Awwww the trials and tribulations of a nonmechanically inclined idiot....

My project? I'm putting a rotary in the back of my Volkswagen Karmann Ghia. Well, it's already in there actually. I've messed up something in the wiring of it and can't proceed to finish it off until I get that part fixed.

It a 86 13b with a Weber DCOE 45 carb and a distributor and coils off a 85.

Here is the problem.... I turn the key and engage the starter... engine fires right up.... as long as I hold the key there the motor purrs like a kitten, but when I let the key back into the on position it dies.

I'm pretty sure this is a eletric problem and not fuel.

What I would like to do is make sure I have the wiring right. So if someone could explain step by step in a simple, yet detailed way how it is supposed to be wired. If you haven't guessed wiring is not my strong suit...and trying to hook up Japanese wiring to German wiring makes it even more difficult... talk about a axis of evil...anyway...

Questions...

What wires should be hooked up to the + side of the coils?
- Side?

There are two sets of wires coming off of the two black things on the side of the distributor. A yellow with green stripe wire coming out of each and a black wire coming out of each.... Where do these go? (Coils?)

On the Alt you have the main wire hook up.... that goes striaght to the battery...right? I forget the colors, but where do the two other wires go?

Besdies hooking up the starter (which is hooked up and working... ) Is there anything else that needs to be wired up that I'm missing?

I know some of these questions must seem stupid, but it's not working the way I have it hooked up now and I want to make sure it's done right... thusly I am asking you. The car is not here where I am... so if you have questions I'll try to answer them, but I might have to wait until I go out to the car again. Any responses to this will be most appreciated as I really want to finish this project soon.

 

my mate had exactly the same troubles with his 626 with a 12a in it. in the end he found out it was the relay that powers up the coil, if that makes sense.

 

Errr... that could be a problem... since I don't have any idea what that relay is and I'm pretty sure I don't have it.... Can anyone tell me what this relay is and how it hooks up? Oh, and how much it costs....

 

sounds like u don't have +12v at the coils with the ignition in the "on" position.

do a search for the alt wiring. i think it's the bottom terminal marked "R" that actually has to have a switched +12v connected to it. my car's not here for me to look at. u should find pics on the wiring during ur search.

 

Well, like I said... With the test light hooked to the + side of the coil it comes on in both the start and on key positions... what the actual voltage is I have no idea.

I need to see if I have all the wiring hooked up correctly first...

 

Okay... a few questions...

On my ignitors I have two wires coming out of each... a yellow with green stripe and a black with white stripe. Which one of these two hooks up to the coils? And is it the + or - on the coil?

On the Alt you have the two smaller wires that come off.... I have a black wire with a gold stripe and a red wire with a green stripe. Does the red and green wire go to the idiot (me) light? Does the black and gold wire go to one of the two (which one please) wires coming off of each ignitor?

PLease. please take a look at this link which shows how I'm supposed to wire this up (this is what I have been going by and not having any luck) and tell me if you can make sense of it.

Am I supposed to splice together one of the wires coming of the ALT to the wires coming off the ignitors and then splice THAT into the power from the ignition and then run a wire off that to the coils??? Maybe I'm dumb, but this doesn't make sense..... and it sure looks ugly.

 

I wrote up the answers, but the forum ate the message. Stupid bad gateway error

I'll try this again. First for the alt wiring. The output wire goes to battery +. This should be fuesed. The '86 uses an 80 amp fuse for this (main).

The other two wires are a switched 12v source and the alt warning light. I am not familiar with the wire colors you are describing. Usually they are BW (black w/ white stripe) and WB (white w/ black stripe). Anyways the connector in the back of the alt should look like the letter 'T'. The top terminal (horizontal) gets a switch 12v source. This turns on/off the regulator. The bottom terminal (vertical) is for the alt warning light.

I'll get back in a second about the coils.

 

For the ignitors, there should be one that has a YG (yellow w/ green stripe) wire and a BY (black w/ yellow stripe). This is the trailing ignitor. Should be the one closest to the alternator. The YG wire goes to the - terminal of the trailing coil. The BY gets switched 12v power.

The leading ignitor should be similar. The only difference is the signal wire is YL (yellow w/ blue stripe). Connect the YL wire to the leading coil - terminal. This ignitor should also have a BY wire. This goes to switched 12v as well.

The both coil + terminals will get 12v switched. There is also a condensor on the side of the distributor (silver cylinder). This connects to the coil + as well.

So connect the YG and YL wires to their respective coils (- terminals). Run 12v switched (you can probably use the VW coil power wiring as long as it doesn't have resistors and such for points based ignition) to both coil + terminals, both BY ignitor wires, and the condensor. You could also use a relay. Power from battery--> fuse--> relay --> to coils/ignitors. You would then use a switched souce from your ignition to energize the relay.

Hope this helps.

Kent

 

Thanks, your post made a lot of sense. I'll try to hook it up as you stated tomorrow and see what happens.

 

So I headed out today to spend my 4th trying to get this thing running... Here is what happened...

I had a MSD 6A Ignition and two blaster coils laying around, so I hooked them up for the lead ignition.... carefully following the detailed instructions for doing so found here on the board. This went pretty easily.

I took all the wiring I had off and rewired everything again trying to follow what everyone has said on here. If I can remember correctly it went like so...

Main lead off the ALT directly to the Battery.
Red and green wire off the ALT ( I believe this is the lower wire in the plug) to the idiot light.
The Black wire with gold stripe off the ALT (believe this is the upper wire in the plug) spliced into the black with white stripe wire coming off the trailing ignitor.
12v Wire from the ignition switch also spliced in with the Black with white stripe wire coming off the trailing ignitor.
This connection of wires also has the thin red wire off the MSD spliced into it (for the switched power source the MSD needs) and a wire coming off all of it going to the + side of the trailing coil.
Yellow wire ( I forget if it had a green or blue stripe) coming off the trailing ignitor to the - side of the trailing coil.

Car fired up. Ran it for about a minute or two... it was running a little rough, but pretty strong. While running, I pulled the plug wire off the trailing coil to see if it was working... it wasn't... no spark when I held it to a ground and it didn't make the motor run any differently for having pulled it off.

Then I noticed the wire from the main lead from the ALT to Batt was smoking a bit. Touched it and it was very hot, as was the ALT itself. I shut everything down.

SO, what have I miss wired that made the ALT wire get so damn hot?
Why is my Trailing coil STILL not working? Also, I tried this with two different new coils and neither one would spark.... so I don't think the problem is the coil.

This is pretty frustrating.... though it was nice to hear the engine run for a few minutes... though I don't think the neighbors were too happy.... there is no exhaust after the header until I can make it down the road to the muffler shop.

Thoughts?

 

Oh...also.. just wanted to check something hear...

With the ignition ON I took a test light and tested both sides of the trailing coil. Both side ( + and -) made the test light work. Should that be that way? I would think that it would only work on the + side... but, maybe thats why I'm bad at eletrical stuff.

 

Good to hear you got it running. Yes, both sides of the coil will see 12v when not cranking/running. What happens is the - side is just floating (no voltage). Both sides need to see the same voltage because no current is floing (volatge drop is related to resistance and current, so no current or no resistance equals no voltage drop). The ignitor, when going to fire, pulls the - terminal to ground. Current begins to flow charging the coil. Once the ignitor stops the charging, the field of the coil collapses and creates the spark.

Double check the wiring on the trailing ignitor. Both ignitor terminals should see 12v as well with the key on, engine not running. If the wiring checks out, then it is probably the ignitor that is bad. You can get the used for like $15 or so. It wouldn't hurt to run without it. It does almost nothing for power. It mainly helps emissions.

There must be a short if the alt and alt wiring is getting hot like that. You connected to the battery +, right? You should try to fuse that wire so you don't damage anything (80 amp will do). Does the engine have a good ground? The alt gets grounded through its body. Is there a diagram on the alt? Should have a diagram of the connector with the letters L and R on it. The R gets the 12V switched, the L is for the warning light. It should be like I said, though.

 

So if I check and the ignitor is bad I can take it off and try wiring it up directly?If that is the case which wires go where on the coil? I'm guessing the green wire to the - side and red to the others?

I do have the main wire off the ALT going to the + side of the battery. I'm pretty sure I have the other two wires hooked up right.... the idiot light is working... light comes on with the key in on position and after engine has started it goes off after a second or two.... so I have to guess that I have the other wire going to the right spot. There is no digram that I can see on the ALT, but I'll check again tomorrow... it is new. The Battery was a little low on juice when this happened... maybe that was the problem... I'll also check my main ground tomorrow and see if it clears up the problem.

All of this and I still have to run 20 feet of 1 and 1/4 copper tubing for the cooling this week!

 

What I meant is that you don't need trailing ignition at all. The trailing is more of an emissions thing. So you can remove the trailing coil, ignitor, and wiring and run leading only. Or you can just replace the trailing ignitor (assuming the wiring is fine) with a good used one and keep the trailing ignition.

So it is a new alt? Is it for an RX-7 then? '86? The wiring sounds right if that is the case. Maybe the alt is defective. You can pull it off and have it tested to be sure. Since it is new, it is probably under warrenty.

If the alt isn't bad, there must be a large short somewhere causing that drain. Check the alt output wire and battery cables as first suspects.

 

Ahhhh, I see. Well, I have one spare ignitor... I'll try to put that on and see what happens... if it doesn't work I'll try to find someone on here who has one. Tomorrow when I do the coolant lines I'll check the wiring and take the ALT somewhere to be checked... though the parts stores around here are not that great... wish I could find a good speed shop somewhere. Thanks again for all the quick answers... I dunno where I'd be without them. I had a friend come out there with me to take a look at it... he is a diesel mechanic...haha... he took one look at the engine and said "I have no idea." lol

 

No problem. I'll love to see what it is like when it is done. Should be one fast VW.

Just a tip: Get some heatsink compound from Radio Shack or another electronic/computer store. Put a good coating on the back of the ignitor. This helps transfer heat away from it and will keep them working longer. Pull of the other ignitor, clean the back, and apply heatsink compound to it as well. The compound tends dry out over time and loses its effectiveness.