82streetracer

iTrader: (1)

Okay, so far on my car I have added a great exhaust, kosie K1s, suspension, removed emmissions, electric fan, better cooling system, and soon to have a gsl rear axle.

I will be rebuilding the motor over the winter to streetport it, my car is already pretty fast and can school all the ricers in my neiborhood, but I cant hold **** to all the major players around here (3rd gens, gsx elclipses, big v8 cars)

anyhoo, I have been considering the 9in superchargers, but I would like to have it intercooled.

I have seen intecooled supercharged v8s. where a intercooler is between the blower and the intake manifold.

I figure I could have this kind of thing built at a radiator shop, but what about the water.

could I just plumb it into my cooling system, like right off the radiator before it gets to the engine, so its as cold as it can be, or should it have its own cooing system.

I was also thinking. if I got like a 1.5 or 2 inch intercooler underthere I could have the top of the blower and some kind of scoop sticking out of the hood.
that would look sick. plus loud *** blower whine.

What do you think,
also, headers, blower, big carb, streetport, msd, the works.

could it hold up to some of the heavy hitters.

jr69187

I will know soon but i will be running a eaton. I am hopping to be running some real low number in the 1/4 Byt the way for a cheap inter cooler use a yugo radiator. it is small and cool real well.

jr

REVHED

You can't use a radiator as an intercooler!

jr69187

hey that is my joke ok

jr

REVHED

The water coming out of your radiator is going to be hotter than the compressed air coming out of the blower... so you'd actually be heating the air not cooling it.

If you want to run a water/air intercooler it's going to need it's cooling system.

I saw an interesting water to air system on a 13BT Rx-4 once. For normal street use it had the heat exchanger out in front of the radiator. But, for drag racing the water was diverted to an exchanger inside a tank filled with ice. Very effective (intake temps measured around 5-10*C) and you can slip a beer in the tank and have an ice cold drink at the end of the run.

peejay

look under the hood of a t-bird super coupe. those have air/air intercooled roots blowers.

and yes, they are a total nightmare, can't even begin to see the engine beneath all the ducting!

jr69187

Roots blowers..... I thought those were eatons? Or else i got a few roots that say eaton on them.

jr

peejay

Eaton makes roots blowers.

Sterling

I've tried to tell you before...Eaton blowers that you and I are using are roots blowers. A "roots supercharger" is a type of blower.
The Camden blowers are also roots blowers, as are the gigantic Allison-Detroit modeled xx-71 sieries blowers.

82streetracer -

You don't want to use a water cooled IC for daily driver application. The water absorbs the heat from the charge as it passes through the IC very well...until it can't hold any mnore heat! It can not disapate the heat quickly. They are best used for drag purposes where the runs are very short, and there's time in between to pack them with ice.

An air cooled IC from a Starion, T-bird, Volvo, whatever, will be fine.

And if you could sandwich radiators together so that the entryflow, flow throughout, and exit flow were all better than the supercharger plumbing, you could very well use them as intercoolers.
But it would'nt be worth the trouble when they are so abundantly found in stock applications for large cars, and will be as good for our purposes as $300 models.

If you are going to incorporate an intercooler, then you need to do a blow-thru set-up. You cannot have fuel going thru your IC, and the only other way is fuel injection- also customized.

jr69187

Yes fuel through blower bad!!!!! Hey sterling sorry but i know a roots setup form hot rods is a lot different and eatons are made by a company called magnum power sports. and i don't think they are a of roots company./ to me roots is a name. I know that it is a type or style of blower also. Sorry for the mix up

jr

REVHED

Not sure exactly what you mean by that.

A radiator and intecooler have vastly different design and flow characteristics which means they are not interchangeable.

82streetracer

iTrader: (1)

take a look at this site.

THis is what I want to do, they say you can use the cars cooling system through the intercooler.

I dont see how fuel going through the blower and the intercooler would be a problem, this isnt like a suck through turbo system where you cant intercooler.

but take a look at this.
http://www.blowerdriveservice.com/bl...ercoolers.html

peejay

It's generally a bad idea to have fuel going through an intercooler. It can puddle up and cause fuel lag.

(And it's DRAW THOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11)

jr69187

Fuel through the wrong type of blower can quickly eat up the finish on the lobes inside the blower. It all depands on if the blower is built for a drawthrough setup. If you do draw through you need to cool the ari before it gets to the blower. And i got tons of crazy ideas on how to do that. And by crazy i mean super crazy like using liquid oxy to drop the temp drasticly. but those ideas are just crazy. Any wau please read everything sterling has ever wrote on this before considering it. And this is a very complictaed and extensive operation.

jr

82streetracer

iTrader: (1)

so, why can you do it on a big V8 with a massive supercharger and not a rotary with a small supercharger. Your answers are not making sense to me.

peejay

The problem is that apparently Eatons have a coating on the rotors that does not like gasoline. That seems kinda fishy to me since they'd be exposed to gasoline and oil mist in their OE applications.

The cooling is done AFTER the supercharger, not before. Compressing the air is what makes it hot.

82streetracer

iTrader: (1)

here is a really shitty sketch of what Im thinking.

from the carb, air and fuel will get pressurized by the supercharger, forced through the intercooler and into the engine, I dont see why this wouldnt work. I dont see how it can puddle in this application.[IMG]C:\WINDOWS\Profiles\Eric Crear\Desktop[/IMG]

82streetracer

iTrader: (1)

dammit, someone want to host a pic for me.

peejay

the longer the distance from the carb to the engine, the more opportunity for the fuel to fall out of suspension.

82streetracer

iTrader: (1)

yeh but with all the turbulace with the blower I dont think that would be a problem, the intercooler I saw on a 502 at the car craft nationals this year looked like a sweet setup.
The woman that owned the car (70 chevell convertable, sick car, somewhere like 1200 WHP) said that she drove it on the street all the time on 93 with out a problem

peejay

usually blower motors have the compression reduced from 10:1 to around 6:1

yes there's turbolence from the blower HOWEVER the longer the intake tract the more likely the fuel will wet out. the airflow goes from turbulent to laminar and when it's laminar the airflow close to the walls slows down a lot and the fuel can fall out of suspension.

what is an intercooler? it is a giant mass of surface area so the air can be scrubbed of its heat.

79+80_rx-7

post it as attached file at the bottom of the reply screen, then open it one the thread screen


then go to edit, and post the image as you tried, but put the attachment HTTP thing thre.....



Let the forum host the pic...


LATERZ, Andrew

82streetracer

iTrader: (1)

here goes...

82streetracer

iTrader: (1)

hey, I managed to post a pic. cool.

Ill post some pix of my ride tommorow so you can all check it out.

Sterling

You're sure about all that, huh? You need to do some more research before being so certain of yourself.

Air flowing laterally thru a radiator cools whatever is flowing thru the ducting inside - beit water, antifreeze, or air- if it's hotter than the ambient air temp, of course. (Felt obligated to add that last bit of "obvi-******-uosness just to keep from being told that statement is false, too.)
You could well have to "sandwich" five radiators together, BUT...if you could put enough of them together to make "...the entryflow, flow throughout, and exit flow ... all better than the supercharger plumbing...", then the monstrosity of a home-made intercooler would indeed, THEORETICALLY, SOLEY FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS DISCUSSION...make for an effective intercooler.

...Now what the hell is the problem?

Typically a draw through forced induction system does not include an intercooler.
Liquid oxygen, eh? Was nice knowing you.


82streetracer-

You are proposing an intercooler set up that is just like the Lightening truck that uses the Eaton M-112 blower. (See photos on Ebay.) I was going to ask the forum about that set-up, too, because it seems to me the IC is too small to do any good.
Now obviously it must work or else Ford would'nt have bother to put it on there. But it might be filled with refrigerant and operate like a seperate air conditioning unit. It is, after all, on a super-duty truck engine!

So the misunderstanding is that typically, this is an unusual employment of an intercooler. Most intercoolers are mounted like radiators, used in blow-through applications, and if fuel vapor were to run through them, it would condence on the inside plumbing of the unit, and drip down to the bottom.
This is what peejay was talking about.

I proposed a home made intake manifold design this winter that incorporated plumbing throughout it along with the use of an air conditioning unit set up soley for the purpose of cooling the charge. This was in my "pre Eaton Project" Days.
I don't recall many responces entertaining the idea very seriously. Kinda like REVHED with the radiators. I asked peejay that radiator question long ago. He said it could'nt be done, I think.

82streetracer, when you come up with new ideas, you need to research them a little bit before presenting them here on the (ironically named) "Forum", because people here seem more apt to try to shoot them down rather than help you develop them.
That's why, despite jr69187s lack of research into roots blowers, the Eaton Corporation, and what an oxygen tank can do when it blows up, I always demonstrate interest in what he's doing - mainly because he has actually tried already to get the Eaton to work. He's farther along than me.

There is also the fact that alot of people that answer these questions tend to have preconcieved notions about how things will work that are completely influenced by their own sense of logic, ignorance, and opinion. Those are the people that when they finally run out of bullshit to tell you after having spewed their "knowledge" out their ***, tell you to "Get a turbo, man!".

You have certainly given me something to think about, regarding my approach to cooling the charge. I think you should do some searches here like jr69187 said regarding my project. I asked all the questions that you need for the BASICS, and gained great insight as to how **** will work.
I'm not tooting my own horn...It was everyone elses answers that made the posts what they are.

I still refer to these older posts. There is a bunch of info about the Camden model, too.