NZConvertible

Because this is a technical forum, not the Lounge. Things here should be kept at least slightly realistic. It's also the FC forum, and a 20B 350Z doesn't belong here. No, you said "it isnt a 3.5 liter V6 its smaller", which is a statement of fact, not an "I think". Another problem here is people stating "facts" and getting upset when people point out they're wrong. I'm not implying you're a regular culprit (you're not), just saying it is a common occurence. Because lots of people come here to share info and learn about their cars and are sick of all the BS and pipedreams. And this is the internet; a lot of people are reading what you post. You have to be prepared for some people to disagree with you, and you have to be prepared to take some heat if you post "facts" that are wrong.

NZConvertible

This is exactly what I'm talking about...

Piranha

How do I fit a 12A in my ferrari?

RX-7Impreza

its called a CORRECTION. you dont have to call people names to tell them they are incorrect on something

i agree that this shouldnt be in the FC forum... not the point... people need to learn a littl couthe (sp?)

it is fine to correct all you want but dont run people off just for being incorrect or being in the wrong forum or trying to be a know-it-all, we need to be a little nicer to each other. try pretending these are your co-workers. we all know that you dont want to pis your coworkers off because you have to see them everyday. so chill out. yeah it can get irritating, but calling names isnt gonna help

Justin

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

O.K. guys!

I knew when I posted this thread that it did not belong hear but I know some of you all that hang out in this forum and get along with most so I would have trusted your info and opinions.

the reason I posted the thread is because my friend who is getting the 350Z likes the car but likes the idea of rotary engines and I am trying to get him into it but he don't perticularly like the FC, FD, or Fb. He asked me how much one of those engines to be installed.
Being a newcomer to the world of rotary cars I did not know so I asked.

P.S. To those who defended my question and idea thankyou for bieng friends to me as I take all true RX-7 enthusiasts to be.

P.P.S To those who flamed me don't post unless you have something positive to say.

P.P.P.S. To the moderators remember the mustang thread and how I flammed the mustang I think that if you flame someone it is the same thing as what I did to mustangs why don't you all do something about that. Maybe if you all would be less leneant on flammers this forum would not be so harsh on new comers.

RX7withNitrous

doesn't my v-10 dodge viper put out the same amount of hp as the civic si.....no...no it does not.

bingoboy

no of course not...same torque rating though right?

RX-7Impreza

there you go.... people who ask stupid questions may or may not be stupid, we dont need to make that decision for them.

Justin

hypntyz7

I see youre not only a newbie to the rx-7 forum, or the car itself, but rather the internet or the real world as a whole. As I have said many times before and will continue to say, if you dont want to open yourself up to others' opinions and ctiricisms, why would you post things on the internet that might invite such? IT's not much different than standing on a streetcorner and yelling out to the world. Someone is bound to yell something back at you...does that make them wrong? Does it make you wrong? Nope...

zelgadiss-san

yes. yes they did. there's a reason only one car company in the WORLD has ever used the rotary engine.

and the wright brothers were ridiculed for their ideas, and people laughed at them and laughed at them, until they finally did it.

StarionX

Well actually, when the wankel came out, just about all car manufacturers bought the rights to make and use it. In fact, some actually did make rotary powered cars NSU was the first to make the Wankel engine http://www.monito.com/wankel/nsu.html
Anyone up for a quad rotor corvette!?

The Rotary Engined Chevrolet Corvettes

In 1970, Chevrolet obtained a licence for the Wankel RCE from NSU, for a cost of $50 million, at the direction of GM President Ed Cole, whose background was engineering. They began building a two-rotor and a four-rotor Corvette [1, 2], in the highly desirable mid-engine format. Zora Arkus-Duntov met with Bill Mitchell to discuss a four rotor Corvette in 1970. Zora gave him the chassis from the XP-895 mid-engine experimental car shown at the April 1970 New York Auto show. A fibreglass model was approved in June 1971 by Cole [4].

On Jan. 14, 1972, a chassis was shipped to Pininfarina, Turin, Italy so that the body could be constructed by the famed design studio [4]. In June of the same year, a 2 rotor Corvette with a steel body was viewed by GM management [4, 5]. The same year DeLorean at GM commissioned a two-rotor version of the XP-882 and built it as the XP-987GT [2].

In January 1973, a Corvette body, also based on the XP-882 chassis, was built for an experimental four-rotor car [4]. This was designed by Charles M. Jordan and William L. Mitchell's staff. It got the project name XP-895. A second version of this body was made in aluminum alloy and got a 454 V-8 [7]. Two of the two rotor Wankels were glommed together into a four rotor 420 bhp engine and this was installed in the first XP-895 by Gib Hufstader [8]. Mitchell's staff under Henry Haga [8], at Duntov's urging, designed an all-new body for the "Four-Rotor Car" [7,8].

By April, the GALCIT wind tunnel in California was used to test the aerodynamic qualities of the 4-rotor Corvette [4]. The coefficient of drag came out very low for its time: 0.325. The car was only 44 inches high and had gull-wing doors [7]. The interior had digital instruments.

In September 13, 1973 a 266 ci two-rotor Corvette (XP-897GT) was shown in Frankfurt, Germany [1, 3] with a steel body. The four-rotor 390 ci mid-engined Corvette was shown at Paris, France on Oct. 4, 1973, as well as the two-rotor [1]. Oct. 17 they are both shown at the London Auto Show.

On September 24, 1974, GM Pres. Ed Cole postponed the introduction of the Wankel engine, ostensibly due to emissions difficulties [6]. He retired the same month. In 1976 the body was resuscitated with a V-8 400 engine and redubbed the "Aerovette" [7]. On April 12, 1977, GM announced it is stopping all R & D on rotary engines [9].


Mazda was the only manufacturer to persist with the rotary.

Roy James

DAYAMN you motha ******* are some funny *****. Sweet Jesus. Aight, so your boy wants to slap a 20B in a 350Z. Well, see how much he can get for the 3.5L V6 thats in there along with the tranny, harness and ECU ( i couldn't begin to guess, but if i did, i would say around.. ****... 10K-15K? Due to it being brand *** new and new technology) And, well, you can get a 20B for a few grand around the J-Spec sites (used and reliability is questionable, i would say get that bitch rebuilt), or you could go the route of "evilrx7.com" and others who have made a three rotor 13B. Do the research on everything. and see how much money he will be loosing (trust me, the boys going to loose money).

Once you get the 20B, a trans for it (whichever the **** you want to use, i guess an FD trans? would be the best) and the harness/ecu. I would have a centerline/blueprint of the enginebay done, to get your center point (um, kinda self explainitory) and lower the engine on the "grid" so its in the center, then have someone custom fab some mounts for you. The farther back you can get the block the better. After the trans and motor are in, the driveshaft will have to be cut/modified to work with that rear end and the trans. Be sure that its balenced too.

Other things you want to consider, is how to mount the AC from teh 350Z to work with the mounts on the 20B block. You will probably have to custom make that **** (or just get lucky as ****), same with the P/S. Exhaust is going to have to be replaced, and depending on if you are running turbo or not, you will have to run all of that piping and jive.

Im no professional, or anything, but, i would say about 20+K could probably have it done, so your freind will have about a 50K 20B 350Z, a one of a kind car, with a one of a kind ache in his ***.

Hope this sorta helps, anyone add to it.

Wankel7

Hum, some of the replies in here are the reason a very smart person left this area.

Lets not continue the trend gentlemen (and ladies).

James

Roy James

Man, ill agree with you 100% we all need a good reality check and a great chill pill.

RX-7Impreza

other companies which used rotaries included Mercedes, Fiat, and two other european car makers....

just because you dont like an idea doesnt make it stupid, nor does its impractality

chill
Justin

NZConvertible

That's true, but in this case the idea is stupid and impractical, for a whole list of reasons. For all that considerable cost and effort you'd end up with a car that is illegal, has no warranty and probably wouldn't even be any faster.

As for chilling, if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen...

RX-7Impreza

you are completely correct NZ, but i will go back to my wankel example. it was completely impractical for him to come up with the design for the wankel at the time. there was already a proven from of combustion engine and for all he knew he wouldnt even have A MOTOR, much less one that is legal, with a warranty, and it still isnt faster.

his idea was stupid and impractical for more reasons than this and required much more thought and effort than a simple engine swap. but now you dedicate a good deal of your time to his "baby". I'm not trying to say that 350Z's with 20b swaps will be the next big thing, but you never know whose "stupid" idea will become the next work of genius

i can take the heat i just dont want this to end up in a name calling match

Justin

Evil Aviator

OK, the thread is now in the 20B forum where it belongs.

Yes, I have noticed that some people leave this forum because they think that it is too unruly. I have also noticed that some people leave this forum (sometimes unwillingly) because they think it is over-moderated. Personally, I think that this forum operates in a happy middle ground, and it is my job to try to keep it this way, although it will never be perfect. I believe that civilized controversy advances one's knowledge and social skills, and this is why I volunteer my time to support this forum.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

Now that we have determined that a 20B swap into a new 350Z is impractical, is there anybody with any input as to how to do it, what kind of work is involved, and how much it would cost somebody with average mechanical skills?

Kurgan

You're obviously going to have to make a tranny adpater, motor mounts and probably a lot more than that. I've personally never looke under the hood of a new Z, but I doubt there is THAT much room over on the passenger side where most the business takes place. Unfortunately, the stock UIM is fairly tall, another thing that may cause some irritations.

silver kodiak

personaly i think the swap of that mustang to the 89 350 would be a large improvment in quite a few respect's (workedon too many peice o crap ford's)

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

OK after all this time no one really gave me a good answer.
The fact is my friend has got the determination to do the swap and I wanted to help him out. my friend did not really want to do this for performance but for being uniqe and radical.

Evil Aviator

Well, I'm not quite sure what you expected to get out of this forum by asking how to swap a rare Japanese-only engine into a new car that nobody has had a chance to work on yet. However, I wish your friend the best of luck, and I'm sure that everybody would like to see pictures and updates on the project.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

well if you like i can go and measure my 20b up and he can go and measure a new 350z, to say he's on his own is a understatement. 22" long 27" between framrails for starters. the real issue as far as i see is that you are going from a 287hp 274lbsft to 276hp and 270lbs ft, so to go thru $10k+ and at least 6 months of work while voiding the warranty to make the car slower?

mike

CHEF_EG_1

Just a little FYI.... GReddy (eww, the devil... I know...) made a TT 350Z for the SEMA show... claimed 450rwhp @10psi. They said the whole kit would be on the market by the end of January.