Ok so i just picked up another car... S4 GXL. I havent done alot of research yet but im very seriously considering a 20B conversion for it. I know its expensive and takes alot of time and planning so i want to make sure i have all the facts and what not.. here is what i know... you can get the engine for around 5-6K. Im pretty set on just going with a haltech E11 for computer and im fairly certain a TII tranny will bolt up( correct me if im wrong). Banzai offers mounts to fit the engine in an FC so dropping in shouldnt be a problem. and it looks like basic rebuilds are going for almost 3 grand and i think thats just for NA. So its looks like at least 10K for basics. What other parts are for sure needed besides above? Thanks for the help.

 

Clucth, fuel, and a beefy cooling system.

 

and more money.....

 

if youre starting with a gxl, you will need a TII rear end as well.

you can get the engine for 4k if you shop a little.

unless you are a fabricator, you will pay a nice chunk of change for a header

don't forget an ignition system... good coils cost $100 apiece and you need 6 of em

to make it fit right in a FC, you need to move or replace the front swaybar

my personal opinion here, but I think its dumb to go NA. First of all, rotaries are so well suited to turbocharging that in general an NA wankel doesnt make much sense. Second, a NA 20B will make 200-300 hp, which is easily obtainable with a 13b for 1/4 the cost and 1/8 the work.

 

ok.. that makes sense. but 200-300 hp isnt very realistic from a 13b na which is what i have now. I m still juggling going turbo or not. My original idea was to do the 20B with ITBs and porting. to be honest im not looking to throw down ridiculous numbers. from what i have read and heard 350 is easily attainable from NA 20B and that is alot of power. Plus dont you really have to beef up your tranny around 400hp?
thanks again for the help keep it coming.

 

why are the 20B engines so expensive? They have 3 rotors right?

 

No, you would have to go turbo, but that would be WAY cheaper and easier than a 20B.

As far as the tranny, I put down 575 to the wheels and have several thousand miles on my original (~80k miles before the 20B, 10k after) TII tranny with no problems, but I might just be lucky.

I'm not trying to talk you out of this, just want you to go at it the right way. Don't just buy an engine and screw around for years like a lot of people, make a specific plan including goals and budget before you start.

Personally, I wouldnt mess with a 20B unless I was going to turbo it and make at least 400whp, but again thats just me. I'm more the practical type and don't care too much about the 'coolness factor'

 

You sound like a friend of mine.. he say "Plan everything out before you do it and do the rearch." and thanks for the opinion again. Im can honestly say that im doing half for cool because you dont really see that many 20Bs rollin around and like i said 300-350 hp is quite a bit and when its done its gonna be my DD so im not lookin for anything that extreme at the moment. and i dont really care how long it takes me to do it because i do have another car to drive and whatnot i just got the RB header, ps and an Apex N1 for the 13b. im excited.

 

you can check out my 20B in my FC, posted some pics of it on the 2nd gen forum, it's under My 20B W/pics

 

Damn man that car is clean. That def. gets WOW big time lol. How much power you puttin down? Total cost on rebuild and essentials to make her run? Im lovin the vmount too. sexy

 

Yes, $10K is a good estimate for a really basic setup if you perform most of the labor yourself. Most of the well-built 20B RX-7's have about $35K in them, while the nice ones are in the $50K-120K range.

See Patman's above posts for good info.

I also agree with Patman in that an NA 20B isn't worth the trouble unless you just REALLY like NA engines or you are restricted by your racing class. Most used 20B-REW engines come with the factory turbos, so there isn't much point in ripping them off so you can spend more time and money converting to ITB's which will make less power and more noise. My suggestion is to just use the stock turbos and get the engine installed and working as-is, and then convert to a fancier setup later if you like.

A 20B conversion is a custom process in which you will need to determine what else is needed for your particular application. This is not a simple bolt-on part with easy instructions, regardless of how much we all may wish that it were.

 

Again... thanks alot! i wasnt aware that all the 20Bs were tt. and if thats the case youre right why spend the extra money to go backwards haha. and this is gonna be my street car( for the summer anyway). i want to do at least a basic rebuild on it though just to make sure everything is in good working order. Im really glad you guys are being as helpful as you are.. some forums are bad for bein ********.

 

Yes, every production 20B was tt. See the 20B FAQ. I wrote it a while ago when I moderated this forum, and nobody has taken the time to update it, but most of the info is still valid.

That is even more reason to keep it turbo. As much as I like NA engines, turbocharger turbine wheels soak up a LOT of noise which allows for much more power when restricted to street car noise levels. It is also easier to pass emissions testing with a 400bhp turbocharged engine than it is with a 400bhp NA engine. Yes, I know, the usual "but I don't need to pass emissions!" answer follows that statement. However, I have been on this forum long enough to see some really nice RX-7s sold because the owner moved to a state in which there ARE emissions standards which their car will not pass. It is always better to have the option to pass if need be. It sucks to have a really nice track-only car that you can only drive a few times a year.

 

You just need to take what is written into context. Some forums seem harsh because of the advanced level of the average members, and the 20B forum is very much this way. Here are some clarifications to common misconceptions:

Hyper-sensitive thinking:
Search noob = The smart guys on this forum want to keep their secrets from me so that I can't be as smart as them.
Your spelling is terrible = The elite spelling ***** are being mean to me because I am different.
Your idea is stupid = The people on this forum are being "haters" and slamming my idea without even knowing if it will work or not.

Actuality on this forum:
Search noob = This has already been posted on the forum, and the people who VOLUNTEER their time do not consider it worth their time to answer the question yet again for somebody who has the audacity to think that his/her time is more important than the people whose advice they are seeking.
Your spelling is terrible = It is very difficult for anybody to answer your question if they can't understand it, and you could have at least used a spell check function prior to asking for free help.
Your idea is stupid = Your idea really is stupid, it has either been tried before or we have enough college education or work experience to determine that it is physically impossible or at least highly unlikely to work, and we are just trying to keep you from wasting your time and money.

 

hahaha i like this stuff. its very true though. but yeah, after all thats been said the car will stay turbo. Im gonna do some searching and reading on some more stuff but i wanna keep this thread up to post pics of the build as i go. Im hopin to get the car in the body shop so i can start workin on it soon. I think it should be a fun time. keep up the posts!

 

lost count already but not cheap, make sure who ever does your work knows what they are doing alot of custom fab, but a rough estimate about 20K just on motor and labor

 

True that. Im just gonna get my hands on one and leave as is and put it in. And like you both said then decide what or if i wanna do anything to it. BTW i just installed the RB header and ps on my na 13b and its sweet. very very loud.. the mufffler is going on tomorrow lol. i set off a car alarm tonight.

 

so when you say beefy cooling system. would somthing like a koyo rad. and dual oil cooler setup be enough?

 

nice build up, cant wait to see it finish

 

same here