I'm knee deep in this swap right now, but I'm using the Pettit subframe and spindels. However, for the water pump I picked up an FC unit and made my own water neck since its VERY easily to fabricate one since the flange is pretty basic. I've got plenty of room for clearance, and most importantly, I can run the belt in the opposite direction and not have to worry about it slipping. I picked up the housing and pump on ebay for something like $20

 

OK So I guess that there is some "secret" for this whole swap from MVA or Acosta whatever there name is.....We will all just have to keep guessing?? I mean what are these forums for anyway?? (Sharing information??) I guess I'd volunteer to make a website to list all the methods to do the swap so everyone knows the FACTS about this swap! I mean enough is enough! Lets all get the information out there so people can do this swap right!! Acosta and all the others that are keeping the information for themselves to keep charging $30k or more to do the swap and keep all the do it yourselfers in the dark longing for this swap needs to come to an end!! So give me the information and I'll make a website!! what do you guys think?

 

Honestly, there is no secret in doing the swap. It's time consuming period! I really don't see how the figure of 10-15K came about since I calculated that parts alone is close to 20K.

Let's recap the cost of parts

20B engine ($3500 average)
20B rebuild ($4000 the cheapest if you want more hp)
subframe ($1500-2500)
I/C (minimum of 3 row FMIC $1300)
fabricate new oil lines ($300)
fuel system ($1200-1500)
Ignition system ($600-800)
EMS ($2000)
clutch system ($1500)
upgraded radiator ($500)
Turbo manifold and DP ($1200-1400)
Turbo ($1500-2500)
Intake ($200)
bumpsteer correction kit ($150)


This is just parts alone. It doesn't include the cost for shop's labor. If you put in 100 hrs at $75/hr, that's $7500. 100hrs is probably being pretty conservative considered there're alot of parts that need fabrications.

If you think $30k is expensive, you shouldn't be doing a 20B swap anyway. On the other hand, if all you want is just a 20B in the car running stock turbos, a single turbo 13B will out run it anytime of the day so why bother spending the money to begin with?

 

Pluto, while I have no doubt your setup will be fantanstic once its done, you numbers are a lot higher then they have to be depending on one's fability to fabricate parts and look around for good deals. I've spent about 13k on mine so far (not counting misc tools, suspension parts, etc) and in my mind, I haven't even really cut any corners. However, I'm doing all my own piping, making the endtanks for my intercooler, bought a pre-owned but never used subframe, rebuilding my own engine, etc. I mean, really, you don't have to pay $200 for an intake, that's WAY too much for piping and filters, and by no means do you have to go with a single turbo setup. But then, like I said, its just a matter of how you want to do it and what your goals are.

This is way off topic, but after spending two days straight working on this swap I have to say if I was doing this all over again I'd cut the firewall, move the engine back, get a custom driveshaft and make my own subframe. It may sound complicated but its really not that big of a deal in terms of, espically considering a lot of stuff that's done with Classics, and after replacing the front clip I'm pretty comfortable cutting up the chassis. The subframe itself is actually fairly straight foward, and its not hard at all to making something that of comperable or better quaility to the Pettit units (based on the one I have). There are many places that make custom driveshafts, and it wouldn't be terrible expensive either (about $500 - $750 dollars max). I'm actually considering going that route despite the fact that I already have the Pettit parts, but I probably wont since I don't have the time

 

If you cut the firewall, it isn't the driveshaft problem. It is the fact that your shifter is now near inbetween your seats. Custom interior is needed, or a different transmission all together.

 

I also thought about moving the engine back and cut up the firewall. The problem is that the shifter location will be too far back where it wouldn't feel natural to shift. So I went against that. Believe me, I looked at every angle of the setup before I decided to do the 20B swap. My #'s were actually conservative since not everyone can rebuild and port their own engine and not everyone has the ability to fabricate their own parts. Even if they could, it is still a very time consuming job. 100hrs is very reasonable in my opinion.

 

I was looking at that today and it seems like you can fairly easily move it about about 4 inches having to mess with the interior too much if you modify the shifter, but you're right, that is an issue I haven't really looked into very throughly simply because I'm probably not going to go that route.

 

So far I've put about 20 hours into mine, not counting driving to other states to pick up parts. I figure it'll probably be about another 80 - 150 before I'm done and the car is driveable, and that's fairly conservative and includes non-20B work on the car as well. Fortunatly for me I have a lot of freetime with my work schedule this summer

 

Also about the spindles with the pettit kit, I really don't know how much it would correct the bump steer issue since if you look at it closely, the spindle doesn't drop directly down but rather at an angle so having the spindle doesn't necessary fix the bump steer. That's why i went my route and did my own subframe and use the hinson bump steer kit to correct the bump steer. I think that's the best way to do it in my opinion. The most important thing when correcting bump steer is that whatever the amount you drop of the steering rack, you have to do the exact same on the end links (angle, height, position) or else bump steer will still be there.

Just my .02

 

But if you dry sump the engine, you'll be able to move it down 3" or more, wouldn't you? Eh, maybe not now that I think about it... but there's always that Hogan intake manifold for a 3 rotor!

 

Nah, you'll still hit the steering rack, the most you could drop is about an 1" so with Mike's setup, you can kinda figure out how much they cut on the LIM to make it fit.

 

Concerning moving the engine down & back without having to cut up the firewall and deal with shifter location, have any of you seen the autotech fd cars?
http://www.autotechmotorsports.com/projects.htm
These guys came up with the best of all worlds and having seen the cars personally, along with several other 'types' od 20b fd cars, all I can say is their cars are very impressive and they probably have the best (though certainly not most powerful) conversion method out there...period.

It is very easy to move the stock shifter forward 4"

 

A few people inquired about my engine mounts and just to pass on a bit of info, apparently the guy who made them is sick/injured so they're currently unavailable. If they don't become available any time soon (I'll find out for sure tomorrow) maybe I'll have mine duplicated in billet or high carbon steel.

 

I was thinking of going this route myself. Does anyone know whats needed to move the shifter forward? Could any transmission shop do this. Hmmm I wonder how much they would charge just to relocate the shifter in the tranny itself???? Everything else I could do myself.

 

Steve is there a way to confirm your theory about the torque curve moving with the shortened LIM? The above link has a dyno chart for that 20b conversion and the power really doesn't kick in till about 4k. I'm not sure if they shorten the LIM to help make it fit so far under the fire wall. Also RedRx7 with his cut LIM 20b has similar power characteristics, but has much larger porting. His power curve looks like the Titan rollercoaster's first drop over at sixflags(Arlington). Overall do you think that porting would make the biggest differance in moving the power curves as compared to cutting the LIM?