FD3SR1

I was just wondering how well an fd handles with a 20b in it?

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

You're not serious are you?

iluvmy3rdgen

I think it handles better with 20B in it then stock when you go with the custom subframe so the rack gets re-mounted.










I COULDA HAD A V-8 (no pun intended, the drink is good)

diablone

iTrader: (2)

He's been serious about all of his other silly topics.

Evil Aviator

It depends how it is built. Keep in mind that a 20B swap is a custom procedure, not some shiny bolt-on modification that comes in a kit with instructions.

Riccardo

iTrader: (1)

I think this is a good post
A 20B alters the weight distribution of the car hence handling
I would say it is for the worse as the car becomes front heavy hence prone to understeer

RETed

Run a bigger front bar...maybe heavier springs up front, and the biggest tires you can afford up front, and it should run fine...


-Ted

TT_Rex_7

Not quite...

Q: Will a 20B conversion ruin the "perfect" weight distribution of my RX-7?
A: The static weight distribution can remain 50/50 if you plan your project accordingly. A 20B conversion is a custom procedure, and how you go about it is your own choice.

https://www.rx7club.com/20b-forum-95/20b-faq-links-370451/

Also:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...t+distribution

-Alex

FD3SR1

The reason i even asked was because I have been looking into single turbo upgrades for some time now and im looking at almost 14k to do what i want to do. And then the other day I was reading one of my old rx tuner magazines and came across an artical about a guy planning on going single then ended up getting a 20b and is pushing 11psi on a stock motor and turbos and making 400whp and 375wtq. I know that the 20b would be more reliable and still make the same amount of hp. so i just started looking into the 20b swap as another option.

FD3SR1

so what can be done in order to make a 20b fd handle as good as a 13b fd? I read the links and they were helpful! thanks! but i still didnt find the answer.

Evil Aviator

LOL, I've been on this forum so long that I am pretty sure that I know where this is going...

Next, I tell you that your options include relocating the engine, relocating the battery or other components, using lighter materials, etc., and that your fabricator can discuss all of this with you.

Then, you say that you don't have a fabricator because nobody near you can perform this work, or you don't want to pay for it. Then you ask how to do these things yourself, and you want a complete how-to list as if this were something simple.

Then I tell you that a professional needs to do these things, and you get upset at me because I am being "mean" by telling you the truth that you don't want to hear.

Therefore, lets just cut to the chase, and you go ahead and call me a jerk, start the project on your own, and sell the uncompleted project for a loss a few months or years from now when you realize that you can't do this yourself.

FD3SR1

I wasnt planning on doing this myself and i have a good fabricator about 2 miles away. but thanks for the answer

rynberg

Gee, the other day you posted that you had ALREADY purchased all of those mods.

Why don't you just quit wasting bandwidth and everyone's time? BTW, Pettit charges over $30k for the complete 20B conversion. How much is your local "fabricator" going to charge? Do they have any experience installing a 20B into an FD? If not, you can probably double their "estimate".

Evil Aviator

Great! Just go talk to your fabricator, and he can explain everything. There is no point in you stressing over something that will be taken care of by a professional.

Evil Aviator

Regardless, other people read the posts in this forum, and they tend to have the same questions. It doesn't matter whether or not this project is going forward.

This forum has more bandwidth than anybody could ever use, and nobody's time is wasted unless they want to waste it.

A good fabricator wouldn't need to have performed a 20B swap, although it would help. Yes, this is going to be expensive unless the work is done by a ghetto shop. You pretty much get what you pay for. The choice is up to the car owner.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

With a 20b the Rx7 can handle just as well than when it was stock. Engine location is key. With a Pettit style subframe, relocating the rack will cause a change in the steering geometry(which isn't the best rought) which will affect the handling some. Also the engine sits farthure foward affecting the weight distribution. It does however sit the engine lower in the engine bay than the stock 13b giving it a lower center of gravity. I know this for a fact because if you exchange the 20b rear plate for the 13b plate and use stock Fd mounts to mount the engine, the engine block will sit at the same level as the 13b but because the 20b's UIM is longer, it will hit the hood not allowing it to close. Thats why Pettit designed his subframe to mount the engine lower so the LIM wouldn't have to be shortened.

Back in Sep of 2001. Car & Driver had what is called their Supertuner Challenge. It featured a 20b Fd built by Petter Farrell. The car had it's engine located 5" back to retain the stock steering geometry. That car completely destroyed the competition on the road course setion of the test. It beat the next fastest car by a full 3 seconds with only basic suspension upgrades. Now keep in mind that this is only one test. Slalom & skid pad test were not done. To my knowledge I haven't seen any 20b performance numbers in handling on any print therefore making your question really hard to answer fully.

The fact is there aren't too many threads on this forum giving "TRUE" performance handling numbers of 20b conversions. So no....your question doesn't waist uneccessary "bandwith".

FD3SR1

Thanks to the people who answered my question!
As far as saying i had all the parts I dont recall saying that i said I had a LIST of parts i was considering (here is the list)

Turbo kit for 93 rx7

Kgparts.com
-R85 turbo kit…………………………………………….………………3150.00
Stainless downpipe
Stainless manifold
Tial 40mm wastegate
Braided oil lines
O2 bung
K&N filter
Rx7store.net
-Apex-i avc-r……………………………………………………………..450.00
-Act clutch (zx3-xt100)…………………………………………………...540.00
-Block off plates……………………………………………………………65.00
-Koyo Radiator……………………………………………………..……..359.00
-Greddy R-spec 3row intercooler…………………………………...…...1350.00
Gothamracing.com
-Apex-i power fc + commander…………………………….……………1200.00
-AST tank and cap………………………………………………………...149.00
-Stage 2 fuel system……………………………………………………….599.00
Horsepowerfreaks.com
-HKS turbo timer type 1…………………………………………………..123.20
-HKS BOV + flange……………………………………………………….260.00
-Greddy pully kit…………………………………………………………..110.82
-AEM wide band (not included in price)……………………………...…..447.75
Pineappleracing.com
-5 qt oil pan w/ cooling fins……………………………………………….450.00
Rx7.com
-Jacobs Pro pak w/wires…………………………………………………..389.00
-3 bar map sensor………………………………………………………..…99.00
-Clutch master cly………………………………………………….………84.95
-Clutch slave cly…………………………………………………………....59.80
-Clutch hose…………………………………………………………….......38.00
-Act street lite flywheel + counter weight………………………………....349.00
-SX fuel psi regulator + adaptor kit……………………………………….189.95
-Racing Beat dual tip 3in exhaust…………………………………………515.00
-Bonez 3in mid pipe………………………………………………………199.75
-Gaskets for exhaust………………………………………………………..20.00
-Gauge A-pillar mount 3, 52mm…………………………………………...84.95
edoperformance.com
Defi-D series 52mm black
-Boost………………………………………………………………..……112.50
-egt + fuel psi + temp……………………………………………………..573.75
-temp………………………………………………………….…………..135.00
-Defi controller unit II…………………………………………………….118.68
Labor
-Trans. Swap………………………………………………………………900.00
-all other parts…………………………………………………………....1000.00

Total…………………………………………………………………...13,674.60

The 20b swap was just an option i never said i had one of those either! I just figured i would ask some questions about it to see if it could even be an option. it seems that in order to swap a 20b in the correct way, i would need more cash witch i dont have!
Thanks again!!!!
--Arron

FD3SR1

OH WAIT I DID SAY I HAD SOME PARTS, not all of them.

Red-Rx7

And the parts list above was for what you planned with your 2 rotor right? Not the 3 rotor?

FD3SR1

Correct

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Regarding weight distribution, I found this thread to be most helpful: https://www.rx7club.com/20b-forum-95/just-scaled-20b-fd-265222/

FD3SR1, I'll tell you (in a bit nicer tone lol) that 20B projects are incredibly involved and unimaginably expensive and high maintenance. It's not really a "swap" at all as far as I'm concerned. A swap is more along the lines of remove this, and just replace w/ that. W/ the 20B project, there's a LOT of fabrication work that has to go into it to make the project work. Most ppl run up a list of about $10K - $15K in parts alone, provided they do their own labor. $30K - $35K + is easily what everything will cost when it's all said and done.

I was just commenting on David Hayes' thread about how Pettit's done practically a dozen of these "swaps" and are still running into problems and troubleshooting issues. And they're one of the best. Ppl are just a lil hostile because they've seen 50 others like you come into the game for pretty much the same reason, thinking "hey, for about $7K more, I can go 3-rotor!" and 6 months and $20K later they realize they're in over their heads, and have to sell their project at a huge financial loss to them. And in the midst is a completely innocent FD that's been gutted.

So in short, I don't blame these guys for not encouraging ppl to go 20B, cuz it's not exactly like installing a single turbo kit, because there are no 20B "kits" at all. It's a PROJECT - and a very long one at that.

94RHDFD

iTrader: (3)

Well said, mine is 1 1/2 years in the making and well over 15k in parts and labor and I still have to buy my ECU (actually on its way) and install it, finish upgrading my fuel system, relocate my battery, have the turbo finish'd and then have the car tuned, along with a few other misc. parts. But it will be done, this year

Evil Aviator

If you did the work yourself, you could perform a very basic 20B-REW swap for about the same price. The problem is that if you are really concerned about handling, you are looking at about $50K for a GTO level 20B FD.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Hmmm... what would that entail??

Evil Aviator

Basically, you would build a GTO / GT1 car with a 20B engine. I guess it would technically be in SPO (SCCA) if it were turbocharged, but you probably are not interested in racing so it's a moot point. I think you could have an entry-level car built for about $50K. I have seen some used cars for sale in about that price range, so it may be easier and more cost-effective for you to just pick one up.