Midwest 7's

iTrader: (4)

i want some sticky rubber to get around town on, i mean sticky. i only drive 10K every 3 years in the rx so i can be a bit frivolous. i was looking at the toyo proxes RA-1's but they are a bit pricey i think, $160 a tire. was wondering if anybody could point me in the right direction, i know little about tires.
205/60/R14 se wheels

Midwest 7's

iTrader: (4)

oh yea, did i mention, sticky!!!!!!!!!!!

DAVID GRIMES

I use Cooper Cobra's. They're rated well for treadwear, traction, and temperature... they look good and they won't break your *****. Sticky ? They hook up for me really well ( ported 13B w/ Mikuni, etc. ) I get the barks in 3 gears, but just barely. They're stuck. Best of all, they're made in America. I'm running 225 and 205 50/15's.

Max7

I'm on my 2nd set of RA-1's, they last me about 2 years a set. ran 16k on the last ones.
LOVE THEM! I've had Kuhmo V700's and Nitto Drag Radials, and really like the Toyo's best, when It comes time for another set, RA-1's it will be.

Blake

My favorite bang-for-the-buck tires are Falken Azenis Sports. The closest size to your setup is 195/60HR14s and they go for about $50 each. Don't worry about them being narrower...the nominal size is conservative and there is way more meat on the road that most 205 tires. Very stiff sidewalls and über sticky rubber, but suprisingly little noise and they do okay in the wet (when reasonably new). Not in the same class with true R-compound tires, but about as close as you can get without going deaf from rocks thrown up the the wheel wells.

Kentetsu

A long time ago, I used to do 1/4 mile paved circle track racing. We used Hoosiers (they don't get much stickier than that) but we modified them like this...

Mount them on the rims, then inflate to about 60 psi. Soak a bunch of rags in fuel oil (deisel) and wrap them around the tires so that they are completely covered. Then lay them out in the sun for a couple of days making sure that the rags stay soaked.

Oh man, will those ever be sticky!!! Of course, they'll only last for about a hundred miles of hard driving....

Alex-7

Adam, you should sell your tires to some drifter kid to finance your upgrade. Seeing *** how yours are like ten years old and hard as nails they are the perfect beginer drift compuund (as you know )



--Alex

Pedestrian X

Tires are ones of those things that you do get what you pay for. Toyo does make very quality tires.

jays83gsl

Alex, we just ask the tire stores for the ones that come off of customer's wheels. They're usually free, and good for slinging ourselves into a telephone pole.

On a side note, I just learned that Toyo is Mazda O_O

Blake

While I don't disagree, I will say that part of what you are paying for include "no-compromises" (traction and longevity and low noise and wet weather performance and good track manners and...). Trading off longevity or other attributes lets you get far more bang-for-the-buck. Also, don't forget you are paying for the branding, including the marketing campaigns. Every year at the SEMA Show in Las Vegas, Bridgestone sponsors the media center, gives me a free piece of luggage, a leather covered note pad, buys me lunch and even a few "happy hour" drinks. Who pays for the largess? The consumer, of course. Falken just gives me a credential lanyard worth pennies.

There is also another factor that I don't think consumers understand. In economics, there is something called "price discrimination". This isn't gouging minorities, as some might infer by the name, but maximizing profits by setting different prices to match-up better with supply and demand curves of different segments of the population. An example is a senior citizen discount at the movies. They don't do it to be nice, but to make more money. To give you an example, young couples out on a date, or married folks getting away from their kids for a night on the town, have a very inelastic demand curve, meaning you can raise the price a buck or two and although you will lose some customers the remaining ones more than make up for it through the higher prices. More profit but you end up with excess capacity (vacant seats). So, you set a different price for seniors, who have a much more elastic demand curve. This means when the price goes up a buck or two, they just stop coming. Give them a special deal and they come in flocks. This is pure profit, because the seats were vacant to begin with. This is just an example and barely scratches the surface. Price discrimination is regulated because otherwise there would be a hundred prices to get into a movie and you'd have to apply to get the "right" price for your demographic group. Americans also have a sense of fairness that dictates one price for all, but "charity" (discounts) to certain groups is considered honorable (though, as I said, it's really about profit). Elsewhere in the world, negotiating is the means to discriminate on price -- everyone gets a unique price that reflects what it's worth to them alone.

The way some companies (e.g. tire manufacturers) get around the fairness issue is to create brands that target certain demographics. A Porsche owner, for example, would never in a million years buy a Falken tire; he will spend 5-times more on the "right" tire for him (as determined by the marketing). Certainly, the tires he chooses will have features that appeal to him, like being quiet enough to talk on his cell phone while driving, soft enough sidewalls so he won't spill his latte, and a cool tread pattern. But, part of the price is branding it to make it exclusive. You see this all the time in the automotive world. It cost too much to set up a factory for all the sub-brands so they just re-brand a single product and make only superficial changes. GAB R1 = KYB AGX; TOYO RA-1 = Nitto 555R (with different tread pattern and more tread depth).

I would also point out, even when paying more gets you more, sometimes the price of that little performance increase is very high relative to the benefits. In economic terms, this is called diminishing returns. Even if the premium brand, ultra-high performance tires the Porsche guy buys are better in every respect, you can get 90% of the performance for a fraction of the cost! Sounds like a great trade-off to me.

In the final analysis, while you do get what you pay for...(1) you may be paying for attributes that don't matter as much to you, (2) you may be paying for the brand more than the performance, (3) you may be segmenting yourself so that you pay a premium over other people who are more price sensitive, and (4) you may be paying a huge premium for the last fraction of performance that might not be worth the added cost (this is totally up to you to decide, of course). In my experience, some brands/models of tires are damn fine bargains due to these issues and one of my favorites is the Falken Azenis Sport. For the price (~$50 ea) they cannot be beat by anything under $120 per, IMHO, so even if you have to buy them twice as often, you still come out ahead.

One last note: keep in mind that the highest performance tire essentially cost the same to make as the cheapest, lowest-performance tire. It's just a polymer cocktail of NR (Natural Rubber), NBR (Acrylonitrile gum rubber), Butyle (polyisobutylene), SBR (styrene butadiene), HAF (Carbon Black) and some nylon reinforcement ("belts"). Some of the cost is R&D, of course, but as a fixed cost it is absorbed over the production run of a successful product. The price you pay is the result of the consumer demand curve and the marketing to increase the perceived value of the product. It's not a conspiracy; just capitalism at it's finest. You either choose to be a good little automaton and don't buck your demographic, or you can think outside the box and find a bargain by saying "hey, that cheap tire marketed to kids is actually a better value that what the tire the manufacturer is hawking to my demographic". Of course, it can be a double-edge sword as well...the tire may be cheap and marketed to kids because they don't actually care about performance and the brand is just "phat, yo!" (e.g. every Nitto but the 555R). This is why you have to use your brain and do your homework. All I'm saying is, keep an open mind because sometimes you can find a bargain.

Sorry for the economics lecture, but I have to justify that sheepskin I paid so much money to acquire! It was not intended as a rant, so don't take it as such. I just think people are too easily trained to limit their brands of preference in the interest of those that wish to sell us something. I'm all for a totally free economy, but one of the tenants of Capitalism is "perfect information", meaning consumers are aware of everything including attempts to seduce them with clever marketing gimmicks. All I advocate is consumer awareness.

hammmy

That's one hell of a fine post.

Driftlanta

I`ll bet alex-7 deep down wishes he could be a bad *** drifter. Oh yeah Toyo RA-1 is a really good tire and you can get it cheaper at edgeracing.com

RotaryAXer

iTrader: (4)

Kumho Ecsta V700: 195/55/14 $106 way stickier than you need.

Hankook Ventus RSS Z211: 185/55/14 available in three compounds all stickier than you need.

Falkens as mentioned also.

Midwest 7's

iTrader: (4)

thanks rotaryaxer, that was what i was looking for. do they look good? can you give me a link the $106 kumho's you speak of? i would like to see a pic. the proxes RA-1's look SICK!

Max7

Mmmmmm........ sick

Midwest 7's

iTrader: (4)

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[SIZE=7]SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jays83gsl

Them's some big *** tires! 17s?!

Max7

Less sidewall to flex in them turns

RotaryAXer

iTrader: (4)

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....del=ECSTA+V700

Click sizes & pricing to see the prices...duh.

mortenf

How did you figure that out? True that Mazda was called Toyo Kogyo Cork Company, but that was waaay back. They then started to produce small three wheel trucks, and named the brand Mazda. Where have you heard this info?

And to not be a complete offtopic idiot, i use Fulda Extremos, 205/45/-16`s. Really good tire!

Blake

Toyo Tire & Rubber Co., Ltd. of Osaka, Japan has no special connection to Mazda Motor Company of Hiroshima, Japan (formerly known as Toyo Kogyo Co., Ltd. and Toyo Cork Kogyo before that), that I am aware of. I may be mistaken, but I believe "Toyo" translates to "Orient" and "Kogyo" is "Industry". So, one is the Orient Tire & Rubber Company and the other was formerly the Orient Industry Company. Sounds like pretty genaric names to me and saying they are related based on that is like saying General Motors owns General Foods. Anyway, I would urge people to be more careful before speculating on such things. This is how stupid rumors get started and purpetuated...like that "synthetics oils do not burn" or that rotary engines are two-stroke or....

hammmy

...or that it's pretty useless to overpay for oil that's getting burned anyway--wait, that's not a rumor. Anyhoo, the SA22C email list is currently chattering about tires, and Sumitomos seemed to be favored for everyday use of those polled so far. The usual suspects like Kumho's 712s and HP-4s are getting honorable mention as well.

Midwest 7's

iTrader: (4)

well, i think i have narrowed it down to either the Falken Azenis RS or the Proxis Tpt because i cant find the RA-1's in the size i need. found a set of 83 limited wheels so will be running 195/60 R14 now. whats up with the 200 treadwear on the falkens? how many miles have you guys running these got out of them? $50 a tire is cheap, 60 for the toyo proxis but i dont know if they will be sticky enough.

Midwest 7's

iTrader: (4)

well, i think i have narrowed it down to either the Falken Azenis RS or the Proxis Tpt because i cant find the RA-1's in the size i need. found a set of 83 limited wheels so will be running 195/60 R14 now. whats up with the 200 treadwear on the falkens? how many miles have you guys running these got out of them? $50 a tire is cheap, 60 for the toyo proxis but i dont know if they will be sticky enough.

Max7

I had the same problem trying to find the RA-1's in the 16's I wanted so ended up going for the 17's. Sometimes change is a good thing, of course its and expensive thing to find out you got the wrong/right thing sometimes.