurboII caught on fire as well..I'll spare the details on that one.
My current 87 turboII smelled like gasoline two summers ago and I check it out and indeed it was leaking..a good nose and JB weld saved my life.
Also worth mentioning. About 1 1/2 years ago in the street racing streets of San Diego there was an unfortunate 87 turboII on fire as he was trying to flee like the rest of us from the cops. We stopped and helped them put the fire out...guess what the cause of the fire was??? PD! Luckily the cops didn't ticket him..Are you on this forum?
So ALL FC AND MAZDA ROTARY owners have been warned...this is a REAL threat!
Damn that was a long post!
My brother's '87 turboII caught on fire about 2 1/2 years ago. Seems like it the fire started as he was on the off ramp! The stop light he noticed smoke coming out the the hood scope. He immediately pulled into the gas station close by to check it out. He opened the hood and the fire just got bigger from the increased oxygen supply. Finally, he ran into the store and yanked the fire extinguisher and luckily put it out before it spread to the passenger compartment and else where.
While he was not hurt, the RX-7 sure was. We thought he was lucky to see it so quickly and take action but under close examination:
Pulsation damper was the cause. The result was:
ALL FOUR injectors were burnt
Both OIL injectors were burnt
ALL the little vacuum lines you all dread about coming loose....they were ALL burned
EGR Valve...gone
ACV gone...
BAC in very bad shape
TPS was partially burned
the Solenoids were very brittle
and a number of other parts.
The most important thing though...THE WIRING HARNESS was completely toasted. I'm sure TED's major price tag came with replacement of this.
We took the car into a "rotary" mechanic to give us an estimate. After a $200 inspection fee (basically removing the four upper intake bolts) he said that we are looking in the price range of about $2000-$5000, depending on the way that we wanted to go about fixing it. If we wanted it fixed for the low price, there would be no warranty because we would have to supply the parts (at an extra charge obviously).
Long story shorten, we ended up buying the parts from the local wrecking yards and the partstrader and did the job ourselves (first major work on the FC--other than a tranny replacement
I think parts came out to about ~$800 or so all used though. Luckly this car made it alright. There was no way we were going to total a great condition low mileage TurboII because of the stupid Pulsation damper (only 65K and it still leaked!!)That's not all folks...my friend's TurboII caught on fire as well..I'll spare the details on that one.
My current 87 turboII smelled like gasoline two summers ago and I check it out and indeed it was leaking..a good nose and JB weld saved my life.
Also worth mentioning. About 1 1/2 years ago in the street racing streets of San Diego there was an unfortunate 87 turboII on fire as he was trying to flee like the rest of us from the cops. We stopped and helped them put the fire out...guess what the cause of the fire was??? PD! Luckily the cops didn't ticket him..Are you on this forum?
So ALL FC AND MAZDA ROTARY owners have been warned...this is a REAL threat!
Damn that was a long post!
03-10-02, 02:23 AM
#39
03-10-02, 02:58 AM
#40
Thats not an FC...
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Haynes repair manual, Page 140, section 17, Pulsation Damper.
"locate the pulsation damper on the front end of the primary fuel rail. It's hard to see because its buried beneath the extension manifold (see illustration). Place your finger on the pulsation damper, it should pulsate" (duh)
thats where its at.
the fuel rail that you can can CLEARLY see, thats the secondary fuel rail. the primary is on the opposite side of the runners, UNDER the top half of it.
i think its safe to say that ANY time you smell the odor of raw fuel under the hood of your car, means you have some sort of FUEL leak. either that, or fumes are leaking out of the intake, which should never happen if your car is not taken apart.
the car should Never smell like raw fuel. exhaust odor is ok, thats to be expected *especially if you have a gutted cat or No cat.
so far ive been lucky. 105k miles on an 88 NA, and counting.
chris
"locate the pulsation damper on the front end of the primary fuel rail. It's hard to see because its buried beneath the extension manifold (see illustration). Place your finger on the pulsation damper, it should pulsate" (duh)
thats where its at.
the fuel rail that you can can CLEARLY see, thats the secondary fuel rail. the primary is on the opposite side of the runners, UNDER the top half of it.
i think its safe to say that ANY time you smell the odor of raw fuel under the hood of your car, means you have some sort of FUEL leak. either that, or fumes are leaking out of the intake, which should never happen if your car is not taken apart.
the car should Never smell like raw fuel. exhaust odor is ok, thats to be expected *especially if you have a gutted cat or No cat.
so far ive been lucky. 105k miles on an 88 NA, and counting.
chris
03-10-02, 10:40 AM
#41
Senior Member
that website posted said that 89-91 have the Pulsation Damper already integrated into the primary fuel rail?? so do us 89-91 have the same problems?? or a bound to have the same problems??
03-10-02, 10:56 AM
#42
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Originally posted by 13B2QuIcKNy
that website posted said that 89-91 have the Pulsation Damper already integrated into the primary fuel rail?? so do us 89-91 have the same problems?? or a bound to have the same problems??
that website posted said that 89-91 have the Pulsation Damper already integrated into the primary fuel rail?? so do us 89-91 have the same problems?? or a bound to have the same problems??
George
pd
03-10-02, 01:25 PM
#44
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Re: pd
Originally posted by blue88gxl N/A
Where can you buy a Pulsation Damper??
or do you have to go the the junkyard??
Where can you buy a Pulsation Damper??
or do you have to go the the junkyard??
I have a used one from a 87 in good condition that I'm selling for $15.00 shipped.
George
03-10-02, 03:20 PM
#46
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Originally posted by NoPstnsNoProblm
Is it possible to put a S5 PD on an S4?
Is it possible to put a S5 PD on an S4?
03-11-02, 01:49 AM
#47
I wish I was driving!
I'm curious about Ted's price of the engine harness. When mine burnt due to an electircial fire, I got a new one from Mazda for $850 CDN, shipped and taxes. This is the harness that goes through the passenger side of the firewall, and wires up to all the fuel injectors and bac avlves and such. It does not include the harness for the alternator and starter, that is sold separately, or the main harness for the headlights and such.
I have talked to some other forum members and they said the price was about the same ($500 USD, + taxes).
Quality of the new harness was excellent, and I was pleased overall with everything save the price.
Sean Cathcart
I have talked to some other forum members and they said the price was about the same ($500 USD, + taxes).
Quality of the new harness was excellent, and I was pleased overall with everything save the price.
Sean Cathcart
03-11-02, 05:10 AM
#48
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While I have had the fuel puddles, obviously accompanied by the smell of raw fuel, I have (knock on wood) never had an engine fire. Can I still file with NHTSA for the failure? I never took one apart, so I can't say for sure that was the cause, and I don't have one of my cars here to look at, either.
Ren
Ren
03-11-02, 05:21 AM
#49
Super Newbie
The screw was backed out of mine. I snugged it back up and JB Welded it over until I get around to pulling the injectors out and having them cleaned. I still get a slight fuel smell when I am in boost.
03-11-02, 06:51 AM
#50
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My GFs sisters friend (ya i know friend of a friend kinda thing 
) had a 87 GXL. After coming home from work, he parked his car, got out and noticed it was on fire. No fire extinguisher around, and that thing got burned to a crisp. The whole car went up. I'll try to get him to fill it out. He was pretty pissed off at the time.
) had a 87 GXL. After coming home from work, he parked his car, got out and noticed it was on fire. No fire extinguisher around, and that thing got burned to a crisp. The whole car went up. I'll try to get him to fill it out. He was pretty pissed off at the time.