T56 swap into 20b - RX7Club.com - Mazda RX7 Forum

T56 swap into 20b

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Old 07-23-17, 02:35 PM
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T56 swap into 20b

I got the QuickTime bellhousing. Looks like a well made unit. It has edges that are larger than the stock bellhousing, so if you're close to the firewall, you will need to clearance it.

Having said that, I ran into a first problem:

The LS1 T56 input shaft protrudes from the front plate of the T56 6.46 inches. The QuickTime bell measures 6.00 in depth.

This means that the input shaft will stick out from the bellhousing-engine mating surface 0.46" which I know is way too far out. It needs to be almost flush--I think the stock setup has about 1mm (about 0.03-0.04 inches) of stock pilot shaft protruding from the bell-engine mating surface.

I think I'm the first to try to do this with quicktime bell. Before I go with custom input shaft route, is there an appropriate input shaft I can use from other models that will stick out 6inches rather than 6.46inches? Thank you.
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Old 07-23-17, 11:15 PM
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call liberty gear they will make you what ever you want there doing mine for like 300 something bucks
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Old 07-24-17, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by stickmantijuana View Post
I got the QuickTime bellhousing. Looks like a well made unit. It has edges that are larger than the stock bellhousing, so if you're close to the firewall, you will need to clearance it.

Having said that, I ran into a first problem:

The LS1 T56 input shaft protrudes from the front plate of the T56 6.46 inches. The QuickTime bell measures 6.00 in depth.

This means that the input shaft will stick out from the bellhousing-engine mating surface 0.46" which I know is way too far out. It needs to be almost flush--I think the stock setup has about 1mm (about 0.03-0.04 inches) of stock pilot shaft protruding from the bell-engine mating surface.

I think I'm the first to try to do this with quicktime bell. Before I go with custom input shaft route, is there an appropriate input shaft I can use from other models that will stick out 6inches rather than 6.46inches? Thank you.
Check with Havoc, he did this (on a FC), but same trans and bellhousing:

https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo...ative-1082861/

AusRotary.com ? View topic - T56 TR6060 to FC3S conversion
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Old 07-24-17, 08:13 AM
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yea I just pm'd havoc and he said it sits flush and not poke out 0.46". I'm waiting on his picture, or if you're reading havoc, please feel free to post it here too.

Only difference is that he has manual bellhousing, and I got the auto bellhousing. unless the thickness of the bell & steel plate is thicker on the manual housing, or the online t56 dimensions are wrong, this doesn't make sense.

I think i have clutch + flywheel option figured out at $1200 which is rated to 650ft-lb. it's quartermaster rally-v twin clutch 7.25". the quartermaster tech team (Russel) own a rotary and was more than willing to help!

awaiting havoc's reply at this point.
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Old 07-24-17, 12:56 PM
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I know to use a miata Trans on the 13b you swap the bell from an S4 in and then grind the input shaft down about an inch.
Mazdatrix has a write up on what they do.
https://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/miatainputshaft.htm


Sounds like you have even less to remove.
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Old 07-24-17, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Gilgamesh View Post
I know to use a miata Trans on the 13b you swap the bell from an S4 in and then grind the input shaft down about an inch.
Mazdatrix has a write up on what they do.
https://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/miatainputshaft.htm


Sounds like you have even less to remove.
the picture shows them just shortening the splined portion shaft and retains the pilot/input shaft length.

you don't want to cut too much of pilot shaft since that will center and provide stability for the input shaft. it's about 1" long, so removing 1" would be not very optimal.
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Old 07-26-17, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by stickmantijuana View Post
yea I just pm'd havoc and he said it sits flush and not poke out 0.46". I'm waiting on his picture, or if you're reading havoc, please feel free to post it here too.

Only difference is that he has manual bellhousing, and I got the auto bellhousing. unless the thickness of the bell & steel plate is thicker on the manual housing, or the online t56 dimensions are wrong, this doesn't make sense.

I think i have clutch + flywheel option figured out at $1200 which is rated to 650ft-lb. it's quartermaster rally-v twin clutch 7.25". the quartermaster tech team (Russel) own a rotary and was more than willing to help!

awaiting havoc's reply at this point.
I have the quartermaster twin clutch ( i think the same you are mentioning) and it has very bad drivability with my T56. Worse than my Exedy triple disk had. To verify, check to see if it is the same clutch that Howard Coleman posted in his converstion. He has since changed to another clutch as well. You should investigate what Howard went to.
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Old 07-26-17, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by vincentrx7 View Post
I have the quartermaster twin clutch ( i think the same you are mentioning) and it has very bad drivability with my T56. Worse than my Exedy triple disk had. To verify, check to see if it is the same clutch that Howard Coleman posted in his converstion. He has since changed to another clutch as well. You should investigate what Howard went to.
he's using a mcleod rst custom with an fd auto bell housing same as me
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Old 07-27-17, 10:46 PM
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well that's a bummer... I specifically asked for the most streetable clutch they had. It's 7.25" v-drive twin clutch. P/N is 298090ry. I appreciate the heads-up.

Same stack is being used in evo and they are getting great reviews. well I already ordered them, and I hope I would like it because then we would actually have a very affordable clutch option for all those looking to put t56 behind a rotary without any custom work.
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Old 07-28-17, 06:31 PM
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The McLeod RST Clutch is amazing. You get all the power holding you could imagine in a twin disc, full-face organic setup. It's the ONLY option I'd run with T56 for a street car.

We have one in my neighbor's 2010 Camaro SS and it's excellent. It'll last 2x the lifespan of his OEM too, which I find remarkable.
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Old 07-29-17, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by stickmantijuana View Post
well that's a bummer... I specifically asked for the most streetable clutch they had. It's 7.25" v-drive twin clutch. P/N is 298090ry. I appreciate the heads-up.

Same stack is being used in evo and they are getting great reviews. well I already ordered them, and I hope I would like it because then we would actually have a very affordable clutch option for all those looking to put t56 behind a rotary without any custom work.
def keep us posted the reason i didnt use it is because everything i read about and everyone i talked to said that a 7.25 clutch is not friendly on the street at all
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Old 07-31-17, 07:53 PM
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I just did this to a 13b. My measurements for the length issue was .51", so we chopped the splines down .58" for safety and turned it down to the outer diameter of the pilot(Don't remember that measurement).





Bellhousing: https://www.holley.com/products/driv.../parts/RM-4091








Motor/fab work by Angel Motorsports







Shifter fitment. I cut a little bit out, you can see where the original boot bolt holes are for reference. And excuse the mess, haven't gotten around to re-painting the interior yet.



Realistically, I think you can make a thicker plate that goes in-between the bell housing and motor with proper dowels. But this was my question option.
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Old 08-02-17, 09:39 PM
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thanks for the photos!

hey is the flywheel for the auto bellhousing slightly smaller than the manual flywheel?

My new flywheel by quartermaster measures 11.5" in diameter. and my Exedy for manual FD trans measures 12.5" in diameter.. pictures attached.

thanks!
Attached Thumbnails
T56 swap into 20b-20170802_182753.jpg   T56 swap into 20b-20170802_182725.jpg  
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Old 08-04-17, 09:56 AM
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nevermind. The quartermaster flywheel is a non-turbo wheel, and they don't make turbo flywheels. That's why the diameter was 1" too small. Mazdatrix with aluminum ring gear will work with quartermaster clutch but will last a few months in a street car--appreciate their honesty.

soo... I'm back to square one. McLeod clutch sounds great and all, but they don't make the flywheel and that needs to be custom made by beyondredline who is only interested in whole kit for 3k. No thanks.

I'm open to suggestions. My next option is clutchmaster or spec who say they have triple disc setup for 1500-2k but it won't be too streetable. Tilton and spec keep trying to sell me their carbon as "streetable" but both company say their clutch needs to be shimmed every few months which I don't consider street at all. Carbonetic is out of business. Exedy will work but their tech support is useless when it comes to putting their own parts together to accept t56 26spline shaft with FD flywheel.

I did find a really good company who can remachine any friction disc center to accept different spline pattern -- californiaclutch.com. They can also make a custom pressure plate. This may be an option. I can send an FC push style Exedy clutch and just machine the center hole of the friction disc.

if you guys can think of any better options, I'm all ears. I'm leaning toward californiaclutch to modify my FD clutch orrr go with triple disc.
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Old 08-04-17, 10:16 AM
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hey LoU "hOw Ya Do", are you sure you and Howard are using RST clutch? McLeod keep saying RST is too big for our flywheel surface.

I think you have McLeod Mag Force twin p/n 681712-00-07. It's a twin clutch that you need to press in the stock ring gear.
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Old 08-04-17, 07:21 PM
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LoU "hOw Ya Do", I think you're wrong.

I talked with McLeod at length. I talked with Billy who is one of their techs.

He said RST pressure plate bolts are 12.8" apart. Our ring gear outer diameter is 12.5". There is no physical way to fit RST clutch onto our flywheel. Impossible!

Most likely, Howard is running the MagForce twin by McLeod which is smaller iron sintered disc which is considered a "race" clutch for whatever it's worth. If he raves about it, he must have very high tolerance for clutch feel.

Mag Force P/N is 681712-00-07. The TO bearing you need is P/N: 14-302. Both sell for about $2400-2500 on summitracing.

I think I am leaning toward clutchmaster option--850 twin disc clutch. Will update when I can.

SPEC offers the best value at $1300 WITH bearing. I am just weary about going solid triple disc. Cluchmaster has low rate spring to keep chatter down and one of the disc is sprung.. it seemed like it's the most street-oriented clutch of them all. The total price was $2300-2400 shipped for clutchmaster. If that doesn't work, I probably give SPEC clutch a shot.
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Old 08-05-17, 01:34 PM
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yea i'm sure its an rst its a custom setup made by beyond redline using a mcleod clutch and custom flywheel you cant buy it off the shelf beyond redline sells it only
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Old 08-05-17, 02:08 PM
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Old 08-05-17, 02:23 PM
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trust me when i tell you that i have done more research then you could have ever believe on this topic. I'm telling you the only reason i didn't use the quicktime setup that you are using is because of clutch options. there is maybe 3 company's that make 7.25" clutch setups and they are not fun to drive on the street at all its a nightmare. thats why the auto FD bell option was the best at least thats my opinion. with beyond redline making there custom setup and how the drivability is with the power it can hold to me was a no brainer.
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Old 08-05-17, 02:51 PM
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about the bell, I thought I was limited to 7.25 too. but the QT bellhousing fit my exedy twin disc! which is 8" friction disc diameter and it definitely has room for more. I'm giving clutchmaster a shot which has 9" friction diameter. I'll report on that next weekend.

My contention with the RST is simply this: when I talked to the tech Billy at McLeod, I was adamant there are already people using RST on our flywheel. After some back and forth he got the RST clutch, took a tape measure, and told me the bolt for the pressure plate is 12.8" apart. Mind you, our ring gear is 12.5" in outer diameter (I posted a picture of it). It's physically not possible to fit RST onto our flywheel. unless Howard is running a larger flywheel than stock but that doesn't seem likely since he said he pressed in the stock ring gear to make it work. Besides I doubt anything larger will fit our auto bell since there is hardly any extra space between flywheel and the oem bell inner diameter.

so that's my research so far. Either the tech (Billy) at McLeod was lying or Howard was mistaken about the model name. I think it's much more likely that Howard may be mistaken about the model name because there is an exact product he seems to be describing--the Mag Force which comes complete with everything (including 26spline friction disc and FD flywheel) that you just need to press in the ring gear into which Howard said he had to do.

after flopping on the quartermaster offering, I really wanted the RST also. It was cheaper and had very good reviews. The techs at McLeod says the clutch is larger than our flywheel. That's the end of discussion, no? unless you or howard has a unique solution we don't know about. not trying to be argumentative but what McLeod is saying make Howard's post not possible. I'm absolutely not calling him a liar. I just think he got the model name wrong.


Originally Posted by LoU "hOw Ya Do" View Post
trust me when i tell you that i have done more research then you could have ever believe on this topic. I'm telling you the only reason i didn't use the quicktime setup that you are using is because of clutch options. there is maybe 3 company's that make 7.25" clutch setups and they are not fun to drive on the street at all its a nightmare. thats why the auto FD bell option was the best at least thats my opinion. with beyond redline making there custom setup and how the drivability is with the power it can hold to me was a no brainer.
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Old 08-05-17, 04:14 PM
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FWIW, i am pulling my T56 tomorrow as reverse has always been a problem and i am going to get it tuned up.

i will check on my clutch package.
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Old 08-06-17, 02:29 AM
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ok so me and stickmantijuana talked on the phone earlier today and went over our setups and what we both know. so it looks like the QT bell can hold a bigger setup then a 7.25" clutch were not 100% but he will have conformation on this in a few weeks. also i'm going to call up IR Performance on monday to check my clutch and see if its that other mcleod clutch stickmantijuana was talking about. or if howard beastsme to it when he takes his tranny out. either way if that QT bell holds a bigger clutch and flywheel setup this will open up a whole lot more options with the T56 setup

anyone reading this that wants a t56 setup stay tuned lol
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Old 08-06-17, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by stickmantijuana View Post
I got the QuickTime bellhousing. Looks like a well made unit. It has edges that are larger than the stock bellhousing, so if you're close to the firewall, you will need to clearance it.

Having said that, I ran into a first problem:

The LS1 T56 input shaft protrudes from the front plate of the T56 6.46 inches. The QuickTime bell measures 6.00 in depth.

This means that the input shaft will stick out from the bellhousing-engine mating surface 0.46" which I know is way too far out. It needs to be almost flush--I think the stock setup has about 1mm (about 0.03-0.04 inches) of stock pilot shaft protruding from the bell-engine mating surface.

I think I'm the first to try to do this with quicktime bell. Before I go with custom input shaft route, is there an appropriate input shaft I can use from other models that will stick out 6inches rather than 6.46inches? Thank you.
Every QT bellhousing I have installed had a plate between the engine and bellhousing. This is mandatory to be qualified as explosion proof.

The rotary transmissions I am familiar with had a lot more than 1mm protrusion past the bellhousing face, this combined with the block plate should make everything line up.

THAT SAID. Every T56 QT bellhousing I've installed also needed some significant shimming and in some cases machining in order to get the transmission on axis with the engine. So I wouldn't worry about trans depth until you find out if you need to get the trans mounting surface faced.

This is the reality of low production parts, you need to do the final machining and checking yourself. Nothing aftermarket is bolt on and go.
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Old 08-06-17, 10:24 AM
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i hear that lol its a **** show on how many times i had to change things around after buying something that was "bolt in"
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Old 08-07-17, 02:39 AM
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Hi Stick,

Sorry didn't realise you had a thread.

WOW I never knew that quicktime had a clutch Dia size limit.
Well I didnt follow it.....

I think in my writeup on AR I run the Direct clutch setup. Im sure its a 8"

It fit no problems at all

I think techincally they even sell the setup now for the fly wheel and plates for the TR6060 (t56)

Rotary to Tremec T6060





Direct Clutch - Rotary to Tremec

But I had the Direct clutch one for the stock box running for a few years and then just got the plates adapted to suit the tremec patten.
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