TurboIIGuy

okay so it's been a day and a half and I still can't get it to start.......Considering I've owned about 6 RX7's in the past 2 years and done countless motor swaps for others I can't believe I am having this problem.....
I can't figure it out.
So now I am at the mercy of the Forum....someone help me!!!!!
Here is a run down on the car.
1984 GSL 12a.
All emmissions removed and have been that way for 1 year.
This car was the daily driver with no problems ever.
The only wiring under the hood is:
oil temp.
Oil pressure.
oil level.
Water temp.
Water level.
Starter.
Alternator.
Distributor.
There are no wires to the carb or any emmisions as stated earlier.
I pulled out the motor to swap to a light flywheel and RB clutch.
I also cleaned off the motor but not with a hose or anything so no water was near it in masses.
I changed the motor mounts and dropped it back in.
It spins and cranks and I here good even sounding compression on all 6 pulses since the headers are not connected to the exhaust right now.
The motor only has about 60k on a rebuild from years back.
I removed the plugs when it wouldnt start and cleaned them and I jetted some ATF in there to make sure the apex seals had lube if it was flodded.
I reinstalled the plugs about 5 times now, removing them several times to clean them off.
I have been trying to start this thing for hours a day now.
I never removed the distributor or coils.
Yes the wires are getting spark. I removed them all and connected plugs and sat them on the fender while I cranked it and they all spark nicely.
The motor does not even misfire, stumble or pop. It just cranks as if though there are no spark plug wires connected.....WTF??
I have tried spraying starting fluid in the carb which I have used to run rotary's on when bench testing them when there is no fuel available.....
So at the very least if I was not getting fuel or if there were a vacuum leak it should have at least misfired or stumbled at some point in all the hours I have been trying to start it.
I am out of clues.
I don't understand whats wrong.
I even had a friend retard the dizzy by hand while I was cranking it but still
nothing....What is wrong????? What do I try now????
Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TurboIIGuy

bump

Aviator 902S

Very strange. You have fire to the plugs, and your bench test method for delivering fuel should have at least given you a couple of pops.

Only two things will cause this:

1. Incorrect amount of fuel to the engine, ie: too much, too little or none at all, or
2. Incorrect spark timing or no spark at all.

As stupid as this question may sound to you, are the plug wires still connected correctly, ie: L1 to bottom fwd plug, L2 to bottom rear, T1 to top front, T2 to top rear? If the leading are reversed the engine will run, but detonate severely. If the trailing are reversed the same symptoms will result. If both leading and trailing are reversed the car will not start, even though you have fire.

Also, I know you used starting fluid but just for grins, disconnect the main fuel hose into the carb and then turn the key to the 'on' position. You should hear the fuel pump and see fuel coming out of the line.

TurboIIGuy

as far as fuel goes I have the pump on a switch and it is noticably noisy. Its a stock pump.
It is flowing just fine, I already checked it.
I tried firing it up with pump on and with it off and with starting fluid and without..
I have started motors before in so many different ways but nothing is working now.
I checked my ignition setup several times now, even switching th ewires on my coils to make sure they were connected in the right order.yes I have also check to make sure that the wires come from the cap and go to the right plugs, I have had 2 of my roatary head buddies check it out to.
We just cant figure it out.
I can't even get it to pop or misfire........just nothing.

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

You should just junk it...for a 12-pack of heine's, I can tow it for free.
Just kidding. where in Socal-if ur 5-10 minutes away from me, I will come by.

Rotarx7

iTrader: (3)

haha.. as soon as i saw that Wackyracer replied to this i already had in mind what he to say.. "JUNK IT!!"

The only thing that i have to say is.............. DRAG MY DADS *** OVER THERE!!! asap

TurboIIGuy

hahahah Rotarx7 call your dad now!!!!
He can make anything run!!!!!
And for Wackyracer..........................Damn actually I do want to junk it and go buy a trusty ol' civic but NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't not never not ever!!!!!!!
I am out here near el monte mang........
If anyone wants to lend a hand then come on down!!!
Peace

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

Wish I can but I will be out of town this weekend. if you still cant figure it out, let me know.

txredneckmedic

Any updates?

TurboIIGuy

stil nothing.
I have been trying for 2 days now.
I can't even get it to misfire, pop, or backfire...
It just cranks over.
I can hear all of the combustion chamers making compression the way they do.........I am very familiar with getting these motors to start, or so I thought, so I can usually ear a problem out when cranking it.
This one sounds healthy. As it always had.....
There has to be something so stoooooopid and small that I am missing but I have gone over everything already..............Rotarx7 was here, he helped, he saw my frustration and lack of uneccesary wires under the hood.
I didn't remove anything under the hood and I have gone over the few wires to make sure everything is connected.
Could my block not be grounded well????????????
Does that happen?????
It just crossed my mind..........I think I will try to start it in the morning after adding a ground wire to the block.............I dunno what else to do...............
Damned you wankel and the curse you named "rotary".........................
HaAHAHaHA
I need a nice little reliable 1996 honda civic LX with an auto tranny for a daily driver and a hot little Lotus for my fun car.....................Yes..........That will do nicely......I saw a lotus tonight out on Sunset Blvd in Hollywood when I was driving back with some friends...........it was soo Ugly Hott...........hahaahh
I want one.

willkill12a

spark timing and fuel dude take it back to the basics if that dont work maybee just maybee your cat or exhuast is clogged.

TurboIIGuy

Yeah it always goes back to the basics but thats where I have been for the past 2 days..........The basics..
My header is not currently connected to my exhaust as I stated in the first post so clogging is not a problem. Not to mention it's not possible, I have a complete Racing beat exhaust......The only cats under my car are the neighbors.......Maybe I'll run one over one day.......

TurboIIGuy

Still nothing!!!!!!!!!!
Someone help!!!!!!!

aussiesmg

iTrader: (1)

Have you checked the the wires are actually getting spark, take one off and hold it to the bock while the engine is being cranked it should arc to the engine. I know you probably thought of this but it eliminates spark as a problem

lumberjk3

did you have the main pulley off when you had the motor out? if so, make sure its on the right way or your timing could be way off.

TurboIIGuy

AS I stated clearly n my first post..........."I never removed the distributor or coils.
Yes the wires are getting spark. I removed them all and connected plugs and sat them on the fender while I cranked it and they all spark nicely."

To answer the question of wether or not I checked to see if I am getting spark or not..
And no I did not remove the main pulley at anytime but that wouldn't matter since the Dizzy was never pulled out either......

TurboIIGuy

okay So I removed the few wires that were plugged in and cleaned them and reinstalled them.
The only wires are the ones on the side of the block near the oil filter. My water to oil cooler had been leaking so they were all oily. I finally replaced the seals.
So I wired everything back up and its been 2 days since the last time I tried to fire it.
I also removed the plugs and cleaned them and then reinstalled th eplugs.
I tried to fire it and now it at least has some smoke coming out of the headers........I think this is a good thing since the last few days while cranking it nothing would happen.
Ohh.....I also wired an additional ground wire from the battery to the rotor housing...........I wonder if this has anything to do with it all????
SO my battery is weak now and I am going to take it to autozone or something to recharge it..........I think it maybe on the virge of starting now............
SO WTF????
If it does start then what was the problem????
Well I don't really care so long as it starts but, we'll see what happens with a fresher battery......
I'll keep this thread posted....

TurboIIGuy

so the battery is recharged and now drained again from trying to start it........Yes...Trying but not actually getting it to......
It still won't fire.........WTF???

TurboIIGuy

What is up with this thing????
I have started up rotary motors before that were in an actuall flood.......like submerged in water......
I have started up motors that we brought home from the junkyard........
Why can't I get this one going????????
I had a thought that maybe the motor itself was not getting a good ground and that when I test the spark plugs by connecting one to a wire and resting it on the strut tower to watch it spark that maybe its not doing that in the motor.
So I added a ground wire to the block and I tried but still nothing.......
I then rested a spark plug connected to a spark wire on the block itself to ground so i could see if it sparked and it does but why wont the motor fire???
I can't even get it to pop, misfire, backfire.......nothing.....
I already checked timing with a timing light while cranking the motor and it seems fine........
When I pull the plugs out to clean them and do a deflooding I spin the motor and it pushes air out very hard.......From my experience with motors its got good compression......But even still it was running perfect when I parked it..
My battery drained again so I am going to go buy a battery charger in themorning at sears with a 75 amp startetr assist.........
I am also going to remove my headers and spin the motor by hand and inspect the selas visually........Just to make sure something didnt fall in there and rip things up........God willing its all good still....
If anyone has any ideas feel free to throw them out there.......I am at the mercy of this motor and suggestions right now.....
Thanx..........

TurboIIGuy

okay. So it obviously wasn't making compression..........easy to tell when you spin the motor by hand......
That's why I have been deflooding it so many times.
But even deflodding gave me no improvement.
So today I am really pissed at this car and I will celebrate my independance from the rotary today DAMMIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SO I went out and bought a battery charger with starter assist at Sears today.
I used a remote starter switch and I spun the motor while I slowly poured a quart of oil in through the carb.......I am tired and in pain from removing the plugs over and over again.
It is finally making some compression..........finally......After a full quart......
SO now its smoking but it still won't actually fire up.......Still working at it though......
I am going to miss all the partying today but it will be worth it if I can go for a cruise tonight........

Aviator 902S

Do let us know when you get this beast started and what worked for you. It seems we're all stumped on this one, and now we just have to know...

northwoods

Did you ground the engine? You may have spark if you ground to body, but no ground to engine if you didn't strap the negative lead back to the block.

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

hmmmmm. how does 7am on Saturday sounds like. Im free before 8AM.

aussiesmg

iTrader: (1)

Have youchecked you are getting fuel to the carb, remove the incoming fuel line and crack, fuel should pour out, I know its obvious but just trying to give you ideas.

Read as (Damned if I know)

TurboIIGuy

Yes I think I posted in one of my hits on this already that I already grounded the block down.
I had the same thought cross my mind.

Yes....As I stated in an earlier post I have started motors with no fuel before just on starting fluid.....So I would at least expect to get a misfire or pop if nothing else. But to answer the question, yes I am getting fuel, thats a positive.