20b or Z06?
02-20-03, 09:32 AM
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20b or Z06?
Just was wondering your thoughts on which you would chose, a 3rd Gen w/ 20b or a 02 Z06 vette. I have been weighing the equation from cost of modding to resale. I have completely gone through my 42k mile 3rd Gen, suspension (Flt-A2's), Petit motor (13b, 99 seq., Streetport, 7k miles), Intercooler, Clutch/Light Flywheel, Block-Sanded Paintjob, Wheels, etc. With the project now over, I am wondering what now.
The 20b conversion cost around 20+k, including all that is involved with motor, tranny (Guru type or other), hardparts, wheels/tires, and misc. conversion items to do it right. After riding in Cam's I know its an awesome car, but I wonder about market value.
On the other hand you can pickup a 02 Z06, 405 hp stock, warranty, for around 38-40k, with resale value.
Your thoughts/choice......
The 20b conversion cost around 20+k, including all that is involved with motor, tranny (Guru type or other), hardparts, wheels/tires, and misc. conversion items to do it right. After riding in Cam's I know its an awesome car, but I wonder about market value.
On the other hand you can pickup a 02 Z06, 405 hp stock, warranty, for around 38-40k, with resale value.
Your thoughts/choice......
02-20-03, 11:03 AM
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https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...01#post1512801
The same discussion is going on under the MVA thread. I have the same concerns as you regarding resale.
The same discussion is going on under the MVA thread. I have the same concerns as you regarding resale.
02-20-03, 11:42 AM
#3
Funny, I thought about this a couple years back also. Covettes are awsome, but it is only a Corvette. Nowhere near the power/speed of what the 20b can get you. If I had a Corvette, I would have to throw tons of money into it to make it faster than every other Vette or Porsche owner and probably still not be up to par with a 20b 3rd gen. (mine is for a 2nd gen so I've already 10-15k less). How much would that cost on top of the price of the car? Do you think you would get that money back? But I hate new cars, they are just a waste of money for something that anyone else can have as opposed to a waste of money that only a few have 
If I really, really wanted a Vette, I'd buy one at least 3 years old.
If I really, really wanted a Vette, I'd buy one at least 3 years old.
02-20-03, 04:11 PM
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"they are just a waste of money for something that anyone else can have as opposed to a waste of money that only a few have"
RX7-Heven
That statement made me laugh, sounds like me talking, I have been there before with other projects.
As far as making power with a vette , ATI has a supercharger (one of many) which dyno's around 520hp for about 7k with stock bottom end. I have already owned a 00 C5 coupe but couldn't live with the auto tranny, was nice otherwise. With 36k already invested in the RX, not sure I can justify the added 20k. But......it's hard to forget a 20b after experiencing one.
CCarlisi
Appreciate your comment, had read it earlier which prompted me to discuss this issue in a seperate thread. Didn't want to take away from MVA and their expertise/business.
RX7-Heven
That statement made me laugh, sounds like me talking, I have been there before with other projects.
As far as making power with a vette , ATI has a supercharger (one of many) which dyno's around 520hp for about 7k with stock bottom end. I have already owned a 00 C5 coupe but couldn't live with the auto tranny, was nice otherwise. With 36k already invested in the RX, not sure I can justify the added 20k. But......it's hard to forget a 20b after experiencing one.
CCarlisi
Appreciate your comment, had read it earlier which prompted me to discuss this issue in a seperate thread. Didn't want to take away from MVA and their expertise/business.
02-25-03, 07:03 PM
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what about a 20b in a z06? i would personally go w/ a single turbo 20b. but seriously i'm not disillusioned into thinking it'll run perfectly all the time, or it'll have enough fuel economy to drive frequently, or it will never overheat or crack an apex seal. to spend 20k+ on a 20b conversion, you have to be a serious rotorhead. your heart has to be 100% in it or you'll be in for a lot of frustration and stress. in the end you're still stuck w/ the shitty build quality of the fd, where everything squeeks or rattles, the interior is falling apart and the doors sound like tin cans when you close em. if you even have to ask this question you should realistically look into just getting a supercharged z06.
03-03-03, 06:20 PM
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what are you going to use the car for? I have a Z06 and a 20b. The vette is a great street\performance car. Sorry rx heaven but i don't totally agree with you. You don't have to throw tons at a zo6 to go fast. I have only done suspension and exhaust on the car and it flies. My 20b is a full race car and is faster than the z06 but the vette would be my car of choice in traffic.
earl
earl
03-04-03, 06:18 AM
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Hello bermuda,
Sounds like you have the best of both worlds.....I am looking for a nice daily driver with reliability. I enjoy a spirited car that responds to the driver and have enjoyed autocrossing. I had done some modifications to my 00 C5 and was pleased with the results for the price. At 46 yrs old, not sure I want to be totally upside down in a modified car (a la 20b), just tired of the finicky niche resale market. I am not trying to discourage anyone from the 20b conversion, the results are breath taking.
But I am probably heading down the Z06 or C6 road this time for reasons that may only be important to me.........take care
Sounds like you have the best of both worlds.....I am looking for a nice daily driver with reliability. I enjoy a spirited car that responds to the driver and have enjoyed autocrossing. I had done some modifications to my 00 C5 and was pleased with the results for the price. At 46 yrs old, not sure I want to be totally upside down in a modified car (a la 20b), just tired of the finicky niche resale market. I am not trying to discourage anyone from the 20b conversion, the results are breath taking.
But I am probably heading down the Z06 or C6 road this time for reasons that may only be important to me.........take care
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03-06-03, 03:01 AM
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I would go test-drive a z06, and drive someones 20b. Is the 20b worth blowing 20k and having a terrible re-sale value in comparison to money spent?
Both will be fast. I've seen a sticky tired cutup intake z06 run 11.60's. I'm sure warranty would still apply to a car with a modded air box
I've even seen a z06 with a tr 227/224 cam make 400rwhp with cam/valvesprings/airfilter as its only mods. Then there is always nitrous or forced induction. If your worried about performance, you shouldn't have to.
I've also read the forums and seen some astounding 20b performance numbers. You will also be have a rarer car with the 20b. Z06's are pretty common. But, a hotrod is a neverending money pit though. Things go wrong, if not now.. in the near future. With the z06, its under warranty 20k is alot to throw into a car, and I would call it quits and let go. The only way you'd possibly be able to experience the 20b rationally would be to sell yours, and buy one already done. That might save you some cash, but I doubt the reliability compaired to the *stock* ls6 motor. The z06 also boasts near 30mpg on the highway!
In any case, money-wise the z06 would be the smartest way to go. It of course looses value quickly like all other american cars, but it wouldn't be throwing away 20k. You could always save up and wait a year or two and let the z06's come down some.. And keep both!
Both will be fast. I've seen a sticky tired cutup intake z06 run 11.60's. I'm sure warranty would still apply to a car with a modded air box
I've even seen a z06 with a tr 227/224 cam make 400rwhp with cam/valvesprings/airfilter as its only mods. Then there is always nitrous or forced induction. If your worried about performance, you shouldn't have to. I've also read the forums and seen some astounding 20b performance numbers. You will also be have a rarer car with the 20b. Z06's are pretty common. But, a hotrod is a neverending money pit though. Things go wrong, if not now.. in the near future. With the z06, its under warranty
20k is alot to throw into a car, and I would call it quits and let go. The only way you'd possibly be able to experience the 20b rationally would be to sell yours, and buy one already done. That might save you some cash, but I doubt the reliability compaired to the *stock* ls6 motor. The z06 also boasts near 30mpg on the highway! In any case, money-wise the z06 would be the smartest way to go. It of course looses value quickly like all other american cars, but it wouldn't be throwing away 20k. You could always save up and wait a year or two and let the z06's come down some.. And keep both!
Last edited by distortion69; 03-06-03 at 03:05 AM.
03-06-03, 07:10 AM
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Distortion69....
Appreciate your comments.......they are thoughts of reality (reliability, resale, and warranty). Your are right performance mods are always a money pit, and there is a line of reasonability you shouldn't cross depending on your wallet, the car you select, and your application.
With this new era of horsepower wars, more options may become available from the many car makers. At the moment, the Z06 appears to be a viable cost option for those that enjoy a performance based daily driver.
Appreciate your comments.......they are thoughts of reality (reliability, resale, and warranty). Your are right performance mods are always a money pit, and there is a line of reasonability you shouldn't cross depending on your wallet, the car you select, and your application.
With this new era of horsepower wars, more options may become available from the many car makers. At the moment, the Z06 appears to be a viable cost option for those that enjoy a performance based daily driver.
03-08-03, 12:54 PM
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Re: 20b or Z06?
Originally posted by Falcon
Just was wondering your thoughts on which you would chose, a 3rd Gen w/ 20b or a 02 Z06 vette. I have been weighing the equation from cost of modding to resale. I have completely gone through my 42k mile 3rd Gen, suspension (Flt-A2's), Petit motor (13b, 99 seq., Streetport, 7k miles), Intercooler, Clutch/Light Flywheel, Block-Sanded Paintjob, Wheels, etc. With the project now over, I am wondering what now.
The 20b conversion cost around 20+k, including all that is involved with motor, tranny (Guru type or other), hardparts, wheels/tires, and misc. conversion items to do it right. After riding in Cam's I know its an awesome car, but I wonder about market value.
On the other hand you can pickup a 02 Z06, 405 hp stock, warranty, for around 38-40k, with resale value.
Your thoughts/choice......
Just was wondering your thoughts on which you would chose, a 3rd Gen w/ 20b or a 02 Z06 vette. I have been weighing the equation from cost of modding to resale. I have completely gone through my 42k mile 3rd Gen, suspension (Flt-A2's), Petit motor (13b, 99 seq., Streetport, 7k miles), Intercooler, Clutch/Light Flywheel, Block-Sanded Paintjob, Wheels, etc. With the project now over, I am wondering what now.
The 20b conversion cost around 20+k, including all that is involved with motor, tranny (Guru type or other), hardparts, wheels/tires, and misc. conversion items to do it right. After riding in Cam's I know its an awesome car, but I wonder about market value.
On the other hand you can pickup a 02 Z06, 405 hp stock, warranty, for around 38-40k, with resale value.
Your thoughts/choice......
03-16-03, 06:07 PM
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falcon
I am selling my 3rd gen if you are interested. I have 90k into it selling for about 45.
New viper on the way! Lot of talking for that one! Paid a current viper owner $$ to have the option to buy. The suckers were offered to current owners first....what a market!
I am selling my 3rd gen if you are interested. I have 90k into it selling for about 45.
New viper on the way! Lot of talking for that one! Paid a current viper owner $$ to have the option to buy. The suckers were offered to current owners first....what a market!
03-19-03, 09:53 PM
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Matt,
I appreciate the offer; I know your 20b is beyond belief on performance (knowing who built it). But I have a line on a 03' "Z06" with 1185 miles and a warranty , its electron blue my second favorite color after Mag Red II (which I had). Like you, I am reducing the price of my "RX" for quick sale and have a perspective buyer tomorrow. He will be getting a great deal and an excellent value in reliable performance, and I will miss it. So life goes on, and if it sells, I will be back in a C5. This is my fourth rotary, in between vettes; they have always kept me coming back. Something is very special about them, but I need to move on to something new. I can no longer be the cross-bearer for them any longer. They need to survive on there own merits, and Mazda has to provide a reason why. So Matt, I wish you the best with your 20b, and a Viper will be an awesome vehicle to own.
Take Care,
Andre
I appreciate the offer; I know your 20b is beyond belief on performance (knowing who built it). But I have a line on a 03' "Z06" with 1185 miles and a warranty , its electron blue my second favorite color after Mag Red II (which I had). Like you, I am reducing the price of my "RX" for quick sale and have a perspective buyer tomorrow. He will be getting a great deal and an excellent value in reliable performance, and I will miss it. So life goes on, and if it sells, I will be back in a C5. This is my fourth rotary, in between vettes; they have always kept me coming back. Something is very special about them, but I need to move on to something new. I can no longer be the cross-bearer for them any longer. They need to survive on there own merits, and Mazda has to provide a reason why. So Matt, I wish you the best with your 20b, and a Viper will be an awesome vehicle to own.
Take Care,
Andre
03-20-03, 10:30 AM
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If you are thinking about doing a 20B Conversion and also thinking about resale, then you are thinking about doing a 20B for the wrong reasons. You dont do a 20B to get resale. It is a very niche class. Only someone who is a true RX-7 lover and true rotorhead can ever really appreciate the concept. You do it for the sheer joy of driving an FD that will out run just about anycar on the road for two to three times the money you spent on your FD. How many cars that are truely street cars can run over 125mph in the 1/4 mile on street tires and still drive around town in rush hour traffic and provide the comfort of air conditioning? I know mine can! Just ask the Viper driver that I beat by 2-3 car lengths about how cool the ball of fire was that came out of my tail pipe after i beat him. He didnt want to run again but said it looked really COOL!
03-20-03, 12:53 PM
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Derrick
I think you hit the nail on the head; the 20B conversion is for rotor fanatics only. It's a serious waste of cash otherwise.
If you love the RX7 and love the rotary then do it and love it when it's done. Dismiss all that cash your pissing away in the process. Simple. If you want a fast car with a warranty that will have good residuals then go buy a Vette/whatever and join all the other Vette/whatever owners out there. Simple.
For me it'd be the 20B FD. But I'm a fanatic who's 'happy' to accept the associated pit falls/expense.
In fact I have about 99% of every thing I need now, which is handy cause my conversion gets underway in 2 weeks time :-)
I'm doing it cause I love the FD and love the triple. I dont see it being sold ever so the financial outlay is acceptable for me....
Rich
I think you hit the nail on the head; the 20B conversion is for rotor fanatics only. It's a serious waste of cash otherwise.
If you love the RX7 and love the rotary then do it and love it when it's done. Dismiss all that cash your pissing away in the process. Simple. If you want a fast car with a warranty that will have good residuals then go buy a Vette/whatever and join all the other Vette/whatever owners out there. Simple.
For me it'd be the 20B FD. But I'm a fanatic who's 'happy' to accept the associated pit falls/expense.
In fact I have about 99% of every thing I need now, which is handy cause my conversion gets underway in 2 weeks time :-)
I'm doing it cause I love the FD and love the triple. I dont see it being sold ever so the financial outlay is acceptable for me....
Rich
03-20-03, 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by rxman720b
If you are thinking about doing a 20B Conversion and also thinking about resale, then you are thinking about doing a 20B for the wrong reasons. You dont do a 20B to get resale. It is a very niche class. Only someone who is a true RX-7 lover and true rotorhead can ever really appreciate the concept. You do it for the sheer joy of driving an FD that will out run just about anycar on the road for two to three times the money you spent on your FD. How many cars that are truely street cars can run over 125mph in the 1/4 mile on street tires and still drive around town in rush hour traffic and provide the comfort of air conditioning? I know mine can! Just ask the Viper driver that I beat by 2-3 car lengths about how cool the ball of fire was that came out of my tail pipe after i beat him. He didnt want to run again but said it looked really COOL!
If you are thinking about doing a 20B Conversion and also thinking about resale, then you are thinking about doing a 20B for the wrong reasons. You dont do a 20B to get resale. It is a very niche class. Only someone who is a true RX-7 lover and true rotorhead can ever really appreciate the concept. You do it for the sheer joy of driving an FD that will out run just about anycar on the road for two to three times the money you spent on your FD. How many cars that are truely street cars can run over 125mph in the 1/4 mile on street tires and still drive around town in rush hour traffic and provide the comfort of air conditioning? I know mine can! Just ask the Viper driver that I beat by 2-3 car lengths about how cool the ball of fire was that came out of my tail pipe after i beat him. He didnt want to run again but said it looked really COOL!
03-20-03, 06:26 PM
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RXman/Flint
I am happy for the both of you and wish you the best during your conversion project. You are right after owning four RXs, I am not committed enough to spend that kind of disposable cash. Going fast in a straight line can be achieved much cheaper on a Yamaha R1. No Flames.
I am happy for the both of you and wish you the best during your conversion project. You are right after owning four RXs, I am not committed enough to spend that kind of disposable cash. Going fast in a straight line can be achieved much cheaper on a Yamaha R1. No Flames.
03-21-03, 05:29 PM
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You are right they do go around corners, I enjoyed alittle autocrossing with mine. Never did the strip thing. The JIC Flt-A2 and sway bar were just the ticket, actually beat a Z06 with it one day on AVS Sports. Sold her yesterday though, seemed odd to not see her in the morning. Went to a good home though. I guess I'm in morning lol.
Bermuda20b
I would enjoy seeing a little about yours if you have any information/pics and have the time. Not sure its right for me but I guess I can't resist the temptation to at least see it.
apolidor@bellsouth.net
Bermuda20b
I would enjoy seeing a little about yours if you have any information/pics and have the time. Not sure its right for me but I guess I can't resist the temptation to at least see it.
apolidor@bellsouth.net
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