ramses666

iTrader: (1)

Has anyone seen or heard of a whipple-charged 20b that was fuel injected? I've seen one with carb's, but never heard or seen one that was fuel injected. Just curious because I had a turbo powered jet in mind for the exhaust & would prefer to supercharge the front end of the 20B.

Ramses666

KeloidJonesJr.

iTrader: (8)

Whipple?

Attila the Fun

iTrader: (1)

Wasn't he the guy who compulsively squeezed the Charmin?

Seriously, http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/

Alak

iTrader: (9)

Some say whipple superchargers are the best 'Screw type' supercharger ever invented.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

This isn't mine, but I helped get it running.

Evil Aviator

Some even say it is the only "screw type" supercharger ever invented. Well, the only one commercially produced anyway.

Yes, and he squeezed it much more efficiently than the Roots brothers.

Alak

iTrader: (9)

Yeah, I suppose roots blowers were never really classified as screw type. The rotors were more shaped like a pencil tip than anything. And most of the 'fins' were straight.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Roots blowers have peanuts in them. Really wide peanuts.

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

Well, I guess that means that no one knows if there is a fuel injected, whipple charged 20b? I mean... the whipple supercharger is the most efficient one currently manufactured. I would guess that the size for the charger would be about the same as for a normal piston 4.0 liter engine(2 stroke vs. 4 stroke) & that the air to water after cooler & airflow bypass valve would be fairly easy to make work with a custom intake. I was thinking about 500-600 Hp on pump gas with a good street port. Any ideas or comments?

Ramses666

Roen

iTrader: (2)

I thought Kenne (sp?) Bell's were better than Whipple's?

slo

iTrader: (1)

What would be the temperature of the intake charge coming into a well tuned wipple charged engine making 600 horsepower?

There is no opportunity here for intercooling except with nitrous. I don't think you could make 5-600 horsepower reliably on pump gas.

Nihilanthic

There is absolutely no reason why you cant whipple charge anything. Carbs and blowers tend to work together with v8s for bang/buck drag racing because superchargers tend to make up for the probs carbs have. Easy starts and throttle responce? Yes please!

As far as on a Rotary, it could work, but most guys go turbo because theyd rather use the energy going through the exhaust pipes than just let it keep going. But if you are gonna do that, then get a standalone, some collected headers for scavenging, and a 20b to start. Oh, and decide if you wanna go with 9.x:1 compression and high octane or 'turbo rotors' for lower compression and more boost or have it on 93 octane.

Then figure out how to bolt it up to a plenum and belt-drive it and whatever throttle body setup youre going to use (ITBs in a single plenum for the blower to huff into comes to mind, if youre going 20b, why not blow even more money?) and rig up your standalone EFI (injectors, map sensor, TPS sensor, etc), find a way to fit it under the hood of whatever car you're doing it in unless you cut the hood or put in a cowl, and work on your drivetrain. A T-II tranny would work fine, but youre going to need some serious DR's to hook up for dragracing. If you want to corner with it, well, thats even MORE work.

Yeah, its doable, but its going to be involved, lengthy, compllicated, expensive, and require more knowhow than most people who pose "whatifs" can do.

****, a 20b on its own is pricey and lengthy, doing a custom supercharger application is going to require trips to machine shops and fabrication! Not trying to shoot you down here but even following in someone elses footsteps and doing a 'common' swap is a task in and of itself. And a hell of a lot less expensive than paying the price to blaze the trail and find out if its effective, and if its not, living with that.

Nihilanthic

Go look at the compressor map of one. Depends on which particular model whipplecharger, where you are on the map, and the temp of the charge at the inlet for the supercharger before its compressed. So, the short answer is "lol i dunno"

EDIT: I think I found some comp maps: http://not2fast.wryday.com/turbo/maps/#lysholm

EDIT #2: Wow, thats a lot of information in one graph to digest at once. Too bad I cant turn off specific data sets to look at a few at a time. The "discharge temperature" assumes an intake temp of 20C, so its only a reference point. (read the fine print!) But, eh, still, there you go, it even has lines for how much power the supercharger itself draws from the engine in kW!. You can conver kW to watts: one kilowatt = 1.34102209 horsepower.

Anyway, with 4 liters of displacement, and low compression he most certainly could. Whipplechargers are hardly inefficient (its not a roots) but the biggest issue with making power would be the fact that its a rotary, meaning inefficiency and need for a good tune and fuel control.

If its "done right" 5-600 hp is not a problem at all. Its just going to be a bit of a bitch to fabricate custom brackets to hold everything together and make a custom plenum/intake, because I seriously doubt theres jack **** out there to make this a bolt up and belt-up affair.

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

Yo! Nihil... good points... the whipple guys have a cupronickel after cooler setup for the chargers. I don't see a whole lot of extra expenses considering that you would need a stand alone EMS anyway and just some brackets & custom intake & throttle body with injectors. Also redoing the accessory belt setup. I had figured on 93 octane gas for a boosted engine. As far as cost goes... if you explore new territory there are always added expenses. Custom fab work is expensive no matter who you are. I have even more bizarre ideas for the exhaust, but maybe that should be another thread. Really just trying to find out if the fuel injected whipple-charged 20b has been tried, but all comments are appreciated.

Ramses666

RoTaRyBoYz

there are several cars in OZ running superchargers....heres a pic of one

RoTaRyBoYz

heres the link for Paul's blown 20b
http://www.aeromanagement.com.au/blown3rotor/index.html

also heres 2 pics of a pickup with a blown 20b

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

WOW!! Those are some awesome blown 7's!! I was more into the low profile aspect of the whipple-charger, something less obvious, but those are great examples. I was thinking that once all the intakes & un-needed parts were removed that there would be plenty of room for a low-profile whipple-charger & after-cooler setup that would fit under the hood without anything sticking out. I've been looking at how short the deck clearance was when all the intakes and emmision stuff was removed.... it seemed like at least 6 to 8 inches of clearance if not 10. Anyway keep the comments coming.

Ramses666

RoTaRyBoYz

did u notice the magnetos on th rx7, its just sick 8-)

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

Magneto's??? Looks like a separate distributor for leading & trailing plugs. Notice only three outputs on each six plug distributor are hooked up. What do you mean Magneto's? Anyhow... No one has seen or heard of a Fuel-injected whipple-charged 20B? OK Any discussion & comments are welcome.

Ramses666

digitalsolo

iTrader: (2)

And the rest of us say they were reselling blowers from Lysholm/Autorotor in Sweden.

Whipple rolls their own now though. Good parts, owners are a little strange though.

Evil Aviator

So in other words, there is basically only one screw type supercharger ever invented.

There is a good history page on the Whipple website:
http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/....asp?PageID=80

RX-7 owners are a little strange, too.

Same thing.

A Roots type supercharger does not use a screw effect to move the air, but rather it simply moves the air by scooping it along the outside edges of the case. An Eaton (improved Roots) supercharger may have helical rotors and an axial inlet, but it works the same way as the original Roots. The twin-screw type supercharger does use a screw effect to compress the air internally and move it from the front to the rear of the supercharger (or vice versa). See the airflow pictures here and note the screw effect of the twin-screw supercharger:
http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=76

True, but a professional could. Sometimes you need to get out of the ghetto if you want a top-notch engine. Both Pettit and PFS have built reliable 20B RX-7 conversions producing 550-600hp on pump gas.

A magneto is a combination of a generator, coil, and breaker points. It is usually used in applications where reliability and/or simplicity is more important than accuracy, efficiency, and tuneability. Given the insanely large size of the mags in that picture, along with the external coils, I am going to assume that the engine is running on alcohol and the owner had difficulty finding a modern automotive ignition system that would work at high boost levels.

The first picture posted by RoTaRyBoYz does have a Whipplecharger, and it appears to be set up for mechanical fuel injection, which is exactly what you asked for. Don't you like the "low profile"?

A stock 20B-REW produces its peak torque at only 3000 rpm and drops by only 10% by redline. What do you expect to gain by spending thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of work on a custom twin-screw supercharger conversion?

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

Wow! I could have been a little more clear in stating my question. I was thinking about a "streetable" electronically fuel injected 20B with a whipple-charger/aftercooler. I'm not particularly looking for a drag only application. Although They are interesting examples. The setup I'm looking for would need to fit under the hood.

What do I expect to gain? Hmmm... I think I would gain a different HP & torque curve than a turbo, different throttle response, possibly better reliability, a more predictable & tunable setup with the proper EMS. It would be different from all the other ones as well & finally, I had the insane idea of using the exhaust gasses to run a turbo to pump air into a jet exhaust for crazy jet boost effect with a sick afterburner Flames. So that would be a reason to use a supercharger instead of a Turbo on the 20B. Could you imagine?!?

Ramses666

rarson

Why not just mount a screwcharger on the side, intercool it, and feed it to the other side of the engine? Then you wouldn't have to worry about the hood clearance.

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

Exactly. U have seen the vision. Very simple. Have Motor built, Make bracket. Fab intake. New EMS. Buy whipple charger. New exhaust. Spend lots of $$$$$, Redo everything else. = Super Car

Ok... I can handle That.


Ramses666

Roen

iTrader: (2)

found this, thought it'd be interesting.

http://www.kennebell.net/techinfo/fo...RvsLYSHOLM.pdf

Only thing is, these days, Whipple makes their own superchargers.