20Beast in a GSL-SE
10-08-11, 12:20 PM
#54
Yeah there is more room in a 1st gen bay than there is in a 3rd gen. 
Lowering the engine as I did changed the pinion angle. You can see it in the shifter hole. I could probably lower the trans more slightly to make up for it. Or maybe 1 degree of pinion angle doesn't matter to the driveshaft?
Lowering the engine as I did changed the pinion angle. You can see it in the shifter hole. I could probably lower the trans more slightly to make up for it. Or maybe 1 degree of pinion angle doesn't matter to the driveshaft?
03-15-12, 10:24 PM
#63
Bit of an update...
Starting to look into exhaust systems. So far I've narrowed it to two choices.
Choice 1:
something resembling RB's streetport exhaust system for 1st gens. Long primary with three presilencers collecting into a single 2.5" or 3" pipe over the rearend. Then into a 2.5" or 3" RB universal muffler. Or failing that, just RB's powerpulse muffler with the restrictive tips chopped and replace with open pipes.
Choice 2:
short primary header collecting to 2.5" then expanding to 3". Then as many 3" mufflers as I can fit under the car. I'm thinking 18" Magnaflow 5x8 oval with center/offset core, then a 4" round 3" core Magnapack, then up over the rearend in 3" or possibly contracting down to 2.5" and into an RB universal 3" or 2.5" depending on flow calcs and noise considerations.
Choice 3:
Turbo? Nah, NA.
Starting to look into exhaust systems. So far I've narrowed it to two choices.
Choice 1:
something resembling RB's streetport exhaust system for 1st gens. Long primary with three presilencers collecting into a single 2.5" or 3" pipe over the rearend. Then into a 2.5" or 3" RB universal muffler. Or failing that, just RB's powerpulse muffler with the restrictive tips chopped and replace with open pipes.
Choice 2:
short primary header collecting to 2.5" then expanding to 3". Then as many 3" mufflers as I can fit under the car. I'm thinking 18" Magnaflow 5x8 oval with center/offset core, then a 4" round 3" core Magnapack, then up over the rearend in 3" or possibly contracting down to 2.5" and into an RB universal 3" or 2.5" depending on flow calcs and noise considerations.
Choice 3:
Turbo? Nah, NA.
03-18-12, 07:56 PM
#64
Lol how much do you got to spend. I'm hoping money isn't an option cause you said NA as your third and you'd have to shell out a good bit more than an exhaust to get it up to your expectation of a turbo.
What I'm saying is, NA. do it, PP style with a street'ish exhaust.
What I'm saying is, NA. do it, PP style with a street'ish exhaust.
03-18-12, 08:43 PM
#65
Wow Jeff...never realized you had this going on. (I never come in the 20b section cause I'm always broke...lol) Seriously nice work! Your oil pan welds look very much like my finished fb dual exhaust...I'm gonna blame it on the flux core welder too...lol. Is this the car that the 4 rotor is going into now??? or a different fb??? I cant keep pace with your projects man! I like the do do brown btw...
Last edited by cfamilyfix; 03-18-12 at 08:45 PM. Reason: idk
03-18-12, 09:44 PM
#66
Well if I did go turbo, that would solve all my exhaust headaches. Just 3" and be done with it. EASY. And I'm very tempted right now to just throw the T72 on it and call it good, but don't have enough tuning experience to feel comfortable with it, you know?
I wonder if I could just do a low-key setup. Just run at wastegate spring pressure of 5psi or whatever, like the stock twins originally did, and know it's not going to require a whole lot of fuel or tuning practice to have plenty of fun. This was going to be set up as an NA, so it's not like I spent a lot on clutches and tires or whatever. So 250 to 300HP is fine with me -- I just doubt I'll get that much NA (what with the restrictive intake manifold and potentially restrictive exhaust necessary to keep it quiet on the street).
What do you think, guys?
I wonder if I could just do a low-key setup. Just run at wastegate spring pressure of 5psi or whatever, like the stock twins originally did, and know it's not going to require a whole lot of fuel or tuning practice to have plenty of fun. This was going to be set up as an NA, so it's not like I spent a lot on clutches and tires or whatever. So 250 to 300HP is fine with me -- I just doubt I'll get that much NA (what with the restrictive intake manifold and potentially restrictive exhaust necessary to keep it quiet on the street).
What do you think, guys?
03-18-12, 10:15 PM
#67
Jimmy2222, I'll see if I can answer some specific questions. I already spent plenty for the car to be turbo'd. I'm just not sure of myself, as this is the first turbo for me.
The car already has a walbro 255. Already has a full 3" exhaust with the beginnings of a manifold for the T72 (just need to position the turbo in the engine bay and get the u-bends into a collector for the T4 flange). Already has an eBay T72 and a 46mm wastegate. Also a knockoff HKS BOV.
I'm kinda thinking for low boost I can keep the walbro 255 so I won't need something bigger or need two of them. Also the stock injectors will be big enough.
The clutch is an ACT. The pressure plate is from Racing Beat. The flywheel is just an RB light steel. The trans is an S5 NA, hence wanting to go NA. All these parts are already here and installed. However I think if I kept boost low like a factory setup, but without the weight and complexity of stock twins, I'll do ok on this tranny. Aaron Cake says they die at 400HP so I'll stick with 300 or less. Should be fine in a 1st gen.
Some issues I'm having. The wastegate is a Precision Turbo brand unit in 46mm. This seems kinda small to me. I probably need a 60mm. Maybe a cheap 60 from eBay would do?
There's no intercooler and I'm thinking at 5psi I don't need one. But I'll need one in the future if I want to raise the boost. And we all want that so not sure where to stick the intercooler just yet.
I kinda promised the turbo and related parts to someone but it's not set in stone yet. It's honestly pretty buig for his 13B so he'd prefer an HX40 but lacks the money for one. We also have the stock twins from an REW that he wanted to try if the T72 wasn't available.
In conclusion I just don't know what I should do. Part of me wants to try the turbo but I think my inexperience is holding me back. I'd hate to pop the engine because of a simple oversight on my part. But on the flipside, coming up with a workable NA exhaust seems to elude me whenever I think about it. And I have other projects here that could benefit from the parts I don't use on the 20B; parts like a full RB streetport exhaust system plus the 3rd presilencer and pipe section, and the powerpulse muffler etc. For example I've got an 81 FB that could really use the RB exhaust...
The goal of all of this is to be a quiet comfortable daily driver that's a total sleeper. But then when you want to scare the crap out of you and your passenger, just flex your ankle and keep plastic wrap on your seats.
The car already has a walbro 255. Already has a full 3" exhaust with the beginnings of a manifold for the T72 (just need to position the turbo in the engine bay and get the u-bends into a collector for the T4 flange). Already has an eBay T72 and a 46mm wastegate. Also a knockoff HKS BOV.
I'm kinda thinking for low boost I can keep the walbro 255 so I won't need something bigger or need two of them. Also the stock injectors will be big enough.
The clutch is an ACT. The pressure plate is from Racing Beat. The flywheel is just an RB light steel. The trans is an S5 NA, hence wanting to go NA. All these parts are already here and installed. However I think if I kept boost low like a factory setup, but without the weight and complexity of stock twins, I'll do ok on this tranny. Aaron Cake says they die at 400HP so I'll stick with 300 or less. Should be fine in a 1st gen.
Some issues I'm having. The wastegate is a Precision Turbo brand unit in 46mm. This seems kinda small to me. I probably need a 60mm. Maybe a cheap 60 from eBay would do?
There's no intercooler and I'm thinking at 5psi I don't need one. But I'll need one in the future if I want to raise the boost. And we all want that so not sure where to stick the intercooler just yet.
I kinda promised the turbo and related parts to someone but it's not set in stone yet. It's honestly pretty buig for his 13B so he'd prefer an HX40 but lacks the money for one. We also have the stock twins from an REW that he wanted to try if the T72 wasn't available.
In conclusion I just don't know what I should do. Part of me wants to try the turbo but I think my inexperience is holding me back. I'd hate to pop the engine because of a simple oversight on my part. But on the flipside, coming up with a workable NA exhaust seems to elude me whenever I think about it. And I have other projects here that could benefit from the parts I don't use on the 20B; parts like a full RB streetport exhaust system plus the 3rd presilencer and pipe section, and the powerpulse muffler etc. For example I've got an 81 FB that could really use the RB exhaust...
The goal of all of this is to be a quiet comfortable daily driver that's a total sleeper. But then when you want to scare the crap out of you and your passenger, just flex your ankle and keep plastic wrap on your seats.
03-19-12, 12:20 AM
#69
Oh, I thought you were talking about my oil pan, which turned out pretty crappy. But as long as it holds oil, I'll use it. I thought maybe you were comparing my bad welds to yours lol!
I'll answer your questions in the other thread. As for this thread, I'm running various exhaust ideas into the ground, trying to pick apart why one way is better or worse than the other. I guess I could simplify it by saying for those three options listed above, going 3" NA is sure to give decent power and be really loud; it's what everyone does and is sure to work but might not be best for me. The next option is a long primary based on RB's "streetport" which is more risky/ambitious/heavy but gives great low end torque and great noise control but could limit high end with the RB powerpulse muffler (they're only 2.25" ID at the inlet so kinda small for a 20B but nothing else is as quiet and still fits). The third option is of course turbo which is nice and quiet and provides awesome power but can do a lot of damage if I screw up.
Three choices. Three agonizing choices. Gotta pick one.
I'll answer your questions in the other thread. As for this thread, I'm running various exhaust ideas into the ground, trying to pick apart why one way is better or worse than the other. I guess I could simplify it by saying for those three options listed above, going 3" NA is sure to give decent power and be really loud; it's what everyone does and is sure to work but might not be best for me. The next option is a long primary based on RB's "streetport" which is more risky/ambitious/heavy but gives great low end torque and great noise control but could limit high end with the RB powerpulse muffler (they're only 2.25" ID at the inlet so kinda small for a 20B but nothing else is as quiet and still fits). The third option is of course turbo which is nice and quiet and provides awesome power but can do a lot of damage if I screw up.
Three choices. Three agonizing choices. Gotta pick one.
03-19-12, 03:29 AM
#70
It turns out the RB "streetport" may not be available so I'll have to go with the 3" exhaust. Of couse this leaves the turbo on the table. But the more I think about it, the more I'd just like to stay NA. This option wouldn't be available with a long primary.
03-29-12, 03:18 PM
#72
Thanks. Might as well update.
I got the header in the car and tacked on a 3" collector with a flange. Kind of a bad angle so I might redo it. The rest of the 3" exhaust is ready. It just needs a 6" length to join the flange to the center section.
The fuel system is finished. Next up is ignition stuff like coil mounting. Then radiator mounting. I think I'll hook up the ECU first to fire this thing up briefly to hear how loud it's going to be, then add the turbo if necessary. Does that sound reasonable? I think so. Just run it for a few seconds, it won't even need an oil cooler; just a looped line.
Speaking of radiator, I've got a decent one in my other car that's been modded in a way to fit fairly easily in front of the cross tube at kind of an angle. Also two 10" electric fans. I know these fans don't move much air, but ram air is available, unlike in the other car (baja) so the other car is going to get a tall 83-85 type rad and a big 16" fan thus freeing up the short type for here. Hey, ther bigger rad in the baja lets me put an S5 turbo in it. Blow through Nikki of course. I'm having the horns strengthened right now. Wow how did I get derailed so easily?
Oh yeah, the oil cooler is a GSL-SE type and will have an FD oil return line up to the pedestal. I'll have to adapt The FD's 5/8" hose size down to the 20B and older 1/2" size. I'll mount it further forward. The stock short line can probably be reused. Wouldn't that be nice?
I got the header in the car and tacked on a 3" collector with a flange. Kind of a bad angle so I might redo it. The rest of the 3" exhaust is ready. It just needs a 6" length to join the flange to the center section.
The fuel system is finished.
Next up is ignition stuff like coil mounting. Then radiator mounting. I think I'll hook up the ECU first to fire this thing up briefly to hear how loud it's going to be, then add the turbo if necessary. Does that sound reasonable? I think so. Just run it for a few seconds, it won't even need an oil cooler; just a looped line.Speaking of radiator, I've got a decent one in my other car that's been modded in a way to fit fairly easily in front of the cross tube at kind of an angle. Also two 10" electric fans. I know these fans don't move much air, but ram air is available, unlike in the other car (baja) so the other car is going to get a tall 83-85 type rad and a big 16" fan thus freeing up the short type for here. Hey, ther bigger rad in the baja lets me put an S5 turbo in it.
Blow through Nikki of course. I'm having the horns strengthened right now. Wow how did I get derailed so easily?Oh yeah, the oil cooler is a GSL-SE type and will have an FD oil return line up to the pedestal. I'll have to adapt The FD's 5/8" hose size down to the 20B and older 1/2" size. I'll mount it further forward. The stock short line can probably be reused. Wouldn't that be nice?
03-30-12, 03:18 AM
#74
Well if I did go turbo, that would solve all my exhaust headaches. Just 3" and be done with it. EASY. And I'm very tempted right now to just throw the T72 on it and call it good, but don't have enough tuning experience to feel comfortable with it, you know?
I wonder if I could just do a low-key setup. Just run at wastegate spring pressure of 5psi or whatever, like the stock twins originally did, and know it's not going to require a whole lot of fuel or tuning practice to have plenty of fun. This was going to be set up as an NA, so it's not like I spent a lot on clutches and tires or whatever. So 250 to 300HP is fine with me -- I just doubt I'll get that much NA (what with the restrictive intake manifold and potentially restrictive exhaust necessary to keep it quiet on the street).
What do you think, guys?
I wonder if I could just do a low-key setup. Just run at wastegate spring pressure of 5psi or whatever, like the stock twins originally did, and know it's not going to require a whole lot of fuel or tuning practice to have plenty of fun. This was going to be set up as an NA, so it's not like I spent a lot on clutches and tires or whatever. So 250 to 300HP is fine with me -- I just doubt I'll get that much NA (what with the restrictive intake manifold and potentially restrictive exhaust necessary to keep it quiet on the street).
What do you think, guys?
With your turbo and a light wastegate spring pressure you have the car running fine on a base map. It might be a good option to go for a 60mm as the one you have will be too small.
You have a few options with a cooler.
A-Dont run one.
B-Run a barrrel cooler http://pwr.com.au/#/view=products/s=is/
C-Run a FMIC
Option B may give you some breathing space up front
The exhaust system will be much eaiser with a turbo and quiter.
You could run the NA 5 speed and always upgrade to a turbo box if/when the NA one fails. As you have both the NA box and clutch, you might as well use them.
The FB cooler will work, an FC one would be better. The factory oil coolers are a great item.
Have fun deciding
03-30-12, 07:27 PM
#75
Thanks for that. Yeah I could get a cheap 60mm off eBay I suppose. At this point it just needs to be 60mm. Right?
The oil cooler question. I have a spare RX-4 and a REPU cooler which have one more row than the later coolers. Maybe I could use one of these?
At this point it just needs to be 60mm. Right?The oil cooler question. I have a spare RX-4 and a REPU cooler which have one more row than the later coolers. Maybe I could use one of these?