teachermechanic

iTrader: (4)

Hi, i planning to buy 20B w/o wiring and computer.
Now i don't know if is possible to run with 2 FD computer?
Anybody try this with success?

RETed

Anything is possible, but I think you're talking the really, Really, REALLY hard road to get it to run.

The ignition triggers are totally wrong, so unless you run some kinda funky ignition trigger, it's not going to work.


-Ted

johnisenglish

Even if you got all the sensors, timing, etc going (and without a CEL), you'd be running very limited, very conservative maps. You'd end up having to get them re-programmed, and you'd spend much more money then if your had just bought a real engine management setup to start with.

In short, it won't ever realistically work.

FlyingPig

I dont know if this would work, but i know the TEC II (and more importantly the TEC III) can run alot of engines, maybe they can even be configured to run the 13b and 20b. Your best bet is to call up TEC and ask them, they're very helpful.

Evil Aviator

Hehehe, I hesitated to respond to this because I would love to see RETed's response, lol.

Anyway, yes, two TECII computers or one TECIII can run split timing on a 20B. Additionally, the Haltech E11, Microtech LTX12, and Wolf3DV4 Plus can also run split timing on a 20B, and they are less expensive and easier to install than the TEC computers. The Motec M8 series, and maybe the new M600 EMS, can also run split timing on a 20B, but they are rather expensive. Just about any EMS that can run a 6-cylinder engine can run a 20B with simultaneous ignition timing (no split).

Unless you are an electronics expert whose time is only worth about $5/Hr, you are better off buying a standalone EMS. The Microtech LTX-12 isn't exactly my favorite EMS, but with a retail price of about $1,000, it is by far a better option than a jury-rigged EMS, stock JC Cosmo EMS, or ghetto carburetor setup.
http://www.rx7store.net/product.asp?0=208&1=297&3=792

RETed

I give up already...

It's funny for a guy who's pushing so hard for the Electromotive stuff, the TEC I wasn't mentioned.  Did Electromotive finally discontinued them?


-Ted

Evil Aviator

LOL

Actually, I haven't seen the TECI or TECII for sale recently, so I wonder if they are just going with the TECIII now? It would make sense to drop the older units, IMO.

FlyingPig

TEC I has been discontinued for a while (atleast two years), they wont even support them. The tec II was recently discontinued (the past year) and they dont officialy support those anymore either.

You can still get them on ebay tho.

The TEC III is really a great ecu, they charge an arm and a leg for it, but its great, its packaged very well. (and as an FSAE member, packaging is important to me.)

no, just cause its old doesnt mean its bad, its much more reliable than alot of other ones out there.

Evil Aviator

Yeah, as an FC3SE member, packaging is very important to me, too. I like bubble-wrap. What kind of packaging does the TECIII have?

Actually, the older TEC units had a lot of problems with dropping their ignition zero upon power-down, which made them much less reliable than any other EMS.

Haltech dropped the E6K, Wolf dropped the V3, and Microtech dropped the MT series. I am not saying that any of these old units are bad, but they just are not worth buying when you can get the far superior newer models for nearly the same price. Well, the MT series was bad for road racing, but it worked fine for drag racing.

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

hey evil, dont knock the stock cosmo computer!! im gonna have to use that thing

johnisenglish

Rotormotor - its not worth it, trust me. I've used stock ECU's in crazy swaps before and it produces WAY too many headaches. That was in a Chevy Blazer a while ago, and I'm sure its nothing compared to what you'll likely go through with the Cosmo unit.

At the very least I would recommend contacting Pettit to see if they can reprogram it for you, as that will make your life a lot easier. However, even if you do that and you can get it running, you're going to be extremely limited in what you can do, in such a way that might end up damaging the car.

Get a good ECU, its the heart and soul of any EFI system, and you'll thank yourself for it in the end.

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

i just want to make sure i can get it running with the stock ECU... i wont run it like that for long... but i dont want to try and go all out before i know that i can get to 1st base.

way to many headaches?? please elaborate? how could it damage the engine? as long as i run a boost controller to make sure i dont overboost what could be the problem?

FYI corksport can send it out and have the cosmo unit modified, but i dont see the point really.... if youre going all out then why use the stock ECU? if your running the motor stock, why use anything besides the stock ecu? overkill in both situations.

my build plan basically is: get motor mounted/running in stock form. be thankfull you made it this far and enjoy for awhile. then start building it up like you would any other 13b stock motor... 1st step large FMIC, 2nd Haltech e11 and tuning, 3rd modify turbos or go single, 4th port/rebuild motor, etc... the good thing about this build plan is that you can stop at any step if you feel that you are satisfied with the car. makes sense to me..... i dont know, what do you think about that plan?

johnisenglish

As far as headaches with the ECU goes, you're likely going to experience wiring hell on earth. The ECU is going to expect to see a lot of things - variable exhaust, emissions equipment, automatic transmissions, etc - that you're probably not going to have. You're either going to have to trick it into thinking that those things are there (which is time consuming and confusing, unless you're REALLY good with electronics, simpy because the documentation isn't avaliable for it) or reprogram it to not look for them (but like you said, thats kind of a waste of money).

You'll run the risk of damaging the engine for the same reasons you'd risk damaging a stock 13brew with its stock ecu. Once you have an open exhaust, intake, etc, its going to be moving more air then stock, and thus need more fuel. The ECU won't be able to cope with that without band-aids, and you're going to have problems. You can either re-program it (a waste of money) use a piggyback (a bigger waste of money) keep it stock (it'll never be stock if its not in the car it was designed for) or get a programable ECU (bingo!).

I can certainly understand your desire to build the car over time, but trust me, getting a good ECU should be step one. If you need to save more money its worth the wait.

Evil Aviator

It's a complete waste of time. I have said it before, and I will say it again... spend your time working part-time at Burger King, and you will most likely be able to afford a standalone EMS by working less hours than it would take you to rig a stock Cosmo unit to work.

johnisenglish

Yeah. Evil pretty much summed up what I was trying to say in one sentance.

Seriously, just say no to the Cosmo ECU.