j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

why won't a p port work with a turbo? the austrailians do it and make lots of power.

mike

fdracer

i agree w/ jim, you aint removing over 500 lbs. w/ these mods. first of all the body and all panels of the fd are already light, so switching to all fiberglass and cf pieces aren't gonna yeild you the weight savings as other cars. secondly you can't even change out many of the metal body parts cause its part of the unibody. you can do the hood hatch and doors, that's about it. you'll definitely need to scrap all the luxuries, i.e. power steering, a/c, radio. then you need all lexan windows. maybe sheetmetal floors and roof, if you've got a full rollcage. you also have to factor in the added weight of not only the engine, but a roll cage, larger i.c. etc. good luck though

twint78

first im aiming this at jim.

jim if i went with a shortened engine.thats using all aluminum parts, and cutting the intermediate housings down by half it in itself will remove more weight.but for good oil flowing purposes i will not be doing this now.

im not getting 1000 hp out of a n/a.

dont turn my thread into a hater thread like so many have with urs. go **** in another thread about this one.i was just wanting some friendly competition.obviously someone got their panties in a bunch.

and what is wrong wiith coming with an idea on the *******.its a great place to think.i also wake up in the night and write stuff down and then go back to sleep.i also think about it all day.

as u see this is called an idea swap thread.it is throwing ideas around to let ppl know what i am planning on doing.and if i trip may someone correct and break my fall.

and to fd racer:

to remove metal body panels i mean as in front side fenders, no biggy, i should have been more clear.

i spoke with a rotary shop here in nc today, and there is a guy that has gotten his fd down to 2200-2300 lbs. i found out this guy is starting to chase the same idea as i am.but hes a millionaire,owns ferrari's and race cars,he'll have his done b4 me.

hey j9fd3s:

lets put it like this aussies are damn crazy, gotta love'em.yes a few have done this.but they r so pure race engines that they gotta watch and rebuild it so many races. i will want mine to last around at least 15-20k miles.and this is extensive extensive tuning.

hey michel as far as the split timing goes.hmmm....it wont matter too much to me.i still wanna see dynos with big numbers showing that the trailing plug actually matters.it is more for emissions in my opinion. if im proved wrong with some graphs, ill just grab 3 extra single coils and run them.

and once more to jim:

to put this power to the ground.i guess ur gonna want me to answer this so i can say sumtin u dont like.then u can try to make me look stupid and be the hero of the day.

im aiming for a 1000 flywheel hp.its a figure who knows i might only come out with 850.depends how good the tuner is at fine tuning.and since the tec3 about gets u there, it shouldnt be too hard.but anyways, im sure i will not be able to get all of this to the ground. but these are some of the things i plan on using

chromoly rear end
cusco 2 way lsd
launch kit
335 drag radial's
something like a cross between a ppf and torque arm.
softer rear suspension
but u gotta remember jim my power comes in a few 1000 rpms later.its not n/a where i am breaking traction and have rear end all over the place.thats what i like about turbos.im sure there is more that i can do here.
but when i get to that part im sure ill ask some pro stockers.they do it all the time.
but it will be a trailor queen and garaged.but i when i pull out of the trailor i will be on the road right?!
and no one says i hafta use all 1000 hp.unlike ur engine jim i can control my hp.i can drop it down to 0 boost if i wanted too.as where if u get caught up in the rain,have fun.

fdracer

twin t78, take off your fenders first, you'll see that they're already light as hell. you ain't gonna save too much weight w/ fiberglass, bro. is this gonna be a pure drag car? do you want it to weigh 2200 lbs. w/ or w/o driver?

twint78

probably shootin for without the driver.i want the car to be as light as hell.but like i said im shootin for this.

jimlab

Not even remotely. As I've said all along, good luck on your project. I don't think parts of it are very realistic, and I think that in many ways you're being overly optimistic, but no one's holding you back from doing it, if you're serious. But with 90-some posts to your name, you'll have to excuse those of us who express our doubts... the 20B/26B pipe dream is a fairly common newbie scenario that shows up with monotonous frequency.

That's cool. That would also go a long way towards explaining the 2,200 lb. curb weight dream you had...

Fine, then you can look upon the constructive criticism you're receiving as "breaking your fall".

Now that I'd like to see. 500-600 lbs. of weight savings is, shall we say, just a little hard to believe. I think someone's pulling your leg, and/or trying to make themselves feel better about all the money they've spent. Even with a carbon fiber hood, hatch, and door skins, and a Lexan rear window, I doubt the savings would amount to more than 40 lbs. or so over the stock parts. I know for a fact that all of those pieces are already ridiculously light, since I've just had all of them off my car (again) recently.

Nope, just pointing out that it's a lot more difficult to put the power to use than it is to make the power in the first place. Talk to Rice Racing if you don't believe me.

Make the 1,000 horsepower first, then let's talk about how much of it you can actually use. I think you've got the cart before the horse in more ways than one.

twint78

umm jim post dont mean ****.i use to have another name with quite a few post on it.i got kicked off for defending a rival store.communism sucks.so im not a damn newbie with a post thinkin about a pipe dream.
but like i said im not responding to ur posts anymore.its a waste of my thead.

rx7tt95

And back to our regularly scheduled program....

Pertaining to the distance between the transmission bellhousing and transmission tunnel, there's more space there than one would think. The problem comes with the starter's interference.

Jim, can't remember the name of the thread, but I also posted a few pics of the RE-Amemiya JGTC300GT entry. They use a Hewland sequential box and a custom intake manifold. As far as I can tell from the images, the firewall is not cut. Both the Hewland and the G-Force, amazingly, are smaller in diameter to the stock transmission as well as being shorter. The bellhousing has about the same amount of room to be slid back, maybe 5-6" before running into problems when the engine rotates.

I see the major mechanical issues as being fairly simple such as the intake, turbo manifold, oil pan, etc...it's the small things that worry me and one reason why I'll HAVE to enlist the help of Pettit to complete the project. With an aluminum machine shop, he's able to do an incredibly clean installation the likes of which PFS has never seen :-)

Anyway, like Jim's project, completion is expected sometime in 2015. J/K Jim. I'm sure there will be issues, but that's half the fun, right? I'm sure Jim will be willing to help or offer advice when we do run into snafu's as will other list members. Who wouldn't want to see such a creation come to fruitrition?
Michel
Michel

jimlab

That's interesting. From our work in fabricating the V8 swap components, the transmission tunnel was a major limiting factor in how far to the rear of the car the engine could be located, but of course we weren't measuring with a rotary engine. The bellhousing on the T56 is larger, but not that much larger.




However, I have seen Lenco (G-Force resells Lencos, as far as I'm concerned) transmissions that use smaller diameter (Tilton, etc.) multiple-plate clutch systems which would make clearance of the bellhousing a non-issue, but it's hard to believe that the engine can move that far back in the chassis and not contact the transmission tunnel. Oh well... I've certainly been wrong before and chances are that I'll be wrong again once or twice.

It's the little stuff that adds up, as ever. The ability to fabricate just the right bracket or intake piping in-house makes things soooo much easier. My delays have been mainly from things like fabricating the sheet metal intake, casting the custom cylinder head blanks, machining the custom crankshaft, rods, and pistons, waiting on an MSD cam synch stub, and the sort of things which aren't in-house operations.

My car might run under its own power next year... if I can get everyone to cough up all the parts I'm waiting on.

rx7tt95

I dunno Jim, I think Nick has you beat...saw the car last weekend. It's still completely gutted after having the cage welded in. I'll see if Nick will let me post a pic or two. You wouldn't believe how wide his rims are, LOL. Anyway, his install isn't going to be nearly as complex as yours. I believe he's trying to get it ready in time for the Moroso 24hr SCCA event. Which means it needs to be done by late Fall for testing purposes.
Michel

jimlab

I'm sure Nick will finish first, and I've seen the pictures of his car... and those rims.

crazydriving.net

i have a video of a fd3 with a p port and a t51 kai turbo....! 1.5bar and 680bhp..:!

What port was scoot running? didnt he made like 710bhp witk a t51kai and 3kg of boost?

peejay

Scoot had a semi-peripheral port. Four side ports and two small peripheral ports that got their air from the secondary runners.

twint78

ive thought and thought of which turbo or turbos i should go with.i was planning on a hks t51r.thats a no.what about twin t04e's.still unsure.ive talked with innovative about the gtb88,unsure.now im thinking, what about 3 smaller turbos.maybe like 3 td05's with internal w/g's.it would help with plumbing for one.i could use 3 seperate boost controllers.setting each boost level at a 5 pound interval.one would be set at 10 psi,then 15 psi then 20psi.this way i could get power all through out the rpm range.while one stops spooling at 10 lbs the other one would keep going to 15 when it stops the other one would keep going to 20psi.kinda of a home made way of making a mechanical sequential setup.plus td05's are dime a dozen.i could use a 16g"large",an 18g, and finally a 20g killer.

fdracer

this dream is just getting too ridiculous. i hope your a millionaire, cause it's gonna cost a lot. i'm not even gonna try to reign you back to earth anymore like jimlab. your target weight is never gonna happen, your 1000hp is possible, but get ready for rebuild after rebuild. good look getting traction on 1000hp. good luck finding someone to fabricate your 3 different sized turbo idea. why don't you try building a really powerful 13b first (500+rwhp) and learn about all the problems you're gonna have, before you do this. i hate to break it to you but a rotary is a very fragile motor compared to a piston engine. 1000hp even on a 3 rotor isn't gonna last very long w/o constant rebuilds. and if you do manage to get traction you're gonna start snapping driveline parts like toothpicks. once again i hope your rich.

twint78

hey fdracer y dont u ask b4 u judge?

i own a 450hp t78 rx7 done by myself.

i know how fragile the motors are im constantly getting upset with it but love them.

i dont plan on using this car everyday.just racing

they already make a 16g 18g and 20g td05 turbo with internal w/g. research i have already done.

one guy used a c.fiber driveshaft with a 3rotor with 400rwhp and 400rwtq.

with hp boost is adjustable.

ive talked with friends at a rotary shop they think its a great feasible idea.

big drag racers get traction with 6000 hp why not 1000hp.

i shoot for 2000lb car.never said it was possible.but u always aim high.i might just get down to 2300 or 2400.

why is this all in all impossible cuz u havent done it b4?or no one else has?well there is a 1st time for everything.im well aware of the costs.thats why i mentioned it will take me a few yrs.

alot of ppl doubted jimlab at first.ppl are still asking about 50:50 weight distribution.just think when u sit in ur car it is not perfectly ratioed anymore is it?

i never doubted jim.i think it is a great idea.aussie's are quite like this.they think of the most outragous ideas.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Hey man, I believe in yah.

fdracer

hey i never said it was impossible, what i did say is that its gonna cost a lot of money, and by a lot i mean A LOT. the hardest part is gonna be the 3 different sized sequential turbos. the manifold design is gonna be close to impossible. different sized sequentials get thrown around on every forum and every shop that deals with turbos. i've seen guys that are multimillionaires that want this done, yet the fact remains its never been done. also, it's not that i don't think you should shoot to get to 2000lbs., its just the number you came up with along with the weight reduction mods you posted just didn't coincide. i'm glad to see you're getting more realistic. all i'm saying isyou can't expect to lighten a car significantly when it uses ultra light weight parts to begin with.

twint78

true thanx for the info every little bit helps.sorry i got a little bit jumpy ,just got done talking to jim.i wont necessarily have a sequential setup but this is what im saying.

turbo 1: 5psi
turbo 2: 5psi ... 10 psi...15 psi
turbo 3: 5psi... 10 psi... 15psi...20psi...25psi

one will stop pushing anymore boost than desired once it reaches its limits.while the next keeps spoolin to its desired boost level.that way i have some what of a sequential effect going on.do u see what im getting at?
plus 3 turbos with internal w/g's will help clear up alot of plumbing.

its kinda like that way one doesnt run out of air,but yet makes up for the other turbos lag until it is fully spooled, and so on.

black99

Can I have some of what you're smoking?

twint78

what u mean black99?

fdracer

yeah that must be some good ****
twin, i still don't understand your idea. how are you going to route all the exhaust from 3 rotors to the first turbo, then route them all to the 2nd turbo, then to the third. you gotta think about all the block-off valves you'll need. then you gotta think about pre-spooling the upcoming turbo and having a smooth transition. etc, etc. why don't you just go w/ a parallel setup w/ 3 relatively small dual ball-bearing turbos and call it a day. they'll spool up just as quick as your idea, but be a 1000 times simpler. plus when you're off boost it won't be as bad as a 2 rotor, cause the 3 rotor produces much more torque.

black99

I mean most of your idea is way "out there" IMO. And everyone's allowed to have their opinions. To each their own. Sorry but again most of it doesn't sound feasable.

If you really want to do a 3 turbo 20B(Or any frankenstein 20B for that matter)... It' will cost you alot of money as said, and I'd wait to drop a 20B in the car first to see what room you're dealing with.

Also don't go around telling people you're going to smush them with your 1000hp tri turbo rx7 when it's not even gone through all the process to be clearly thought out much less started on the prodject.

If you want to start this prodject the more power to ya. Hope you have the cash. But don't get an ego about a car that isn't built yet.

rotorbrain

why dont you look into propane injection in order to stabilize the higher boost levels. i cant find the sites ive read up on this at, but theres a guy with a vr4 running 20psi on 91 octane. he built the kit himself. look into it.

paul

Evil Aviator

I don't understand. If the first turbo's WG is set at 5 psi, then what is going to stop a pressure reversion once turbo 2 overtakes 5psi on its way to 10psi? This problem is only going to get worse as turbo 3 reaches high boost. Also, running 3 turbines is going to soak up a lot of exhaust gas, so there is going to be some serious spool-up time in your boost threashold, and I doubt that you would be able to have enough pressure remaining to run turbo 3 up that high. Finally, turbo 3 is going to need to be huge in order to support the airflow requirements at 25psi.