Is There a Point in Spending Money on a 12A?
09-20-14, 11:30 AM
#1
Is There a Point in Spending Money on a 12A?
Hi all,
I have been doing a bit of research planning on the next steps with my 82 FB.
My car has 66k miles and is basically all original, but I have some longer term goals for it over the next few years.
One item has been the engine/drivetrain. I have considered getting a decent condition 12A to tear apart and rebuild over the winter, but the more research I do I don't see the point in it.
The more obvious direction seems to be rebuilding a 6 port 13B and dropping that in with a new carb setup (weber, etc).
The swap is well documented... GSL-SE oil pan and front cover and modifying the mount... in summary. And most likely direct fire ignition with FC coils...
This way I am not spending $$ on a possible paperwight of a 12A (housing damage etc). Spending $1200 in parts to rebuild a dinosaur of an engine...
13B's can be found easier and most likely in a bit better shape. And if major parts need replacement, that can be organized.
Any feedback on this?
So far the only drawback I have found is driveability/tuning issues with carbs.
Going from a stock 12A to a Weber 13B must be night and day.
I have been doing a bit of research planning on the next steps with my 82 FB.
My car has 66k miles and is basically all original, but I have some longer term goals for it over the next few years.
One item has been the engine/drivetrain. I have considered getting a decent condition 12A to tear apart and rebuild over the winter, but the more research I do I don't see the point in it.
The more obvious direction seems to be rebuilding a 6 port 13B and dropping that in with a new carb setup (weber, etc).
The swap is well documented... GSL-SE oil pan and front cover and modifying the mount... in summary. And most likely direct fire ignition with FC coils...
This way I am not spending $$ on a possible paperwight of a 12A (housing damage etc). Spending $1200 in parts to rebuild a dinosaur of an engine...
13B's can be found easier and most likely in a bit better shape. And if major parts need replacement, that can be organized.
Any feedback on this?
So far the only drawback I have found is driveability/tuning issues with carbs.
Going from a stock 12A to a Weber 13B must be night and day.
09-20-14, 12:50 PM
#2
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Nothing wrong with a 12a at all, in fact you have more options with a 12a over a 6 port because of the standard 4-port setup with large primary ports. at 66k if it's been well maintained the housings are probably still in great shape. I have a 6 port 13b with a weber 50 DCO/SP on it and I'd rather it be a 4 port so I could do a standard bridgeport on it, but that's not going to stop me from doing it anyways.
09-20-14, 03:35 PM
#5
Lolicon*** of RX-7 World
I have a well maintained 12a right now and zero problems with the motor.
Rest of the car is another story but my 12a runs better then my 13b did and the 13b was fresh rebuild only 5k miles flooded and leaked oil like no ones business.
But it was a crappy rebuild that got put into it. When i found out an oil pressure plate almost fell off and the motor was barely tourqed together and they had reused 144k mile gaskets and was probably just running way to rich or timed wrong.
Ida know didnt know much back then miss my fc.
Rest of the car is another story but my 12a runs better then my 13b did and the 13b was fresh rebuild only 5k miles flooded and leaked oil like no ones business.
But it was a crappy rebuild that got put into it. When i found out an oil pressure plate almost fell off and the motor was barely tourqed together and they had reused 144k mile gaskets and was probably just running way to rich or timed wrong.
Ida know didnt know much back then miss my fc.
09-21-14, 12:55 PM
#6
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66k mile 12A should actually be really nice on the inside...
09-21-14, 01:13 PM
#7
I just tore down a 120k mile 12A the other day. It was really nice inside. The apex seals were down to 5.9mm - 6.2mm but all were intact. The missing chrome was more or less within spec of 1/8" wide by 2 inches long just at the bottom edge of one housing. The other was even better.
Totally worth spending money on it to get it running again.
Totally worth spending money on it to get it running again.
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09-22-14, 10:12 AM
#9
Waffles - hmmm good
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I wouldn't go the 6 port route. If you go 13B, use the 12A plates and make it a ported 4 port.
That way you can easily get good 13B housings.
All that said, at 66K unless theres been poor maintenance that motor should be almost new
inside it.
That way you can easily get good 13B housings.
All that said, at 66K unless theres been poor maintenance that motor should be almost new
inside it.
09-22-14, 04:14 PM
#10
Thanks for all the replies so far.
Certainly makes me feel good about my current/original 12A. I have heard nothing but good things about the 12A!
I am more thinking of starting a winter project, and my parking/storage means I can't work on the car over winter.
So I would be looking at picking up another motor to take apart, learn about, and rebuild.
The way I figure it, I didn't think buying an old 12A was ideal. I could get a 13B easier and then go from there.
I will research more regarding 4 port vs 6 port. I guess some sort of hybrid block would be in order.
Certainly makes me feel good about my current/original 12A. I have heard nothing but good things about the 12A!
I am more thinking of starting a winter project, and my parking/storage means I can't work on the car over winter.
So I would be looking at picking up another motor to take apart, learn about, and rebuild.
The way I figure it, I didn't think buying an old 12A was ideal. I could get a 13B easier and then go from there.
I will research more regarding 4 port vs 6 port. I guess some sort of hybrid block would be in order.
09-22-14, 06:50 PM
#11
My car has 66k miles and is basically all original, but I have some longer term goals for it over the next few years.
One item has been the engine/drivetrain. I have considered getting a decent condition 12A to tear apart and rebuild over the winter, but the more research I do I don't see the point in it.
One item has been the engine/drivetrain. I have considered getting a decent condition 12A to tear apart and rebuild over the winter, but the more research I do I don't see the point in it.
12A or 13B will both get you BIG fun in the car, but at the end of it all, what are you looking for?
10-18-14, 09:41 AM
#16
Plenty of good responses!
Well it seems like I somehow took everybody's advice because just a day or two ago I purchased the following from a local rotary head:
--> 12A Streetport. 5000 km on rebuild using all new parts, hard/soft seals. Done by a well known local rebuilder. Housings were nearly brand new. Complete longblock.. alt, water pump, distributor, sensors etc. MSD Blaster 2 coils.
--> Racing beat wrap around intake manifold.
--> An original RB modified Dellorto 48 DHLA. Rebuilt last year. Looks awesome.
--> 83 FB Tranny, freshly rebuilt.
--> Exeedy stage 1 clutch.
--> A custom exhaust utilizing RB header. Has two resonators and a high flow cat to muffle a bit more.
This entire setup was in the owners FB who pulled it for me to do a 13b REW swap. The engine was running beautifully and got a ride in the car etc before it was pulled for me. It was daily driven.
I will update with info in my forgotten about build thread.
My plan is to keep this engine/carb setup as a spare. I will install the exhaust and tranny most likely when I pull my tranny to replace the clutch.
Based on this I will be in the 12A game certainly for years to come.
Well it seems like I somehow took everybody's advice because just a day or two ago I purchased the following from a local rotary head:
--> 12A Streetport. 5000 km on rebuild using all new parts, hard/soft seals. Done by a well known local rebuilder. Housings were nearly brand new. Complete longblock.. alt, water pump, distributor, sensors etc. MSD Blaster 2 coils.
--> Racing beat wrap around intake manifold.
--> An original RB modified Dellorto 48 DHLA. Rebuilt last year. Looks awesome.
--> 83 FB Tranny, freshly rebuilt.
--> Exeedy stage 1 clutch.
--> A custom exhaust utilizing RB header. Has two resonators and a high flow cat to muffle a bit more.
This entire setup was in the owners FB who pulled it for me to do a 13b REW swap. The engine was running beautifully and got a ride in the car etc before it was pulled for me. It was daily driven.
I will update with info in my forgotten about build thread.
My plan is to keep this engine/carb setup as a spare. I will install the exhaust and tranny most likely when I pull my tranny to replace the clutch.
Based on this I will be in the 12A game certainly for years to come.
10-20-14, 06:43 PM
#18
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Turbo 12a's are very neat, but I have found the cost's out-way the performance gains, but it all comes down to personal preference like everyone has said. If you like wiring Rb20det long blocks can be found from 1100-1300$..... But I guess I'm partial. I really didn't want to spend close to 1000$ on a gasket/seal kit alone....
BT
BT
10-21-14, 09:48 AM
#19
carb whisperer
Turbo 12a's are very neat, but I have found the cost's out-way the performance gains, but it all comes down to personal preference like everyone has said. If you like wiring Rb20det long blocks can be found from 1100-1300$..... But I guess I'm partial. I really didn't want to spend close to 1000$ on a gasket/seal kit alone....
BT
BT
Nice engine, but the prices on them and their parts is stupid because every 16 year old boy with his hat on backwards wants one.
10-24-14, 09:16 AM
#20
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My 71,477-mile 12A is seized, probably carbon locked from so many years of sitting. For the cost of apex seals and a gasket set, I got a running V6 to replace it. Now I'm stuck with a 12A that I don't dare try to disassemble to inspect, and can't sell because nobody else wants it either. May use it as a core charge on the V6 that replaced it. I still have 2 weeks before that expires.
If you ever take it on vacation and anything goes wrong, you're in deep trouble. With a piston engine, there's both hope and help.
I've tried a big block for the nostalgia and the novelty. It was fun, but then all too soon the novelty and nostalgia weren't enough to offset everything wrong with trying to daily an impractical engine. Not saying a rotary can't be practical or reliable, but it must be a serious commitment, and probably needs to be confined to it's best place / application. Plus why can't a 1.1L average better than 25-ish MPG in such a light little car with decent aero?
Not hating, just not seeing it.
If you ever take it on vacation and anything goes wrong, you're in deep trouble. With a piston engine, there's both hope and help.
I've tried a big block for the nostalgia and the novelty. It was fun, but then all too soon the novelty and nostalgia weren't enough to offset everything wrong with trying to daily an impractical engine. Not saying a rotary can't be practical or reliable, but it must be a serious commitment, and probably needs to be confined to it's best place / application. Plus why can't a 1.1L average better than 25-ish MPG in such a light little car with decent aero?
Not hating, just not seeing it.
10-25-14, 08:13 AM
#21
carb whisperer
My 71,477-mile 12A is seized, probably carbon locked from so many years of sitting. For the cost of apex seals and a gasket set, I got a running V6 to replace it. Now I'm stuck with a 12A that I don't dare try to disassemble to inspect, and can't sell because nobody else wants it either. May use it as a core charge on the V6 that replaced it. I still have 2 weeks before that expires.
If you ever take it on vacation and anything goes wrong, you're in deep trouble. With a piston engine, there's both hope and help.
I've tried a big block for the nostalgia and the novelty. It was fun, but then all too soon the novelty and nostalgia weren't enough to offset everything wrong with trying to daily an impractical engine. Not saying a rotary can't be practical or reliable, but it must be a serious commitment, and probably needs to be confined to it's best place / application. Plus why can't a 1.1L average better than 25-ish MPG in such a light little car with decent aero?
Not hating, just not seeing it.
If you ever take it on vacation and anything goes wrong, you're in deep trouble. With a piston engine, there's both hope and help.
I've tried a big block for the nostalgia and the novelty. It was fun, but then all too soon the novelty and nostalgia weren't enough to offset everything wrong with trying to daily an impractical engine. Not saying a rotary can't be practical or reliable, but it must be a serious commitment, and probably needs to be confined to it's best place / application. Plus why can't a 1.1L average better than 25-ish MPG in such a light little car with decent aero?
Not hating, just not seeing it.
10-25-14, 12:08 PM
#22
Don't start a Rotary vs Boinger discussion!
If you ask me, an Rx isn't and Rx without a Rotary.
With that being said, I was never in doubt of my Rotary, just between a 12A and a 13B...
Now I am the new owner of a very sweet 12A streetport setup, and have thus committed myself to rotarys for much more time to come.
If you ask me, an Rx isn't and Rx without a Rotary.
With that being said, I was never in doubt of my Rotary, just between a 12A and a 13B...
Now I am the new owner of a very sweet 12A streetport setup, and have thus committed myself to rotarys for much more time to come.
11-08-14, 06:37 PM
#23
NEED A MARIAH HATCH BADLY
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and when ever you have a great setup a new bigger carb doesn't always work better always keep the old one that gets 28 mpg!!!!!!!!! yep I made that mistake
and gained 0 extra hp by going to a bigger carb tried to run the old carb down went to the dirt tracker I gave it to and he done gave to another who gave to another big lesson learned the hard way!! 
11-10-14, 05:07 PM
#24
carb whisperer
My 80 Model 7 got 28mpg from Calgary Alberta Canada to Monroe Louisiana with a edelbrock 500cfm carb perfectly tuned with a turbo!!! the gas mileage did go down to about 23-24 through Kansas @ 100mph across the whole state!! try tuning you carb!!! using an o2 sensor with fuel display it helps tons!! for tuning!!
and when ever you have a great setup a new bigger carb doesn't always work better always keep the old one that gets 28 mpg!!!!!!!!! yep I made that mistake and gained 0 extra hp by going to a bigger carb tried to run the old carb down went to the dirt tracker I gave it to and he done gave to another who gave to another big lesson learned the hard way!!
and when ever you have a great setup a new bigger carb doesn't always work better always keep the old one that gets 28 mpg!!!!!!!!! yep I made that mistake
and gained 0 extra hp by going to a bigger carb tried to run the old carb down went to the dirt tracker I gave it to and he done gave to another who gave to another big lesson learned the hard way!! Methinks the carb is fine.
ALSO, if you are running 465-500 CFM carbies on stockport 12A's you get an easy 24 highway just by running them stoic@55 mph. You can push it past stoic with a 4bbl (NA) and get some extra MPG's...
