WHO WANTS 1ST GEN rAcK @ pInIoN STEERING?
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Mosport Raceway,Bowmanville,Ont.
Can you guys help me ? I need to know roughly how many kits are going to be needed, like is everyone on the forum with a 1st gen gonna want one? Or are other forums gonna hear about this through word of mouth, I dont have time to be involved with other forums. Just trying to get a ball park figure for the laser-cut Co. Or can anyone involved with or work at a fab. shop want to cut these out. I would just send you the CAD layout then I will bend them up my self with a brake.
FD > FB > FC
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,873
Likes: 3
From: Bothell, WA
well what I'd do, is make a few to start with and then fab them as you need to.
You can take this tim eto see if someone else would be willing to help you fab them.
I know I will be wanting one, but I want to hear others feadback once they have installed it.
You can take this tim eto see if someone else would be willing to help you fab them.
I know I will be wanting one, but I want to hear others feadback once they have installed it.
Got some screws loose!
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 313
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From: Somewhere in Canada
I posted a link to this thread on the V8RX7 forum. There are some guys interested but most are from somewhere south of our border J. If you can come up with a ballpark price range I bet you would get a more decisive answer.
Toughguy
Toughguy
Well, I would be with hornbm on this, but most fab shops like the one he would be using usually require some sort of minumum order to make it worth their while. Obviously this varys greatly from shop to shop but in most cases its more than just 5 or some small number. I guess you'll have to find out how many you'll have to get made and then let us know to see if you can get x number of people in on teh deal. If that makes any sense....
Any idea on how much you'll be charging for the whole kit? reguardless I'm in for one.
I don't think *everyone* will want one as some people here simply use their FB as a daily driver and aren't really interested in modding it, but its pretty safe to assume that the majority of us will want one. Eventually the word will get out and more people will want them. You might find yourself to be quite busy making these
Any idea on how much you'll be charging for the whole kit? reguardless I'm in for one.
I don't think *everyone* will want one as some people here simply use their FB as a daily driver and aren't really interested in modding it, but its pretty safe to assume that the majority of us will want one. Eventually the word will get out and more people will want them. You might find yourself to be quite busy making these
FD > FB > FC
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,873
Likes: 3
From: Bothell, WA
yeah I'm just remembering about the reverse indiglow guages for 79-83 that everybody wanted and swore they would buy, and nobody bought them.
Thats why I think it would be good to make a small number to start with. Once they start selling, you then go fab a shitload more of them up.
Joliver, just dont want ya to go broke doing this lol.
Thats why I think it would be good to make a small number to start with. Once they start selling, you then go fab a shitload more of them up.
Joliver, just dont want ya to go broke doing this lol.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Mosport Raceway,Bowmanville,Ont.
Wow thanx for the feedback guys. I dont think there will be any bugs to work as it is a simple setup and I am way to familiar with VW stuff, so no if ands or buts about it this WILL work beautifully. I promise!!!!! I am going to make 4 to start and go from there. Im really not in this for the money, I would be happy if I made enough profit after selling 50 or so to be able to buy and have professionally tuned Haltech E6K. Used would even be fine.
Can some of the Ontario, canada guys on this board test drive your car with the rack and pinion and post feedback on this thread? I'd like to read what others have to say. I'd like to buy one too! What year Golf rack is it and are replacement parts pleantiful?
Driving it on Mosport would be ideal!
Thanks J Oliver for R&Ding this modification!
Driving it on Mosport would be ideal!
Thanks J Oliver for R&Ding this modification!
Got some screws loose!
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 313
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From: Somewhere in Canada
Thanks for the heads up hornbm but you haven't "burt" my bubble. I can make a 5.0 fit I can sure as hell make a R & P fit.
Out of curiosity, what are you basing your opinion on? Do you have a 5.0 RX7 tucked away somewhere? Maybe I'm missing something in my measurements? By all means enlighten me if you can.
Toughguy
P.S.- Hey Brad, you trust me to test it out for you?
Out of curiosity, what are you basing your opinion on? Do you have a 5.0 RX7 tucked away somewhere? Maybe I'm missing something in my measurements? By all means enlighten me if you can.
Toughguy
P.S.- Hey Brad, you trust me to test it out for you?
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Mosport Raceway,Bowmanville,Ont.
Thats the price I was thinking $200 tops, no more, but I will not be able to supply the VW rack for that. Im thinking it will include:
Rack bracket
All hardware to hold rack to bracket
steering colum brace and bearing
Install instuctions and proceedures
It seems no one wants to mod. their own old box in order to make the colum bearing support, soooooooo, I will have to come up with a cost effective way to do this for you to sell as part of the kit. I would like best to just sell the made bracket with instructions on how to do what I have done at home. Its really not that hard or time consuming to accomplish and we all will have rack and pinion much faster I would say. If this is not what you guys want then I will have to come up with a simple colum bearing.
Rack bracket
All hardware to hold rack to bracket
steering colum brace and bearing
Install instuctions and proceedures
It seems no one wants to mod. their own old box in order to make the colum bearing support, soooooooo, I will have to come up with a cost effective way to do this for you to sell as part of the kit. I would like best to just sell the made bracket with instructions on how to do what I have done at home. Its really not that hard or time consuming to accomplish and we all will have rack and pinion much faster I would say. If this is not what you guys want then I will have to come up with a simple colum bearing.
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 7,855
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From: Behind a workbench, repairing FC Electronics.
*Raises Hand* DING! Question...
Okay... How much does the old box, linkage, and all related bullshit weigh?
How much does the Rack, bracket, and all related bullshit weigh?
Since the column is kept, that doesn't count. Likewise with the outer tie rod ends.
Basically, what's the estimated weight gain of the swap?
I'd assume the box and rack are almost comparable in weight, give or take a few pounds... Especially since the box is full of oil. What's the bracket weigh? The good thing is all the weight is added down low, plus it may add to chasis rigidity.
Also, whats the bracket made of? I know there's a whole bunch of grades of aluminium and steel.
For the column bearing, on the cage of the bearing you cut out of the box, there should be a number or something... Most bearings can be outsourced. Perhaps a shop that specializes in rebuilding steering components, transmissions, or differentials will be able to help. The old steering box can be quite pricey to those who need it for racing classes and whatnot, so many people may not want to cut it up. Perhaps add a provision for a grease fitting.
Oh yeah... Where do all the universal joints and **** come from?
How bout when you need to get it aligned? I assume the thread pitch for the rack ends/inner tie rods and outer tie rods will be off. If people are getting their own racks, what outer tie rods are we going to use?
How much does the Rack, bracket, and all related bullshit weigh?
Since the column is kept, that doesn't count. Likewise with the outer tie rod ends.
Basically, what's the estimated weight gain of the swap?
I'd assume the box and rack are almost comparable in weight, give or take a few pounds... Especially since the box is full of oil. What's the bracket weigh? The good thing is all the weight is added down low, plus it may add to chasis rigidity.
Also, whats the bracket made of? I know there's a whole bunch of grades of aluminium and steel.
For the column bearing, on the cage of the bearing you cut out of the box, there should be a number or something... Most bearings can be outsourced. Perhaps a shop that specializes in rebuilding steering components, transmissions, or differentials will be able to help. The old steering box can be quite pricey to those who need it for racing classes and whatnot, so many people may not want to cut it up. Perhaps add a provision for a grease fitting.
Oh yeah... Where do all the universal joints and **** come from?
How bout when you need to get it aligned? I assume the thread pitch for the rack ends/inner tie rods and outer tie rods will be off. If people are getting their own racks, what outer tie rods are we going to use?
Last edited by Pele; Apr 28, 2003 at 10:11 PM.
ROTARY POWER
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 612
Likes: 1
From: N.CA
I am so in !! Let em know what the final price is and what pieces are needed that you aren't going to provide in your kit. Also where and how much the other parts cos that we have to source out our selves
thnx, very exciting
thnx, very exciting
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: N.N. VA.
Re: *Raises Hand* DING! Question...
Originally posted by Pele
Okay... How much does the old box, linkage, and all related bullshit weigh?
How much does the Rack, bracket, and all related bullshit weigh?
Since the column is kept, that doesn't count. Likewise with the outer tie rod ends.
Basically, what's the estimated weight gain of the swap?
I'd assume the box and rack are almost comparable in weight, give or take a few pounds... Especially since the box is full of oil. What's the bracket weigh? The good thing is all the weight is added down low, plus it may add to chasis rigidity.
Also, whats the bracket made of? I know there's a whole bunch of grades of aluminium and steel.
For the column bearing, on the cage of the bearing you cut out of the box, there should be a number or something... Most bearings can be outsourced. Perhaps a shop that specializes in rebuilding steering components, transmissions, or differentials will be able to help. The old steering box can be quite pricey to those who need it for racing classes and whatnot, so many people may not want to cut it up. Perhaps add a provision for a grease fitting.
Oh yeah... Where do all the universal joints and **** come from?
How bout when you need to get it aligned? I assume the thread pitch for the rack ends/inner tie rods and outer tie rods will be off. If people are getting their own racks, what outer tie rods are we going to use?
Okay... How much does the old box, linkage, and all related bullshit weigh?
How much does the Rack, bracket, and all related bullshit weigh?
Since the column is kept, that doesn't count. Likewise with the outer tie rod ends.
Basically, what's the estimated weight gain of the swap?
I'd assume the box and rack are almost comparable in weight, give or take a few pounds... Especially since the box is full of oil. What's the bracket weigh? The good thing is all the weight is added down low, plus it may add to chasis rigidity.
Also, whats the bracket made of? I know there's a whole bunch of grades of aluminium and steel.
For the column bearing, on the cage of the bearing you cut out of the box, there should be a number or something... Most bearings can be outsourced. Perhaps a shop that specializes in rebuilding steering components, transmissions, or differentials will be able to help. The old steering box can be quite pricey to those who need it for racing classes and whatnot, so many people may not want to cut it up. Perhaps add a provision for a grease fitting.
Oh yeah... Where do all the universal joints and **** come from?
How bout when you need to get it aligned? I assume the thread pitch for the rack ends/inner tie rods and outer tie rods will be off. If people are getting their own racks, what outer tie rods are we going to use?
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 448
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From: Mosport Raceway,Bowmanville,Ont.
People, People read from the very begining of the post way back to the first page, it is pretty riviting stuff I would say.
Bracket: mild steel
Colum bearing: stock, pack it once with grease and it will be fine for years, or use a sealed bearing and never look at it again.
Universal joints: Stock VW rabbit right off colum
Tie rods and ends: VW inner tie rod ends, VW tie rods, Mazda outer tie rod ends.
When steering is alinged it does not matter what moves the wheels. What matters is where the wheels are in relation to the ground and the chassis. One more thing. Stock RX7 specs has the tie rod pivot point far away from the center line of the car. With a rack installed this pivot point is much closer which will improve steering feel and much less bump-steer. Remember guys the 1st gen steering system was made up using parts sourced right from the B2200 truck, some of the worst steering possible. Anyway still a little more work to do. I am going to have to put this on someone elses car 1st because mine wont be running when the kit is finished. Anyone live close enough to Mosport Raceway and wants to be a test vehicle let me know.
Bracket: mild steel
Colum bearing: stock, pack it once with grease and it will be fine for years, or use a sealed bearing and never look at it again.
Universal joints: Stock VW rabbit right off colum
Tie rods and ends: VW inner tie rod ends, VW tie rods, Mazda outer tie rod ends.
When steering is alinged it does not matter what moves the wheels. What matters is where the wheels are in relation to the ground and the chassis. One more thing. Stock RX7 specs has the tie rod pivot point far away from the center line of the car. With a rack installed this pivot point is much closer which will improve steering feel and much less bump-steer. Remember guys the 1st gen steering system was made up using parts sourced right from the B2200 truck, some of the worst steering possible. Anyway still a little more work to do. I am going to have to put this on someone elses car 1st because mine wont be running when the kit is finished. Anyone live close enough to Mosport Raceway and wants to be a test vehicle let me know.
I know im going to want one, just not sure when. So put me down for the second batch.
I got a little confused with what was decided on the steering box. I am right in saying that, you decided not to modify the steering box and fabricate a mouting bracket insted?
I got a little confused with what was decided on the steering box. I am right in saying that, you decided not to modify the steering box and fabricate a mouting bracket insted?
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 448
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From: Mosport Raceway,Bowmanville,Ont.
Yes! For some unknown reason nobody wants to cut up their box, oh well more work 4me. Any way just got back from fab shop to get laser cutting costs and then I bought round stock to make a new bearing retainer for you lazy guys (just kidden)
and I also decided to go with a sealed needle bearing so I got 10 to start with.
Bearings: $9.13 each
Round stock mod. for bearing with bearing cap$25
Laser cutting $65-70 per bracket
Bracket material $17.36 per bracket
Hardware: $5.00
Painted bracket material $2.00/bracket
Nickle cadium plating*** nice stuff $30.00 each
labour: ?????????????? like I said Im not out to make a killing so I will let you know tonite or tommorow. It all came to $126.49 with a unpainted bracket and such. Well if this is a go I need 10 money orders asap once I decide on labour. Sound good yes or no? Get your trans fixed Adam!!! I got some thrashing to do. LoL!!
and I also decided to go with a sealed needle bearing so I got 10 to start with.
Bearings: $9.13 each
Round stock mod. for bearing with bearing cap$25
Laser cutting $65-70 per bracket
Bracket material $17.36 per bracket
Hardware: $5.00
Painted bracket material $2.00/bracket
Nickle cadium plating*** nice stuff $30.00 each
labour: ?????????????? like I said Im not out to make a killing so I will let you know tonite or tommorow. It all came to $126.49 with a unpainted bracket and such. Well if this is a go I need 10 money orders asap once I decide on labour. Sound good yes or no? Get your trans fixed Adam!!! I got some thrashing to do. LoL!!
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 448
Likes: 0
From: Mosport Raceway,Bowmanville,Ont.
Yes! For some unknown reason nobody wants to cut up their box, oh well more work 4me. Any way just got back from fab shop to get laser cutting costs and then I bought round stock to make a new bearing retainer for you lazy guys (just kidden)
and I also decided to go with a sealed needle bearing so I got 10 to start with.
Bearings: $9.13 each
Round stock mod. for bearing with bearing cap$25
Laser cutting $65-70 per bracket
Bracket material $17.36 per bracket
Hardware: $5.00
Painted bracket material $2.00/bracket
Nickle cadium plating*** nice stuff $30.00 each
labour: ?????????????? like I said Im not out to make a killing so I will let you know tonite or tommorow. It all came to $126.49 with a unpainted bracket and such. Well if this is a go I need 10 money orders asap once I decide on labour. Sound good yes or no? Get your trans fixed Adam!!! I got some thrashing to do. LoL!!
and I also decided to go with a sealed needle bearing so I got 10 to start with.
Bearings: $9.13 each
Round stock mod. for bearing with bearing cap$25
Laser cutting $65-70 per bracket
Bracket material $17.36 per bracket
Hardware: $5.00
Painted bracket material $2.00/bracket
Nickle cadium plating*** nice stuff $30.00 each
labour: ?????????????? like I said Im not out to make a killing so I will let you know tonite or tommorow. It all came to $126.49 with a unpainted bracket and such. Well if this is a go I need 10 money orders asap once I decide on labour. Sound good yes or no? Get your trans fixed Adam!!! I got some thrashing to do. LoL!!
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 448
Likes: 0
From: Mosport Raceway,Bowmanville,Ont.
Yes! For some unknown reason nobody wants to cut up their box, oh well more work 4me. Any way just got back from fab shop to get laser cutting costs and then I bought round stock to make a new bearing retainer for you lazy guys (just kidden)
and I also decided to go with a sealed needle bearing so I got 10 to start with.
Bearings: $9.13 each
Round stock mod. for bearing with bearing cap$25
Laser cutting $65-70 per bracket
Bracket material $17.36 per bracket
Hardware: $5.00
Painted bracket material $2.00/bracket
Nickle cadium plating*** nice stuff $30.00 each
labour: ?????????????? like I said Im not out to make a killing so I will let you know tonite or tommorow. It all came to $126.49 with a unpainted bracket and such. Well if this is a go I need 10 money orders asap once I decide on labour. Sound good yes or no? Get your trans fixed Adam!!! I got some thrashing to do. LoL!!
and I also decided to go with a sealed needle bearing so I got 10 to start with.
Bearings: $9.13 each
Round stock mod. for bearing with bearing cap$25
Laser cutting $65-70 per bracket
Bracket material $17.36 per bracket
Hardware: $5.00
Painted bracket material $2.00/bracket
Nickle cadium plating*** nice stuff $30.00 each
labour: ?????????????? like I said Im not out to make a killing so I will let you know tonite or tommorow. It all came to $126.49 with a unpainted bracket and such. Well if this is a go I need 10 money orders asap once I decide on labour. Sound good yes or no? Get your trans fixed Adam!!! I got some thrashing to do. LoL!!