mar3

iTrader: (8)

OK, before I get graphic'd by DF, I did a search and went through twenty or so threads before I decided to post this. A lot of 'em got close but always found a solution in cleaning the terminals or connector. I have already done all of that in the course of swapping in a new starter and a problem that was only intermittent before has gone terminal now. When I turn the key, sometimes nothing, and I mean not even solenoid clicking, would happen. Coupla tries and suddenly the starter would come on-line full song and start the beast. It was like that since I got it a month ago. I kept thinking solenoid and cables, so I put it off until this past Wednesday. I rebuilt the carb on the car and decided to replace the starter with the one from my deceased '80. I cleaned everything and sanded down the posts and terminals on the battery. Gumout carb clean and Brakekleen'd all terminals on the starter as well. Go to start the car after I set the floats and absolutely nothing when I turn the key. I had charged the battery while I was setting the float levels, so it had a complete charge, still does. Everyone else that had this identical problem before found something obvious. This is not. To make matters worse, when I shoved it out of the garage to turn the engine in gear, it turned over and the fuel kill relay put power to the fuel pump for that time the engine was turning. Where else, or better, what else could kill power to the starter if it "thinks" conditions are unsafe? I have yet to start the top to bottom diagnosis with a ground light, so a quick tip where to start would be nice. Even nicer would be someone who had this problem and solved it after ruling out the usual suspects....

SilverRocket

I had the same problem - it was the smallest wire going to the starter solenoid; the one that connects by just sliding it on to a flat metal terminal. As I recall, the wire is supposed to be zip tied to something or other, but mine was dangling and the connector was all dirty inside. I cleaned it out with some 'electrical contact cleaner' (I think that's what it's called, anyways...) spray, and wire-brushed the terminal. Problem solved.

I don't think this is going to help you, but I thought I'd mention it since I had the exact problem you're describing. I realize you said you've already cleaned the connections.

What about the ignition switch? Have you determined it is not the problem?

I think you probably will have to follow the problem all the way from the ignition switch to the starter, and determine whether or not each point is faulty or not. But I know nothing about electrical stuff, so maybe there's an easier way.

As I recall, the Haynes manual has a good walkthrough for diagnosing this kind of problem.

REVHED

If the starter doesn't "click" then it's either not getting a signal from the ignition switch or the solenoid's stuffed. If you've ruled the solenoid out then the problem must lie in the wiring between the main fusible link, the ignition switch and the solenoid.

BTW, I just had a look at the wiring diagram and there is a fusible link in line with the signal wire that runs from the ignition switch to the solenoid. Might wanna check that... I think it's under the dash somewhere.

mar3

iTrader: (8)

thanks guys...looks like I'll be stuffing my head in cramped spaces this weekend....

SilverRocket

Yeah, I feel your pain.... I've been having an intermittent problem with the sound on my stereo cutting out on bass notes. The RX7 is great, but electrical or stereo stuff invariably ends with me in contorted positions only previously witnessed while playing Twister.

REVHED

Ok, here's what I'd do... first check whether or not you are getting 12v+ to the ignition terminal on the solenoid when the key is turned to the START position. That you'll know where to start looking. If there's nothing then I'd say it's either the ignition switch or the fusible link under the dash.

mar3

iTrader: (8)

Man, I wish you had an idea of where that fusible link is supposed to be. Even better would be a pic of the beast. Imagine the twisting to get that shot! If I find it, I'll get a shot for prosperity's sake, whether it was the problem or not...

vladu13

Yeah, the dreaded sound of silence when turning the key. Been there. Since your problem went from bad to worse after putiing in a different starter, are you sure the starter you swapped in is good? I've run into this problem with used parts before.

mar3

iTrader: (8)

It got really bad just prior to the carb rebuild...after the initial rebuild I got just one crank after a lot of waiting and turning of the wrist, carb flooded, so that was how I knew the initial settings from before were no good...engine wouldn't crank at all after that...the little windows were full, so I tore off the top again and set everything to factory specs, 16 mm level, 51 mm drop to get a good baseline, that's when I did the starter swap...went to start the car again and no crankee...

FJ

I may be missing something here, but I believe your new car was an '84?
If so, the fusible link is between the battery and ignition switch, not in the line from the switch to the starter. It is one of the three in the usual location on the strut tower. On an '84, there are no fusible links under the dash.
If it was that fusible link though, everything that comes through the ignition switch would not work, not just the starter. If the clock stays on while you try to start, it's not likely the link but the switch itself or the connector between the switch and the solenoid.

"when I shoved it out of the garage to turn the engine in gear, it turned over and the fuel kill relay put power to the fuel pump for that time the engine was turning."

The alternator output is connected to the same line as the fusible link, going to the battery and ignition switch, but it is on the ignition side of the link so it would supply power while it was turning, even if the link was bad.

I'm not sure if REVHED was looking at a diagram for a different year, or if I am mistaking the year of your car, but I hope it's just the link on the strut.

-John.

mar3

iTrader: (8)

Indeed, it is an '84...looking at everything mentioned so far, I'm beginning to suspect my ignition switch itself has gone south...I'm not going to let that suspicion detract from following the circuit from the starter solenoid, however, as SilverRocket suggested. It'd be nice if the problem was there.... No fusibles under the dash, eh? Glad you mentioned that before I got myself stuck in there!

mar3

iTrader: (8)

UPDATE...

As SilverRocket had suggested and I had started to fear, it was, in fact, the ignition switch itself. Mazda used a cheap white plastic snap cap to hold all the big power leads to the main black barrel that the key and tumblers are housed in. That snap cap has plastic no bigger than 1.5 mm thick in 4 places to hold onto the barrel for its dear life and two of the spots had cracked. This allowed the cap to separate from the barrel just enough to cut electrical contact for any heavy electrical loads. The stereo is also a victim. I'm doing a poor man's fix up and I'll post the pics of the damaged piece for all to see and go "hmmmmm..."

smile444

Please send me copies!!

I am now just starting to deal with this same problem that you had.

Thanks,

Joe in KC

mar3

iTrader: (8)

The pics will be up tomorrow.... I had forgotten about this thread, sorry....

mar3

iTrader: (8)

-------->>smile444

I still can't post pics...PM your Email URL and I'll send the two shots I took this morning with some notes....start at the starter, though. Funny how many times it is that little clip that goes on the solenoid that needs to be cleaned....

smile444

okay, I'll send it over

mar3

iTrader: (8)

Hooray, I can post pics again!! Thank you, Jason and all the people who helped him get it done! Here are the pics which conclude this thread begun many moons ago...

This is a shot showing the broken upper tab clearly. The lower one is not so obvious. By using the purple zip tie and the convenient casting boss for a cover screw, I was able to pull the two big wires shown toward the ignition barrel to fix the problem.





They don't make any metallic contact anywhere and there is no worry regarding shorting. This slightly rotated shot shows the actual placement of the wires against the plastic cap even with the zip tie pulling them against the ignition barrel...





The two pictures convey my fix better than my words, I hope...

mar3

iTrader: (8)

And wouldn't you know it, this '83 I picked up is starting to do the same darn thing...sheesh...

Keaponlaffen

there's jsut some things on these cars that are wrong with every one

79+80+84_rx-7

hehe, Im glad my 84 doesnt have this problem............






Mario come check out my new white car.....

mar3

iTrader: (8)

Keaponlaffen....lol, OK, now I'm going to have to join the face-in-avatar club now that I can load files into Test Area 51...I prefer the Canadian body, though, you manly man!....

JEC-31

AHA! I just finished typing a long post about my woes with my newest toy ($100 GS Update: so THATS why it was cheap) and here is my exact problem, and what looks like the solution!

Thanks for the excellent photos, Mar3!

I will get right on this. I need to turn the dang thing to check compression and find out if I'm going to replace the oil cooler or the whole motor.

mar3

iTrader: (8)

I'm bringing this back from the dead to put the pics back in that made it useful and also to update a secondary problem that resulted from not inspecting the assembly close enough when I did this fix...


The other problem that surfaced after that '84 had been sitting a few months:

SSixspeed had to borrow that car for a week and when his wiffey showed up for the car, I noticed that the ignition switch seemed to stick after starting the car so that you had to jiggle it to get power for the dash and engine and stop the starter from engaging. I WD-40'd it and hoped they'd have no problems since I had already stated it was a trustworthy, everyday car even in the cold.... Yea, he bought it, too...

They returned it, no problems, and I decided to drive it for a few weeks to keep it healthy. The problem was still there regarding the sticking and it slowly got worse until I finally had a complete blackout of power going home using back roads. I had to wiggle it real serious to get electrical contact so the engine would fire again and run, but Red Rex got me home. The next day was a Saturday and I pulled the steering column cover to see what the heck was going on.

Look at the top pic...to the left of the top blue arrow, you can see a screw head next to a fat wire. You should not be able to see that much of it. Vibration had backed it out and it was that looseness that broke the snap tabs in the first place that hold the electrical plate assembly to the ignition barrel. I tightened that sucker up, tightened up the purple zip clip which had stretched over time and now ALL of my ignition switch problems are a thing of the past.

With the previous WD-40 juice-up, it's now like turning a hot knife in melted butter.

Schweet!!