jtalar

84 GSL stock, freshly overhauled engine by Goopy performance, freshly rebuilt Nikki carb, Car will not fire on its own, one squirt of carb cleaner and she fires and runs, but she is idling at 4000 rpm!!! Tried adjusting idle screw....nothing happens and she is smoking like an old freight train........any help?

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

how much run time is on the engine? depending on what assembly oil they used it usually takes upwards of 30 minutes before the engine will settle down and stop smoking. thicker oils will also smoke a bit more, if it has 20W50 in it for example it will be much thicker and last longer than say 10W40 which is what i use for rebuilds in summer and 10W30 for winter rebuilds.

the older engine's nitrite layer is very thin and usually gets scuffed up during a rebuild so the 12A overhauls did smoke for longer until the irons lapped into the oil seal tract.

for the 4k RPM issue, sounds like it has a vacuum leak or something could be hanging the throttle up on one of the many many cables the later model engines used such as a stuck cruise control solenoid or choke partially hung up. you can try to physically turn the throttle shaft backwards to see if a cable is pulling on it holding it off idle, or physically feel that there is some slack in each of the cables. if it is a cable binding issue then the accelerator pump will always be depressed, which would explain why it isn't priming to start. all of the carb settings are 100% in their original positions so the idle and mixture and RPM stop should already be very close.

check the throats while pumping the throttle to make sure the accelerator pump is pumping a stream of fuel into each primary throat, usually takes 2-3 pumps to prime the engine before starting even with the choke especially with a new engine that is still beginning to seal and has weak compression/vacuum. the accelerator pump cam is on the driver side lower portion of the carburetor, if you do not see the cam move when applying throttle then i would almost be assured it has a cable holding the throttle open partially.

if you can get the idle down and car drivable you can bring it by and i can look everything over on it.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

also keep in mind if the old engine lost a coolant or oil seal all that oil or coolant can accumulate in the cat and or muffler. i had one car that smoked like a train for nearly 2 hours, even i was beginning to get concerned but it eventually went away... that engine lost a coolant seal and had filled the muffler nearly full of coolant.

so long as you notice the smoke slowly dissipating and keep an eye on your oil level i wouldn't worry too much about it for a good chunk of run time. if you are still consuming a bit of oil after an hour, call your builder and tell him he screwed up, had an FD recently with that issue that wound up having scarred irons and was using about 3 quarts every 500 miles(used over a quart just for the dyno session with less than an hour of run time and only about a dozen pulls).

13x

jtaler .... it will all be ok

I don't know about after an hour jumping to the assumption "the rebuilder screwed you" but thats just my opinion

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

it probably will but you have to keep an eye on how things are progressing to keep possible damage minimal.

if the engine is consuming a bit of oil after an hour(keep reading your oil dipstick and gauge how much oil the engine is using about every 30 minutes), yes something is wrong. every shop makes mistakes.

but yes, i wouldn't be overly concerned about it unless it has been constantly smoking thick smoke for an hour+, then you have to determine what is being burned and whether the car is consuming what is being burned. thick white sweet smelling smoke= coolant, thinner blue-ish colored smoke that fades as it mixes with air is oil.

13x

and of course continue to check for visual external leaks ....

DriveFast7

iTrader: (1)

Idle it for 30 minutes, shut it off and let it cool. Do that 3 times. The heat and cool cycling will reduce smoking. It's usually just the oil control rings taking time to get acquainted with the irons.

Then go drive it on city streets slow, when you put a load on the motor that'll also reduce smoking. I had one motor where it was a smoker until about 2 hours of city driving then like a switch flipping, it stopped. Now it pulls strong in my REPU. Keep an eye on fluid levels. Don't bog the engine during break in!

13x

^ I like that wll have to try that ... heat cycles will have to keep in mind ...

jtaler the engine I am currently run smoked and smoked and smoked a little more ... then it stopped lol

and yes the fluids were still full

jtalar

Sound good guys, I think the cruise control might be the culprit, I will disconnect it tonight and see if she will fire on her own and run at normal rpms. The reason i hooked the cruise up was to try and keep everything original but I might have to 86 that idea. I was excited and then disapointed within seconds of hearing it fire up finally after over a year of messing with it, and then see it smoke like that and idle at such high rpms. I figured that it must have been something that I did since I am not too familiar with all the cables and vacuum hoses running amuck everywhere. Thanks for the help.

jtalar

Karack, this is the first time it fired up since the build, you rebuilt my other carb a while back and from it sitting while the engine was being done, plus other things I was doing to it, it must have gummed up. It wouldnt run at all, so the spare carb I gave you to rebuild, which I picked up yesterday and installed, she fired up after a little spritz of carb cleaner. So there is no run time on the rebuilt engine except for what I did last night.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

ok, wanted to be sure. just let it run and keep an eye on everything and try to figure out what is holding up the throttle first. you may want to adjust the idle up a little bit once it is figured out to idle it at about 1500 for 30 minutes or so.

usually i will let a fresh engine run for about 15 minutes, shut it down to cool off and top off the coolant and be sure there is no leaks, rinse and repeat another time then take it out and drive it rather easily, during break in each engine is unique and will give different symptoms of issues that usually disappear within an hour of runtime.

jtalar

Ok, I got her to start up under her own power, and loosened the cruise control cable, now it idles at 2500 rpm, smokes like hell still, plus I have no oil pressure or engine temp indication, I don't want to run her anymore with the chance of overheating and burning up this new engine. Do these engines run hot? this one gets smokin hot....

13x

back the throttle cable off some .... loosen it

shut it down and fix the guage situation ... perhaps fuse

forgot what year it is ... have a 84 -85 insturment cluster

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

initial startup the engine will run warm due to the friction of the seals seating and additional fuel dumped into the engine until compression builds. but it generally is due to an air pocket in the cooling system, the thermostat needs to open up to get all the air out so double check the coolant level to see if it burped and sucked in some coolant lowering the level too far.

2500 will also warm the engine up a bit just due to the higher idle and needs to be addressed.

check and clean the connection at the oil pressure sender unit, clean it with some carb cleaner and slide it on and off a few times. oil/grease on the connector usually fouls the signal.

the wire for the temp gauge should be yellow with a red tracer, oil pressure sender i believe standard is a brown wire with a yellow tracer. the coolant temp sender is usually forgotten about when connecting the harness, the sensor is located under the oil filter on the rear iron, tucked away a little bit under there.

jtalar

13X, it's an 84, Karack, I will try that. Everything worked before it went to the shop, maybe I have a bad fuse or wire. It probably doesn't help that it had a "do it yourself alarm system" installed that I ripped out, and might have induced the issue...again......

13x

jtalar

Apparently the other fellow has tons of time to type out long responses so I'll back off as far as this is concerned. If you need anything you know how to get a hold of me

DriveFast7

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't think about running a new rotor motor without a full set of gauges operational. Especially oil pressure.

Twilightoptics

iTrader: (1)

Pick up a cheap $30 mechanical oil pressure gauge and plumb that in. Atleast for initial start up and test drives.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

drama...

he is still one of my customers and even if he wasn't i have given support on this forum for a decade of my life, nothing is new there. hell, i tried to talk him out of spending thousands on the first gen and also told him how busy i was up front(hence why i assume he went to them for the build and i am a goopy racing supporter), nor am i trying to sell him anything now. didn't mention charging him to look at the car either did i?

2 hours is a hell of a long time, i have never had an engine smoke that long ever. even peter's RX4 smoked for less than 5 minutes otherwise the crowd of 12 people waiting for it to come to life might not have hung around. but as i also said, everyone uses different assembly lubes or assembly procedures, i'm just not sure why some use the most harsh assembly lubes they can find(most aren't meant to be burned and are for internal bearings..).

spin the oil filter off, if there's oil in the filter then there is pressure to the engine(or rent a test gauge from an auto parts store). just watch everything carefully and run the engine, feeling the upper and lower radiator hoses, if the upper is not getting hot then their is an air pocket in the system or the thermostat is stuck closed.

*this long drawn out post brought to you is my break from breathing in iron dust from porting engine irons*

13x

drama?

really?

I backed out of the convo but didn't want jtalar thinking I bailed, that is drama?

Customer??? Your closing your shop, well you have been for quiet some time now

As far as Peters build I hope he has better luck ..... (to clear up for anyone else, no karack has not built an engine for me)

"*this long drawn out post brought to you is my break from breathing in iron dust from porting engine irons*" there are these things called masks .... use one

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

Wow you guys sound like a gay couple who recently got divorced if thats the proper name, lots of drama LMAO

rwatson5651

iTrader: (5)

I agree. I would much rather hear about jtalar's progress with his smoking engine......

jtalar

Wow!! I didn't mean to cause a pissing contest. 13X, yes I am a customer of Karack, he rebuilt both Nikki carbs of mine and he did try and talk me out of the 12A. I approached him about it and he told me he could build a 13B but the timeline to get it built was not within my needs/wants. That is why I sent my original engine to Goopy, although that ordeal was not an easy go, we had some problems for sure. But that can be for another post. Karack, 13X was the only person here in Vegas that took time out of his schedule to come out and help me when I first bought it, as I knew Absolutely nothing about rotary cars. Since then I have asked quite a few people that I have had dealings with for parts and what not, to come give me a hand (I even explained that I would pay them for their time), but to no avail.

Back to my issue, I spliced in a new connector for the oil pressure sender, tapped on the glass and it came to life. However I think the gauge is bad cause it hangs up. I am in the process of installing a new coolant temp sender, I will let all know how it goes. As far as the smoking, it seems to have subsided slightly when first fired up and running. After several minutes it starts blowing smoke like crazy,and it is still idling at 2500 rpms despite all my efforts. Do the wires running to the trans have anything to do with engine idle? During reinstallation a clip on one wire broke off, and I lost my identifying marks so I might have two swapped...

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

Doesnt matter, wire has nothing to do with smoky motor

Twilightoptics

iTrader: (1)

Friend of mine fried an engine block in his 1990 Audi 90. Smoked a lot. Years - like 7 years - later he got a new motor in there and got it fired up. It smoked to beat hell for about 30 miles from all the coolant and crap in the exhaust. Cleared up after that good drive cycle and runs like a champ smoke free now.

I don't recall seeing if you mentioned how the previous motor failed?

Is this a coolant cloud or oil cloud? If nothing went in the exhaust from the original motor or R&R, there is definitely something wrong beyond the carb.