Project84

I was browsing through the tech archive and I saw a thread about using water instead of ATF to decarbon a rotor motor. Then I remembered that our B-52's used to inject water down the intakes to boost power. Thats how they take off with heavy loads. You first gen guys see where this is going? Its a cheaper way to gain a "turbo boost". The oxygen in H20 is combustable. The thread is old and they were all saying how they weren't sure what that extra hydrogen molecule was doing, but one guy disconnected a vacuum line and submerged it and let his engine suck up a whole liter of water(started at idle and had to rev to approx 4k to keep engine from drowning). His cats and muffler was glowing so I'm guessing too much hydrogen gets hot like Hiroshima. But a controlled injection, the right amount of water can be good. They say the 02 sensors pick up that extra oxygen and delivers a richer mixture and its all perpetual motion from there. So here is my plan. Get a set of window washer nozzles hooked up to my carb and put water in the washer reservoir. Then I can experiment with putting water in the front two ports,rear two, or all 4 ports of the carb. If anyone else tries this let me know how it works. They said they felt an instant difference in performance after cleaning with water, but I want to try it while diving to see what happens. I won't be able to try it until later this summer cause my car is in NJ and I have to tow it out here to South Dakota since I'm stationed here. If you break something, blow something or someone up, or burn something down, I am not responsible!!!!!!!!

Read the threads for more info and ideas I didn't read them all.

FB + AWDDSM

Are you talking about Water/Alky injection?

This is used by many turbo buick guys as an alternatitive to race fuel (or in conjunction with). By injecting the correct ammount, you reduce knock. Obviously, thats good for a turbo car with high boost. But this effectivly raises octane of the fuel - thats what octane is, a measure of knock-ability. I really think it won't do a NA rotary any good. Now on a TII...

But if you want to fool around with it, here's some links:
http://home.att.net/~stevemon/AlcoholInjMod.html
http://www.dawesdevices.com/water.html

Also, check out the Turbo Buick board (www.turbobuick.com I think). They have an entire board for just this. I for one am looking at putting it on my Talon.

Denny

This must be the reason why speed in the rain feels faster than speed in the dry! It is!

Of course speed at night feels faster than speed during the day....Maybe there's a hidden relationship?

Denny

Max7

Anyone else see the problem here?
I'm pretty sure the CARB is not controlled by the ECU
Thus how will the mechanical carb richen the mixture from the O2 sensor?

Most people who I've seen use water injection, use it on High Boost applications.

cletus

I thought what the water actually did was effectively raise the compression since water is an incompressible fluid.

jeremy

iTrader: (1)

it will cool the incoming air, thus lower detonation. this is important on turbo/supercharged applications in the case that the intercooler is not effecient enough or you are at a stand still and the intercooler becomes heatsoaked. there really shouldn't be enough water to effectively raise combustion. the problem with this in an na is that it is very hard to detonate anyway with our engines and bringing the temp on the intake charge down that much will hurt in ignition as it takes more to get it to ignite and the flame front to stay lit consistently. the same applies to higher octane gas.

Project84

If it cools the incoming air, that means more air, since cold air molecules can be packed tighter than warm air. More air means more fuel. More fuel means more bang, right? The O2 sensor statement was made by a guy with a 13B engine, so maybe that part won't work for a carb, but I'd still like to know if this could work. A few people have said that the water being flash burned into steam dissolves carbon with out fouling the plugs like ATF, and the engine runs better afterwards, but I wanted to know if it can give a performance boost. For all the money we put into cars, wouldn't it be ironic if we had overlooked something as cheap and abundant as water??

jeremy

iTrader: (1)

true cooler air=denser charge. but this will be almost insignificant in ours. it is the turbo that heats the air to the point that water after the turbo is used to cool it back down. as for i don't think the slight better density would outweigh the mixtures problem with ignition. you could try it and see though. everything probable is worth a shot. just make sure you dyno before and after so that we could see hard fact on an improvement just from the water injection.

Project84

You probably right, it will probably be insignificant to have water injection in a rotary engine, but using water to do a carbon cleansing may still work. I'll mess around with it when I get my car out here.

REVHED

It's not just the fact that it cools the air charge down. It acts like a high octane fuel in that it slows down the flame front in the combustion chamber. This is probably why this guy said his cats and muffler were glowing... some unburnt fuel was escaping into the exhaust and combusting.

LUV94RX7

iTrader: (3)

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/

If interested in water injection check them out. I have the 2s kit.

Ken, 58 years young
'94 white, base, pep, red leather,
mods: street port & polished stage II, 3mm Hurley racing seals, upgraded coolant seals,
AEM ECU(If they can ever deliver),
XS T04e single turbo kit,
SMIC (400+cu.in.),
Aquamist 2s water injection kit,
Pettit ss resonated MP,
Pettit ss cat-back,
RP Racing fuel pump,
1600cc injectors,
Profec B(15&20+psi),
3-bar Map Sensor,
Centerforce clutch,
under pulley kit(no air pump),
Pettit short shifter kit,
boost gauge,
LaBreck's bushings,
Evans Coolant
<http://nopistons.com/luv94rx7.html>

Project84

Ok, this is what I came up with since I had a day to think about it and talk about it with more people.
The water does increase the quality of the air in the intake A LITTLE, but as it burns, the oxygen and hydrogen, both very volatile elements, create higher exhaust pressure. This is good ONLY if you have a supercharger or turbocharger, as many of you have mentioned in your replies. What happens is that the exhuast pressure is driving the turbo charger turbines which induct more compressed air which creates more exhaust pressure and its a never ending cycle. Same for supercharger, on its belt driven, but you see how more exhaust =more intake? Carbuerator doesn't do this nearly as efficiently since it doesn't induct are as well. That is why B-52s could use water injection. More exhaust is more thrust, and the exhaust gases in a jet engine spins a turbine which is spinning the impeller fans at the front of the engine. Simple perpetual motion. Thanks for throwing all the ideas out there guys, I'm glad I joined this club, there is a lot of knowledge and intelligent people to talk to here

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

dAt'S cUz wE dOnE bEeN eDu-mA-kAtEd iN hI-sKoOlZ

wE aRe mOrE bEtTeR!

jeremy

iTrader: (1)

hahahahaha

mAd SkiLz yO. bling bling.

be patient young jedi. use the force wisely................