Broke E-Shaft Today.

Old 11-02-08, 01:18 AM
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Angry Broke E-Shaft Today.

After feeling good with the tune the past month. I was all set for the dyno on Monday. But it was short lived. Earlier today while messing arround on the highway with my buddy Jess (1100 RWHP 97 Camaro). The e-shaft decided to let go. From looking at the datalog it happend at 6150 rpm at 25.5 psi in 3rd gear. We have done numerous runs with no issues. This motor has held up for 2 years of abouse after studding it. Last yeat running 24-25psi on race fuel and the this year on E85.

I just finished pulling apart the motor. All housing look good, I still need to check them for warp. I will to replace a rotor and a stationary gear from the preliminary inspection. I was happy to see virtually no wear on the housings. The Klotz Benol is doing it job premixed with e85.

Now to figure out what caused the failure. E-shaft flex, spun center bearing, or detination? I also will need to decide to go with an aftermarket or stock shaft again.

Here a pics
Attached Thumbnails Broke E-Shaft Today.-img_1511.jpg   Broke E-Shaft Today.-img_1510-1.jpg  
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Old 11-02-08, 01:42 AM
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Do you see much evidence for a spun bearing? Check for all the signs.

Man, my condolences. Are you going to try a Jeff Bruce shaft next?
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Old 11-02-08, 09:29 AM
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wow.
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Old 11-02-08, 09:45 AM
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Was the rotating assembly balanced?
Lightweight rotors?


It matters...
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Old 11-02-08, 10:23 AM
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was it a stock 3rd gen e-shaft?
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Old 11-02-08, 06:03 PM
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um ... 20B section ...
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Old 11-02-08, 08:41 PM
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sorry, I wasn't paying attention when I clicked on the thread earlier on as it was on the main page...
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Old 11-03-08, 08:40 AM
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The front portion of the eshaft was siezed to the center bearing. I had to use a press to remove it. The front stationary gear did have a few damaged teeth. I'm not sure if it ws part of the cause or a result of the failure. I was able to check the housings last night there is no damage or warp, thank god.

The assemby was not balanced. The new one will be!!
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Old 11-03-08, 09:23 AM
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would you mind taking a good detailed picture of the surfaces of the break (macro if you've got it)? I'd like to see how the fracture propogated across the surface
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Old 11-03-08, 10:09 AM
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Pics of break
the smooth spots center of the left piece was caused from the press.




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Old 11-03-08, 01:28 PM
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Wow. Condolences! It's possibilities like this that made me switch back to a 2rotor for racing purposes
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Old 11-03-08, 02:38 PM
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damn man , just as i was following youre whole gto tranny upgrade , damn
any ideas of what whp you where pushing ?
some people argue that the limit for the shat is around 700 hp , i beg to differ though
or maybe just lots of street abuse?
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Old 11-03-08, 03:52 PM
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I was going to find out on the dyno today. I was shooting for 800+rwhp with this turbo which is maxed out. I can't quite keep up with Jess, He pulls away from me gradually. He keeps tellimg me to go to a 88 or 91mm, he's running a 94mm on a 383.

I am happy with the performance now, just neet to get it reliable. Drivability is great except for the clutch. I'm looking at carbon setups that can be slipped for smoother starts on the street. Tranny is holding up fine. Jess is still running a t-56 at 1100rwhp with a viper output shaft. We both powershift at 8000+, you can tell the GTO box is smoother shifting vs. the camaro box.
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Old 11-03-08, 03:58 PM
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One Idea that was brought up is that the last tank of gas was winter blend E85 which is only 70+% ethonal vs 83+%. I only added 8 gallons that morning to top off the tank. The tank was down to about a 30% when it happend. So with the fuel sloshing back under hard acceleration there is a slight chance dropping fuel pressure. But the afr's in the log look fine. 10.9-11.2 under full boost.
Who knows, it was something to chew on.
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Old 11-03-08, 04:58 PM
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Any potential that the place that made your adapter plate misaligned the input shaft? It seems like a stretch, but I could imagine the resulting stress on the flywheel, as subtle as it would have to be to go unnoticed, fatiguing the shaft over enough time.
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Old 11-03-08, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by calculon View Post
Any potential that the place that made your adapter plate misaligned the input shaft? It seems like a stretch, but I could imagine the resulting stress on the flywheel, as subtle as it would have to be to go unnoticed, fatiguing the shaft over enough time.
If it was misaligned, I think it would affect the input shaft bearing or pilot bearing more than the E-shaft. Both are in good condition.
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Old 11-03-08, 10:12 PM
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Definitely. . . the bearings would be destroyed completely.

Were you data logging? If the ethanol content dropped, the mixture should've richened, but not that significantly. . . hmmmm.

Hope you get to the bottom of it. Any thoughts as to which route you're going to go? OEM replacement? GURU? MPS?
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Old 11-03-08, 10:28 PM
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What letter code eshaft was this?
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Old 11-04-08, 02:19 PM
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i dont think it could be the adapter plate , it would have fucked up some time ago , you got some time already hogging it right ?
maybe just stress ??
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Old 11-04-08, 06:32 PM
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The Shaft is from a B Series. The only marking on it is 746, that I can remember. I just flew back to CA this morning for 2 weeks.

I have emails back from Xtreme Rotary and Japan2LA win pricing.

Does someone have a contact to purchace the Jeff Bruce shaft?
And a recomended shops to lighten the rotors then balance the assembly?

I have all winter to get it fixed. That is the only plus about breaking at this time of the year.
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Old 11-04-08, 09:39 PM
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Shouldn't that e-shaft have a letter as well? Hmm maybe someone switched it? Either way, since you have a lofty goal, I would just pony up for the aftermarket e-shaft. Glad your having great results with the GTO tranny. That is something I will most definetly do in the future.

Last edited by t-von; 11-04-08 at 09:41 PM.
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Old 11-05-08, 05:34 PM
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The motor had all matching #'s on the housings when i bought it. I am sure the motor was never opened before. I still have all the original housings but they need to lapped. When I studded the motor I was came accross a good deal on all 4 new in box side housings for $1250.
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Old 11-06-08, 04:39 AM
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^--nice!!
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Old 11-07-08, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by IronMdnX View Post
The Shaft is from a B Series. The only marking on it is 746, that I can remember. I just flew back to CA this morning for 2 weeks.
That's part of your problem. C & D series had upgraded shafts and backing plates for a reason; earlier shafts were prone to flexing and eventually snapping.

Does someone have a contact to purchace the Jeff Bruce shaft?
You mean the 3-piece shaft? Yea, I can get it for you.

And a recomended shops to lighten the rotors then balance the assembly?
Yep; I work w/ the same guy who balances the rotating assembly for RacingBeat. You'd have to send the entire assembly, and if you wanna go all out, include the clutch, flywheel, & counterweight too.

~Ramy
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Old 11-08-08, 12:55 AM
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I can sort the shaft from here if you like...

And I have never seen a letter on a shaft yet... just numbers & they dont relate to the number on the block either...
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