Here's my recent dyno after fixing the high end miss that I've been experiencing with my Bosch coils. This dyno was done with 14 pounds of boost. AF reading is in the low 11's. I could probably extract more HP if I run it all the way to 7500 RPM Next time I'll try pumping up the boost to 16-17 pounds.

 

After tweaking the AR a little bit and adjusting the timing here's the result - 454 RWHP. Still running at 14 pounds of boost with crappy California 91 octane pump gas.

Now timing starts at 15 degress and eventually rises to 30 degrees up high in the RPM. Split timing starts at 15 degrees and tapers to 8 degress up high in the RPM. Manifold pressure correction is one degree per pound of boost.

I have the MTX-12 mapped all the way to 20 psi, but I guess increasing boost to 17 PSI, I would reserve that for another time. This is it for now, I guess.

Guys with 20B out there share dyno sheets.

 

its great to see a rotary making that nice of a hp/torque ratio.

 

What has been done to the motor? Turbo, injectors, and porting of the manifold, port on the motor, etc. Otherwise, the dyno doesn't really tell me what it's being equated to...

 

Here's what the motor has:

• MTX-12
• 550 stock primary and 1000cc RC injectors. - use to have 1600cc bosch but the transistion was difficult to impossible to flatten out.
• 13REW exhaust sleeve
• Street ported primary intake ports.
• 13REW port matched rear housing.
• Iannetti ceramic seals
• Solid corner seals.
• All new (13BREW) side seals, springs, oil seals, etc.
• Modified oil pan with buffle plates - it holds 10 litres of oil to aid in cooling
• Race oil pressure regulator - 105-115 psi.
• 13BREW water pump and assembly.
• 13BREW Throttle body with greddy elbow
• Turbonetics T-72 ceramic ball bearing turbo with 1.15AR, p-trim.
• HKS Racegate.
• Dedicate earl's oil cooler on the turbo side.
• Straight through exhaust with borla race muffler and turbo tuff exhaust.

Looks like those are the relivant stuff. I could pump the boost to 17 psi and posibly hit the 500+RWH mark but not on 91 octane pump gas (Since this car will be daily driven).

I guess I've seen folks saying that with stock turbo's its rated at 400-450rwhp (and lots of other stuff). I would like to see that if that is really true or just rumors. I guess the time for talk is over, let's see some results.

Hope you guys with 20B's start posting your dyno sheet to give us a good idea/understanding/comparission with the power curve of your engines.

 

ianetti's on a single turbo 20b?

And why are you using the FD TB? Is it bored out?

 

i need to go back for fine tuning, but with stock engine and turbos, it will do about 220rwhp and 220lbsft @10psi. with a ported motor and upgraded turbos it will make 450hp, thats what pettit does

mike

 

The FD TB has bigger bores compare to the 20B. Another thing is that, it eliminates the double throttle of the 20B.

 

What size intercooler core are you using?

When you are at 14 lbs of boost... what kind of fuel pump are you running and what size fuel lines? What fuel pressure are you running and is the 550/1000cc combo large enough to sustain the boost you are at? What is the (theoretical) boost level you could sustain with that injector setup?

So...why did you go with the 13B water pump? Couldn't fit the 20B or didn't want to tackle the dual thermostat issue? Have you found that cooling is an issue now with the smaller pump?

When you say the turbo has it's own oil cooler... do you mean you have it in-line before the turbo? Where is it located? I didn't see it on your web page looking at the pics. How did you plumb it in?

Also, if you're just barely getting to the 500 mark with 91 octane...how is the Bonzai edition getting 550RWHP with the stock twins on pump gas? Or are they skewing their numbers and using race gas for those results?

I was thinking that with a street port, straight pipe exhaust, T-76 1.32 A/R I should be getting close to 600 RWHP with 92 octane at close to 20psi...?

Sorry, mine's not running yet so no dyno chart for awile

 

i dont think the banzai puts 500hp to the ground, i thought it was closer to mid 400's? and the banzais are not using the stock twins, they are using modded stock twins

mike

 

I'm using the pettit stock mount intercooler. I believe its probably better to stick with the stock mount than the front mount. Just want to give the radiator more priority than the intercooler.

Quote:

When you are at 14 lbs of boost... what kind of fuel pump are you running and what size fuel lines? What fuel pressure are you running and is the 550/1000cc combo large enough to sustain the boost you are at? What is the (theoretical) boost level you could sustain with that injector setup?

I'm using an aeromotive pump. The lines I have are ss braided AN8 lines going to the engine bay. From there it splits to AN6 and goes to each injector banks. Then merge again for the return. Fuel pressure is 45 psi with vacumm/boost reference. Theoretically the injectors should be good till around low to mid 500rwh. Again it depends what duty cycle you want to run them. I down graded the secondaries from 1600 to 1000 due to transition problems when the sencond bank goes on line.

Quote:

So...why did you go with the 13B water pump? Couldn't fit the 20B or didn't want to tackle the dual thermostat issue? Have you found that cooling is an issue now with the smaller pump?

I seem to have no problem with the 13BREW pump. I run 60% H20 and 40%coolant with watter wetter. However, I have both radiator fan go on at the same time when I hit the temperature mark I set in the ECU.

Quote:

When you say the turbo has it's own oil cooler... do you mean you have it in-line before the turbo? Where is it located? I didn't see it on your web page looking at the pics. How did you plumb it in?

Yap. It's located in the second duct where the R2 oil cooler should be. The oil get's chilled before it goes to the turbo.

Quote:

Also, if you're just barely getting to the 500 mark with 91 octane...how is the Bonzai edition getting 550RWHP with the stock twins on pump gas? Or are they skewing their numbers and using race gas for those results?

I think j9fd is right. The banzai is bhp rating not rwhp rating. But again it would interesting to see an actual dyno sheet for it. My guess it's probably in the 380rwhp. But that's just my guess. So, folks with banzai let us see your dyno sheets.

Quote:

I was thinking that with a street port, straight pipe exhaust, T-76 1.32 A/R I should be getting close to 600 RWHP with 92 octane at close to 20psi...?

Sorry, mine's not running yet so no dyno chart for awile

With 20 psi, I agree you should be able to hit that 600+ mark. However, I'm not sure if 92 octane at 20psi is a good idea.

Somehow, I'm toying with the idea that my turbo is too big for my appication. That being in the 14-17 psi range on pump gas. I believe with a smaller turbo, 550+rwhp is easily doable with good turbo response. I think the current turbo I have is good for 20-26 psi range. I might down grade my turbo and my AR size.

 

maybe they are getting 550hp at the flywheel?

 

Uh, what kinda fuel rail pressure reference are we talking about?
4x550's barely crack 250hp to the wheels at 90%+ pulsewidths.&nbsp I don't see 6x550's coming anywhere near 500hp to the wheels unless we're talking about serious fuel rail pressures or a very aggressive rising rate FPR.


-Ted

 

Fuel pressure should be constant throughout the rpm range as compensated by the fuel pressure regulator vacumm/boost reference.

In other words, if you set your fuel pressure at 45 psi, as the boost rises in the manifold, the pressure regulator compensates via the vacuum/boost reference. Thus the injectors squirt pressure remains constant relative to the manifold pressure.

If you are boosting 14psi, the fuel pressure regulator pressure is increase by the reference to become 59 psi (one-to-one ratio). Thus 59-14 = 45 psi, back to your constant fuel rail pressure.

From the what you pointed out above, you are correct that 6-550cc should not yeild more than 500 RWHP at 90% duty cycle; However, 3 - 550cc and 3 - 1000cc should go pass 500 RWHP with no sweat.


Ifr = injector flow rate (lbs/hr)
nI = number of injectors
Dc = duty cycle
BSFC = is .55-.60 for turbocharge application. Let's use .60 to be conservative.
550cc/min = ~52 lbs/hr
1000cc/min = ~98 lbs/hr

HP = (Ifn * nI * Dc) / BSFC
HP = [(52 * 3 * .90) + (98 * 3 * .90)] / 0.60
HP = [140.4 + 264.6] / .60
HP = 405/0.60
HP = 675

Let's say a 15% drivetrain lost.

RWHP = 675 * .85
RWHP = 573.75

-QED

 

I used about 10 different online calculators to figure out fuel injector size. They all said pretty much the same numbers....

550cc x 6 will support 620-650 fwhp (540-565 rwhp)
Therefore, 6 x 550cc injectors should be ok for 550 rwhp as stated above.

Note: Calculations were made using a 0.60 BSFC, 43.5 psi fuel press, and 80% inj. duty cycle.

---

Multiple injectors are where it's at
If it were on a TII, I could EASILY pick up 2 more 550 cc injectors, material for new fuel rail, lines, fittings for FAR LESS than the price of 1200cc secondarys (which would do the same thing).

 

Stock base fuel rail pressure is significantly less than 43.5psi.&nbsp It should be dropped to 35psi - what do those calculators pump out now?

Any reason why you guys are picking 0.60 as a BSFC?&nbsp The rotary engine can climb as high as 0.80 BSFC, and I'm sure a rotary engine with a large turbo (boosting over 10psi) would warrant a higher BSFC #?


-Ted

 

I agree with Ted. Most injector size calculators don't even mention anything higher than .60 BSFC for any given engine because they're assuming you're trying to size injectors for a piston engine.

 

.60 BSFC should be good enough approximation for the injector sizing for turbo rotaries, especially for street car. That "ideal" number estimate should be close enought match for real world application.

One can skewed the BSFC numbers for rotaries and even say "Oh yea, rotaries can go for 1.0 BSFC or 2.0 BSFC..." Sure, that will probably work and blow black smoke but what's the point.

 

heh.

 

I agree with this. In addition, I think at least a 1.24 Q-trim exhaust housing/wheel and 3.5"+ downpipe would increase the VE of this engine, at almost any RPM range, especially up top. I would also be using at least a 76mm compressor as well. The specs even for that are slightly low as far as total airflow potential of a mild streetport 20B efficient to around 7500rpms.

Still very impressive non-the-less.