where to get a motor
12-29-06, 11:17 PM
#5
FB+FC=F-ME
You can "get" a 12A engine anywhere......
What kind of engine are we talking about?.....There are lots of ways to get a 12A up to 200-300HP,but every last one of them is a different animal,with different costs and different headaches.
Since the VAST majority of 12A's are 100HP carbed,N/A units your gonna have to either build,or pay someone to build you,a perfomance system to go with the basic engine.Thats gonna mean porting,carb/EFI,exhaust,ignition,turbo?... and all the supporting mods and costs that go along with getting a 12A up to those power numbers.
Unless you find a private seller with a turnkey setup, that they are selling off.
What kind of engine are we talking about?.....There are lots of ways to get a 12A up to 200-300HP,but every last one of them is a different animal,with different costs and different headaches.
Since the VAST majority of 12A's are 100HP carbed,N/A units your gonna have to either build,or pay someone to build you,a perfomance system to go with the basic engine.Thats gonna mean porting,carb/EFI,exhaust,ignition,turbo?... and all the supporting mods and costs that go along with getting a 12A up to those power numbers.
Unless you find a private seller with a turnkey setup, that they are selling off.
12-29-06, 11:20 PM
#6
Plan on going pp or turbo? That's the only way you will get 300 hp out of a 12A. If 300 hp was as simple as ordering an engine, we'd all be running 12s in the 1/4 mile.
Skimming through some of your other posts, you seem a bit lost. Might I suggest spending some more time reading and learning about not only the rotary, but also swaps, perfomance and upgrades.
Skimming through some of your other posts, you seem a bit lost. Might I suggest spending some more time reading and learning about not only the rotary, but also swaps, perfomance and upgrades.
12-29-06, 11:26 PM
#7
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i want it to be streetable so isn't pp a little too much and i would do the work myself so i was thinking of turbo but how would i switch ovewr to efi when i'm carbed?
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12-29-06, 11:28 PM
#8
Originally Posted by mazdaman4
i'm looking for a 12a for my 85 gs with aroiund 200 to 300 horsepower where would be my best option to find one.
www.rotaryracing.com you will be able to see costs for a turn-key motor
www.rebelloracing.com you would have to call and see if they still offer.
www.mazdatrix.com Probably have to call to see pricing on a build.
12-29-06, 11:38 PM
#9
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yeah i checked it out and the prices r pretty steep. The motor i have now is getting bad compression and has 196,000 miles on it so i dont know whether to pull it apart and see what it needs or to just get a motor that works good anyways. But if i pulled it apart there is things i could do like porting, would that be hard? i would have to get a new carb and intake or go efi but i dont know what switching to efi involves cause if i went to efi i would do a turbo setup.
12-30-06, 12:42 AM
#11
With the questions you are asking, it's apparent to me that you are over your head in both lack of knowledge and finances for what you hope to accomplish.
With nearly 200k on on your engine, it will most likely need new housings and and the irons will need either lapped or replaced. If you tear the engine down, it will not be accepted as a core by most of the major rebuilders. If you choose to rebuild and port it your self, you will spend 1k minimum by the time you by a full rebuild kit and tools needed.
Depending on porting and the quality of your rebuild, you will be in the 150-225 hp range, providing you add the supporting mods needed. If you wish to learn about engine building and porting, head over to NoPistons.com to thier Engine Building and Porting subforum.
By the time you've built and ported the engine and installed the supporting mods, you will be around 2k in total costs, providing you can do all of the work yourself and find some deals on carb/intake and an entire exhaust system. Adding an efi system can add another 750-1500+, less what you would spend on carb and intake upgrades. Very few members go efi on the 12A as it's cheaper to do a 2nd gen 13B swap. Fwiw, if you go with a 2nd gen 6-port NA engine, you will most likely not see 200 rwhp.
Once you approach the 200 hp level, the suspension and braking systems will need a full upgrade to handle doubling the stock hp. That can easily add another 1-1.5k in parts alone, not including lsd, tires and wheels.
While many of us want high hp upgrades, we need to be realistic about what we can accomplish and how much it really costs. The last line in my sig is a link to my project. I have over 6k in it so far and plan on doing a TII swap this winter. I really would like to see 400 hp in street tune, but realisticly, it's going to cost me another 4k minimum to do it right. I have the engine core and associated parts already and do all of my own work. If I sent it out for a shop to do the build and install, it would double the price of my projected costs.
My suggestion is to sit down and decide what you want the car to do and what you will be using it for, i.e., drag racing, autocross, roadracing, DD. Then decide on hp/performance goals and a budget. Keep in mind that high hp isn't simply a matter of building an engine, it's building the car as a total package to be able to use it. 300 hp is a total waste if the car still has a pegleg rearend, stock clutch/tranny, stock brakes and suspension. It can also be quite dangerous if you can't apply the power to the ground, stop the car or maneuver when needed.
With nearly 200k on on your engine, it will most likely need new housings and and the irons will need either lapped or replaced. If you tear the engine down, it will not be accepted as a core by most of the major rebuilders. If you choose to rebuild and port it your self, you will spend 1k minimum by the time you by a full rebuild kit and tools needed.
Depending on porting and the quality of your rebuild, you will be in the 150-225 hp range, providing you add the supporting mods needed. If you wish to learn about engine building and porting, head over to NoPistons.com to thier Engine Building and Porting subforum.
By the time you've built and ported the engine and installed the supporting mods, you will be around 2k in total costs, providing you can do all of the work yourself and find some deals on carb/intake and an entire exhaust system. Adding an efi system can add another 750-1500+, less what you would spend on carb and intake upgrades. Very few members go efi on the 12A as it's cheaper to do a 2nd gen 13B swap. Fwiw, if you go with a 2nd gen 6-port NA engine, you will most likely not see 200 rwhp.
Once you approach the 200 hp level, the suspension and braking systems will need a full upgrade to handle doubling the stock hp. That can easily add another 1-1.5k in parts alone, not including lsd, tires and wheels.
While many of us want high hp upgrades, we need to be realistic about what we can accomplish and how much it really costs. The last line in my sig is a link to my project. I have over 6k in it so far and plan on doing a TII swap this winter. I really would like to see 400 hp in street tune, but realisticly, it's going to cost me another 4k minimum to do it right. I have the engine core and associated parts already and do all of my own work. If I sent it out for a shop to do the build and install, it would double the price of my projected costs.
My suggestion is to sit down and decide what you want the car to do and what you will be using it for, i.e., drag racing, autocross, roadracing, DD. Then decide on hp/performance goals and a budget. Keep in mind that high hp isn't simply a matter of building an engine, it's building the car as a total package to be able to use it. 300 hp is a total waste if the car still has a pegleg rearend, stock clutch/tranny, stock brakes and suspension. It can also be quite dangerous if you can't apply the power to the ground, stop the car or maneuver when needed.
12-30-06, 08:34 PM
#13
FB+FC=F-ME
Just my humble opinion here,but.....
If you lack the knowledge and ability to do the work yourself,then you dont have the right to complain about the high costs of someone else building it for you!
Not that there arent places that might be gouging their customers,because there probably are.
But the fact remains that building a reliable,effective, 300HP 12A is expensive.Especially since the 12A is smaller and not factory turbo ready.(in the USA)
My professionally built,warranteed and reliable 300HP 13BT cost 4500 bucks from Mazdatrix......and that was JUST the block.It may have been expensive,but I have almost 6 years and 50K miles on it,and she still runs like DAY 1.If you cheap out,run a junkyard engine,or cant control your urge to tweek with the boost,expect to see some heartache and setbacks.
I still had to assemble the rest of the powertrain,have a turbo built,intercooler,plumbing,switch to EFI fuel delivery,ignition,exhaust system,tranny/clutch,cooling,ect.....not to mention the suspension,brakes,wheels and tires to handle the power effectively.It was expensive and took a lot of time........and I did nearly all the work myself! Very little cost was paid out in labor,and Im still probably running around with $15K under the hood,after its all said and done....others have spent even more.
If you lack the knowledge and ability to do the work yourself,then you dont have the right to complain about the high costs of someone else building it for you!
Not that there arent places that might be gouging their customers,because there probably are.
But the fact remains that building a reliable,effective, 300HP 12A is expensive.Especially since the 12A is smaller and not factory turbo ready.(in the USA)
My professionally built,warranteed and reliable 300HP 13BT cost 4500 bucks from Mazdatrix......and that was JUST the block.It may have been expensive,but I have almost 6 years and 50K miles on it,and she still runs like DAY 1.If you cheap out,run a junkyard engine,or cant control your urge to tweek with the boost,expect to see some heartache and setbacks.
I still had to assemble the rest of the powertrain,have a turbo built,intercooler,plumbing,switch to EFI fuel delivery,ignition,exhaust system,tranny/clutch,cooling,ect.....not to mention the suspension,brakes,wheels and tires to handle the power effectively.It was expensive and took a lot of time........and I did nearly all the work myself! Very little cost was paid out in labor,and Im still probably running around with $15K under the hood,after its all said and done....others have spent even more.
12-30-06, 09:11 PM
#15
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thats another aspect of paying for a rebuild is you can chance not doing it right yourself or pay for a top notch motor with a warrenty from a reputible builder. its cheaper to do it right the first time then to do it twice
12-30-06, 09:15 PM
#16
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dont let anyone spoil those visions in your head man. "Theres nothing to it but to do it" check out trochoids links and the faqs pages, (all of them). study buy what you need a little at a time learn what you can, then just make it happen.
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