Evil Aviator

Sorry, but your research wasn't very good. If you want the car running ASAP, then stick with the stock turbos. Cost and complexity jumps rapidly with the aftermarket single-turbo swap.

As for the EMS, just go with whatever brand your local tuner recommends for your application. No, you can't tune this yourself. Yes, it is better to pay $1-2K more for a properly tuned EMS on a nice sports car rather than save some money and have a POS wouda, coulda shoulda-been nice car that doesn't run. If you want something cheap, check to see if any of your local Microtech dealers are willing to install and tune an EMS for your car.

Also, my intent is to be a realist rather than an elitist when I specify the cost of this conversion. I fully realize that just because somebody can afford something it doesn't necessarily mean that they are willing to buy it, especially on unnecessary luxury items that have little resale value. However, I think people should be advised of the true costs before starting a project to reduce the chance of failure.

As much as I like the Wolf EMS, I totally agree with you.

So are you saying that people can drop off their car at your house, and you will convert it to a well-running and reliable 20B for $7K?

Sorry, but $7K is not realistic. I am sure that somebody could do the conversion for $50 if they had an engine given to them, their car was already set up with a standalone EMS and whatnot, they were a skilled mechanic and tuner, and they worked at a machine shop and/or race shop that let them use the equipment and materials for free. However, I don't think it would really help the people on this forum if I posted $50 as the conversion cost.

Also, you could build your own 20B for next to nothing if you had your own mineral mine, smelter, mill, etc., lol.

thetech

iTrader: (1)

Probably about right David, only items I have differed on are:

- I paid $500 for my manifold to be custom made, $400 for the wastegate, and $1100 for the turbo. These days I think the eBay intercoolers are a great bang for the buck, especially given that mine cost $79 and is practically identical to the $1400 Spearco I have on my RX8. I'm at around $2k for the turbo parts, not including the fabrication for intercooler piping and downpipe, which is around $500-1000.

- On the ignition side, I am using new Z06/LS7 coils which are $25/ea new and about $50 for the harnesses. These haven't been tested on a dyno yet so can't confirm if they are going to do the job, but we'll soon see!

I'd also add that rebuilding and studding the motor probably isn't necessary right off the bat, but depends on how willing you are to take the motor in and out of the car frequently

patman

iTrader: (3)

My cost includes only parts and material, I did all the fabrication, mechanicing, and tuning myself.
My garage page on nopistons has prices for all parts bought. Right now, I have around 13k in the car, including original purchase, but I have put several thousand into it since adding the 20B, and also a good sum into unnecessary stuff like bodywork.

crispeed

Just like choosing your tuner before ECU brand.

David Hayes

iTrader: (6)

^Ouch, so true, particularly in my case

RETed

Oh, now you're going to restrict prices?
MoTeC has the BEST tech support for "entry-level" aftermarket EMS'.
Don't talk about **** you have no idea about.


Funny, and I thought I had made my points very clear.
You must be smoking some good ****.
Gimme some of that...



Again, why you bitching about the prices all of a sudden?

I just love it how you cannot retort other replies that attack your claims.
You think we're all going to just agree with you?
Well, I'll tell you where you can shove your opinions...

I still think Autronic beats your Wolf hands-down in terms of entry-level EMS'.
Too bad the local Autronic distributor is not very friendly down here...

Wolf fucked it up with the v3.
They kinda had a clue with the v4 / v4+.
It looks like they revamped their line-up again with the v400 and the v500...
Took then long enough...


-Ted

t-von

iTrader: (8)

David the cheaper price is of people who know how to do their own fabrication. Example! I've spent less than $100.00 on the fabrication of my project thus far. With that $100.00, I've fabbed my sub frame, tranny and diff mounts. I've moved my engine back 5 1/2" and relocated the shifter. Rebuilding the engine isn't that extensive. The internal seals are proven to last for well over 200k, the only thing that really needs replacing is the apex seals and a gasket kit. Hell I reused the corner, side seals, and oil control o-rings from my 91 vert engine that had 150k on it. 14k later it's still making compression in the 100's. 14k is probably more than what most will put on a modified 20b engine in it's life time. I also put together my own aftermarket gasket kit that cost me around $100.00. Balancing is only necessary if you swap out the rotors. My engine is going to me NA so that helps a ton with cost and re-usability.

Bottom line, the major expenses with any engine swap is with fabrication.

David Hayes

iTrader: (6)

^Agreed, you can always save big bucks doing it yourself. If not, plan on writing a big check for the conversion.

frisc

iTrader: (2)

No my research is good.... did i ever say i needed it done asap....no. I want to be driving it by mid june though that gives me about 7 months to try and get it done.

I calculated up the cost of the swap and it's going to be around 18k give or take a couple grand, depending what parts i buy. I will be doing all the labor except doing the rebuild and tunning im leaving that up to logan and peter from defined autoworks.

motor-3,500
ecu-3,000
rebuild/sp-3600
subframe-1,600
fuel-1,000
turbokit-4,500
exhaust-600
clutch/flywheel-christmas gift
intercooler- using my old one
radiator- using my old one


thats 17,800 so far minus stuff i sold
13b-1000
pfc-600
turbokit-1300
gt35r-800

so now im around $14,100 + odds and ends lets say 4,000 so for the entire swap im looking at around $18,000 plus or minus a couple grand with all the labor done by me.

thetech

iTrader: (1)

I'd say that's probably about right. I am at about $17k doing it in an FC without rebuilding the engine though

You can look at my spreadsheet here (there are some things missing as I've been lazy in the last few months):

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...gfYjKzMQ&hl=en

David Hayes

iTrader: (6)

^Those estimates look right to me also, provided you do your own labor. Good luck with the project and be sure to post pics!