Speakers and the Joystick on the GSL-SE
04-13-13, 11:05 AM
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Speakers and the Joystick on the GSL-SE
there is a lot of old threads on audio for the 1st gen but I couldn't really find the answer I was looking for. I want to know if its possible to swap speakers with new aftermarkets or would the amps, etc Mazda has in the car not power them? I am fine with the stock headunit. Also wanted to eliminate the directional joystick by the power window switch. How difficult if at all possible is this? Just unplug it? Or will it interfere with the speakers?
04-13-13, 11:22 AM
#2
Old [Sch|F]ool
IIRC, the joystick's connectors are male in/female out (or vice-versa) so you can unplug it and plug the stereo directly into the amplifiers. Since it's in series with that connection, you can't just remove it.
I've used generic speakers with success.
I've used generic speakers with success.
04-13-13, 04:37 PM
#3
The amps can drive aftermarket speakers just fine. I am running Alpine SPS-410 in the front and I think Alpine SPS-610 in the rear but they could be SPS-510's. Pretty much no issues installing them. They fit under the factory grill covers. Car speakers are better today than in the early 80's but they are still 4 ohm. Find a set you like and put them in the car. If you still have the original speakers it will make a significant difference.
Never tried to remove the joystick and have the system still work. But I am looking at the one I took out of my 85 GSL and both connectors are male din connectors (one is white and one is black) so I don't know how you could just bypass it. Perhaps there were different arrangements and the one in your car matches what peejay is talking about.
Never tried to remove the joystick and have the system still work. But I am looking at the one I took out of my 85 GSL and both connectors are male din connectors (one is white and one is black) so I don't know how you could just bypass it. Perhaps there were different arrangements and the one in your car matches what peejay is talking about.
04-13-13, 05:16 PM
#4
Old [Sch|F]ool
I checked mine - they're both male so passthrough not possible without some wiring. Memory must be faulty, or maybe I was thinking of the idle stabilizer module that was used on some Rabbits, which used a similar connector.
(currently debugging a GTI)
(currently debugging a GTI)
04-13-13, 10:57 PM
#5
The models that didn't have the joystick had the same wiring, with a bypass loop instead. There was also a coin tray in the console piece instead of the joystick. Find a non-joystick car, and you'll have the pieces you need.
As for speakers: I tried a lot of aftermarket speakers with the stock head unit and amps, and I wasn't able to find an aftermarket speaker that sounded better than the OEMs. I know that speaker technology has advanced, but there's a lot to the matching of the speaker design to the enclosure (or in this case the lack of one).
I must have tried about 5 different aftermarket high-dollar speakers. I would install the aftermarket on one side, front and rear, while I left the OEM speakers on the other side. I had a couple of car stereo shop "gurus" scratching their heads because they couldn't believe how much better the OEM speakers sounded. Yes, the OEMs were more efficient, but the overall sound was better too.
This may be moot -- don't know if you can still get the OEM drivers.
As for speakers: I tried a lot of aftermarket speakers with the stock head unit and amps, and I wasn't able to find an aftermarket speaker that sounded better than the OEMs. I know that speaker technology has advanced, but there's a lot to the matching of the speaker design to the enclosure (or in this case the lack of one).
I must have tried about 5 different aftermarket high-dollar speakers. I would install the aftermarket on one side, front and rear, while I left the OEM speakers on the other side. I had a couple of car stereo shop "gurus" scratching their heads because they couldn't believe how much better the OEM speakers sounded. Yes, the OEMs were more efficient, but the overall sound was better too.
This may be moot -- don't know if you can still get the OEM drivers.
05-07-13, 08:52 PM
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tried plugging in brand new aftermarket speakers today and they did not work at all. seemed pretty straight forward, + to + and - to -, but they stayed completely silent. plugged the old OEMs back in and worked perfectly. not really sure what to do or why that didn't work.
also, found a few unused connectors and a "bag". i presume the unused connectors were for the power antenna and the bag is the rear washer bottle?
also, found a few unused connectors and a "bag". i presume the unused connectors were for the power antenna and the bag is the rear washer bottle?
05-07-13, 11:28 PM
#7
tried plugging in brand new aftermarket speakers today and they did not work at all. seemed pretty straight forward, + to + and - to -, but they stayed completely silent. plugged the old OEMs back in and worked perfectly. not really sure what to do or why that didn't work.
also, found a few unused connectors and a "bag". i presume the unused connectors were for the power antenna and the bag is the rear washer bottle?
also, found a few unused connectors and a "bag". i presume the unused connectors were for the power antenna and the bag is the rear washer bottle?
Yes, the bag is the rear washer. And two of those connectors are for the power antenna. And on both of my 85 FB's there is one connector back there that never connected to anything. I've no idea what it was for.
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05-08-13, 09:27 AM
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The amps can drive aftermarket speakers just fine. I am running Alpine SPS-410 in the front and I think Alpine SPS-610 in the rear but they could be SPS-510's. Pretty much no issues installing them. They fit under the factory grill covers. Car speakers are better today than in the early 80's but they are still 4 ohm. Find a set you like and put them in the car. If you still have the original speakers it will make a significant difference.
I have no idea how to bypass the joystick.
05-08-13, 10:55 AM
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i did in fact try to swap the polarity on either speaker and again got no sound. only thing i can think of is that i bought a pair of bum/dead/returned speakers that had been reboxed and returned. having worked in retail i almost expect that anymore. either way, i returned them and will revisit the matter at a later date. no desire to sit in my trunk and take it all apart again.
as was stated above, there is no simple bypass for the joystick. i took a spare one apart to see if i could make one and it's not really worth trying. there was a bypass loop made for cars with the trim package that had a coin holder there. i am going to see if thats orderable from mazda (unlikely). side note, if you have a spare or dead joystick, take it apart if you're bored. its a marvelous little contraption on the inside.
05-08-13, 11:03 AM
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05-10-13, 12:13 PM
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The joystick take only the "front" signal from the radio/deck and then splits it to "front" AND "rear" amps. To bypass the joystick, you'd need another din cable to exit the radio from the "rear" port, then you'd have two din cables coming from the radio and the front/rear fader will work properly. You'd still have to extend the cables to reach all the way to both amps...
05-10-13, 07:46 PM
#14
I used the SE head unit stock (AM/FM, Cassette, Eq.
there is a lot of old threads on audio for the 1st gen but I couldn't really find the answer I was looking for. I want to know if its possible to swap speakers with new aftermarkets or would the amps, etc Mazda has in the car not power them? I am fine with the stock headunit. Also wanted to eliminate the directional joystick by the power window switch. How difficult if at all possible is this? Just unplug it? Or will it interfere with the speakers?
Hooking them up is easy. Use good ( think, I think it was #12???) and fused wire for the 12volt power as well as to the ground. You hook up the 12volt line up to the battery's 12 volt terminal to minimize alternator hum. I also put some big capacitors where the amps are across the power terminals. If you put one amp in each side, you got space for days under the boxes.
The power on signal is already there for the old amps so all you need to do is hook it up to the amp power on terminal.
I then went to Frys and bought some great 6"x9" speakers and using 1" threaded spacers, mounted them in the rear and the fit almost perfectly even with the plastic cover on although I think I'm going to cut out the correct size. I used large, good quality speaker wire for all four speakers as well as good grommets where the wires passed through holes. The fronts, I forget but they were the same manufacturer as the rears but they were the correct size so all I had to do was run the wire and mount them. I ran all the speakers wires to the amps cleanly so now all that is left is the audio in from the head unit after it goes through the joystick.
If you can understand schematics, you can see which output goes to which amp and ensure you use good quality RCA connectors to the amps and be careful splicing in the new wires to the joystick, don't forget to use the shield mesh which goes to the ground mesh on the joystick side). Buy a great set of RCA to RCA stereo input cables. Using good quality RCA to RCA cables allows you to just cut them in the middle so one stereo cable gives you four connectors (already soldered in) for the RCA inputs to the amps. Using the joystick schematic, prepare to have the audio output wires from the joystick soldered vary carefully to the new wires you're using (two for each amp on one stereo cable)). Once both sides are hooked up, you need to find out which RCA plug goes to the correct amp as well as the correct left or right input. The easiest way is to hook them up, power up the system and by using the joystick, see which speaker, each corner of the joystick comes out of. It's possible to get lucky but I wouldn't count on it. If the joysticks got to the correct front and rear amps, you just need to swap RCA input plugs to the correct input on the amps. This should give you the correct setup. If after powering up and finding out that not only is the front and rear hooked up backwards, so is the left and right. Well, the solution is to swap the front and rear connectors to the amps and at the same time, swap the left/right inputs on both amps. This should give you the correct setup. Depending on your amps, they'll have a high/low input switch for the inputs as well as a level control so you can balance both amps so the center of the joystick puts the music in the center. I run the input level control as high as possible with out over-driving the amp inputs. Same goes with the input level switch.
Now you have a decent stereo but it's still only takes cassettes and radio. There's a write up on here on how someone figured out how to hook up an MP3 or CD player to the stock head unit's inputs. I just use a cassette input where the cassette goes into the head unit and has a 3.5mm jack to go into the MP3 or CD player. You should clean and align your head unit's head since it's almost 30 years old for this to work best.
I am very satisfied with mine and I didn't have to cut anything on the dash.
Last edited by rx7lives; 05-10-13 at 07:54 PM. Reason: ETA to remove gibberish
05-10-13, 10:53 PM
#15
love the braaaap
Adding to the comments that the aftermarket speakers sounded worse than the stock ones, I believe this could be correct for earlier systems. My 79 had the base system with only front speakers, which a previous owner replaced with 2 way Pioneer's. I noticed they sounded like crap, not to be completely unexpected from a Pioneer speaker but was noticeably worse than I had experienced in the past with similar speakers from that manufacturer. However I did notice something when playing around with my android phone with PowerAMP on it (music player that has an awesome 12 band equalizer), plugged into the aux jack I added in an inconspicuous place. It would seem the original 79 radio had the upper midrange greatly boosted, probably to help deal with the rather dead upper midrange of the single cone original speakers. I found I had to greatly reduce the 1-3K Hz bands by a lot to get them sounding good, and they did sound great after some fine tuning.
Moral of the story, don't expect aftermarket 2 ways to sound amazing on such an old system. Chances are it was tuned in some way to make 20+ year old speaker technology sound good. In the case of the clarion unit used on 79's, the upper midrange bands are boosted quite a lot to bridge the gap between the upper limits of what the main speaker cone was capable of and what the "whizzer" cone came in at. For those that don't know, a "whizzer" cone is added to the standard cone of a single cone speaker (1 way) to enhance the upper frequencies. Its a cheap way of making a speaker that has a full range sound without a tweeter.
Moral of the story, don't expect aftermarket 2 ways to sound amazing on such an old system. Chances are it was tuned in some way to make 20+ year old speaker technology sound good. In the case of the clarion unit used on 79's, the upper midrange bands are boosted quite a lot to bridge the gap between the upper limits of what the main speaker cone was capable of and what the "whizzer" cone came in at. For those that don't know, a "whizzer" cone is added to the standard cone of a single cone speaker (1 way) to enhance the upper frequencies. Its a cheap way of making a speaker that has a full range sound without a tweeter.
05-11-13, 10:22 AM
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I used the SE head unit stock (AM/FM, Cassette, Eq. The stock amps are pretty pathetic considering what's around today. Since some idiot stole my non running front amp, I just bought two over 100 Watt per channel amps from pick and pull. I think I paid $30 and they have four channels each which can be combined so you have higher power in stereo mode.
Hooking them up is easy. Use good ( think, I think it was #12???) and fused wire for the 12volt power as well as to the ground. You hook up the 12volt line up to the battery's 12 volt terminal to minimize alternator hum. I also put some big capacitors where the amps are across the power terminals. If you put one amp in each side, you got space for days under the boxes.
The power on signal is already there for the old amps so all you need to do is hook it up to the amp power on terminal.
I then went to Frys and bought some great 6"x9" speakers and using 1" threaded spacers, mounted them in the rear and the fit almost perfectly even with the plastic cover on although I think I'm going to cut out the correct size. I used large, good quality speaker wire for all four speakers as well as good grommets where the wires passed through holes. The fronts, I forget but they were the same manufacturer as the rears but they were the correct size so all I had to do was run the wire and mount them. I ran all the speakers wires to the amps cleanly so now all that is left is the audio in from the head unit after it goes through the joystick.
If you can understand schematics, you can see which output goes to which amp and ensure you use good quality RCA connectors to the amps and be careful splicing in the new wires to the joystick, don't forget to use the shield mesh which goes to the ground mesh on the joystick side). Buy a great set of RCA to RCA stereo input cables. Using good quality RCA to RCA cables allows you to just cut them in the middle so one stereo cable gives you four connectors (already soldered in) for the RCA inputs to the amps. Using the joystick schematic, prepare to have the audio output wires from the joystick soldered vary carefully to the new wires you're using (two for each amp on one stereo cable)). Once both sides are hooked up, you need to find out which RCA plug goes to the correct amp as well as the correct left or right input. The easiest way is to hook them up, power up the system and by using the joystick, see which speaker, each corner of the joystick comes out of. It's possible to get lucky but I wouldn't count on it. If the joysticks got to the correct front and rear amps, you just need to swap RCA input plugs to the correct input on the amps. This should give you the correct setup. If after powering up and finding out that not only is the front and rear hooked up backwards, so is the left and right. Well, the solution is to swap the front and rear connectors to the amps and at the same time, swap the left/right inputs on both amps. This should give you the correct setup. Depending on your amps, they'll have a high/low input switch for the inputs as well as a level control so you can balance both amps so the center of the joystick puts the music in the center. I run the input level control as high as possible with out over-driving the amp inputs. Same goes with the input level switch.
Now you have a decent stereo but it's still only takes cassettes and radio. There's a write up on here on how someone figured out how to hook up an MP3 or CD player to the stock head unit's inputs. I just use a cassette input where the cassette goes into the head unit and has a 3.5mm jack to go into the MP3 or CD player. You should clean and align your head unit's head since it's almost 30 years old for this to work best.
I am very satisfied with mine and I didn't have to cut anything on the dash.
Hooking them up is easy. Use good ( think, I think it was #12???) and fused wire for the 12volt power as well as to the ground. You hook up the 12volt line up to the battery's 12 volt terminal to minimize alternator hum. I also put some big capacitors where the amps are across the power terminals. If you put one amp in each side, you got space for days under the boxes.
The power on signal is already there for the old amps so all you need to do is hook it up to the amp power on terminal.
I then went to Frys and bought some great 6"x9" speakers and using 1" threaded spacers, mounted them in the rear and the fit almost perfectly even with the plastic cover on although I think I'm going to cut out the correct size. I used large, good quality speaker wire for all four speakers as well as good grommets where the wires passed through holes. The fronts, I forget but they were the same manufacturer as the rears but they were the correct size so all I had to do was run the wire and mount them. I ran all the speakers wires to the amps cleanly so now all that is left is the audio in from the head unit after it goes through the joystick.
If you can understand schematics, you can see which output goes to which amp and ensure you use good quality RCA connectors to the amps and be careful splicing in the new wires to the joystick, don't forget to use the shield mesh which goes to the ground mesh on the joystick side). Buy a great set of RCA to RCA stereo input cables. Using good quality RCA to RCA cables allows you to just cut them in the middle so one stereo cable gives you four connectors (already soldered in) for the RCA inputs to the amps. Using the joystick schematic, prepare to have the audio output wires from the joystick soldered vary carefully to the new wires you're using (two for each amp on one stereo cable)). Once both sides are hooked up, you need to find out which RCA plug goes to the correct amp as well as the correct left or right input. The easiest way is to hook them up, power up the system and by using the joystick, see which speaker, each corner of the joystick comes out of. It's possible to get lucky but I wouldn't count on it. If the joysticks got to the correct front and rear amps, you just need to swap RCA input plugs to the correct input on the amps. This should give you the correct setup. If after powering up and finding out that not only is the front and rear hooked up backwards, so is the left and right. Well, the solution is to swap the front and rear connectors to the amps and at the same time, swap the left/right inputs on both amps. This should give you the correct setup. Depending on your amps, they'll have a high/low input switch for the inputs as well as a level control so you can balance both amps so the center of the joystick puts the music in the center. I run the input level control as high as possible with out over-driving the amp inputs. Same goes with the input level switch.
Now you have a decent stereo but it's still only takes cassettes and radio. There's a write up on here on how someone figured out how to hook up an MP3 or CD player to the stock head unit's inputs. I just use a cassette input where the cassette goes into the head unit and has a 3.5mm jack to go into the MP3 or CD player. You should clean and align your head unit's head since it's almost 30 years old for this to work best.
I am very satisfied with mine and I didn't have to cut anything on the dash.
05-13-13, 04:11 PM
#17
Regarding the speakers not working - is this still an issue? If so - my bet would be that you're shorting out the + and - terminals on the new speakers. Make sure you have plenty of clearance around the terminals, both from each other, the mounting frame, and the back wall of the speaker pod.
If you have a joystick, the only way to bypass is to pull another 6-pin DIN line off the headunit and run straight from the head unit to the amps directly. You will lose functionality of the factory 9-band EQ for the rear channel, as this only inputs/outputs a single channel.
This is why there is the joystick on the premium model - to get proper 4-channel fader control out of a 2-channel equalized mix.
If you have a joystick, the only way to bypass is to pull another 6-pin DIN line off the headunit and run straight from the head unit to the amps directly. You will lose functionality of the factory 9-band EQ for the rear channel, as this only inputs/outputs a single channel.
This is why there is the joystick on the premium model - to get proper 4-channel fader control out of a 2-channel equalized mix.
05-14-13, 10:24 AM
#18
Full Member
...
...
A coin tray - really? Mine has a clock. I'd love to find a coin holder for mine. My aftermarket radio already has a clock.
A couple years ago I found an '82 at the Pull-A-Part and scored a "new" surround to modify so I could install an aftermarket stereo and still keep the factory dash in a box for someday when the collectors value of the car catches up.
A coin tray - really? Mine has a clock. I'd love to find a coin holder for mine. My aftermarket radio already has a clock.
A couple years ago I found an '82 at the Pull-A-Part and scored a "new" surround to modify so I could install an aftermarket stereo and still keep the factory dash in a box for someday when the collectors value of the car catches up.
05-14-13, 12:13 PM
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Regarding the speakers not working - is this still an issue? If so - my bet would be that you're shorting out the + and - terminals on the new speakers. Make sure you have plenty of clearance around the terminals, both from each other, the mounting frame, and the back wall of the speaker pod.
If you have a joystick, the only way to bypass is to pull another 6-pin DIN line off the headunit and run straight from the head unit to the amps directly. You will lose functionality of the factory 9-band EQ for the rear channel, as this only inputs/outputs a single channel.
This is why there is the joystick on the premium model - to get proper 4-channel fader control out of a 2-channel equalized mix.
If you have a joystick, the only way to bypass is to pull another 6-pin DIN line off the headunit and run straight from the head unit to the amps directly. You will lose functionality of the factory 9-band EQ for the rear channel, as this only inputs/outputs a single channel.
This is why there is the joystick on the premium model - to get proper 4-channel fader control out of a 2-channel equalized mix.
05-14-13, 01:21 PM
#20
The graphic EQ receives one 8 pin DIN from the tape deck - which is the main source and power of the stack - and sends one 8 pin DIN out to the tuner - which is the main output, balance, fader (when no joystick) and master volume for the stack.
As you see there's only a single output passthrough (+ and -) on the DIN going to the tuner.
The way I got around this in my install is by fabbing up a 6-pin DIN-to-RCA (red white) and using an aftermarket amp. The 6-pin din replaces OEM output that would normally go to the joystick. You can get a 4 channel amp for cheap that will far outperform the OEM amps. The amp will either divide the EQ'd signal 4-ways, or you can get Y splitters and split the stereo signal to the front / rear inputs on the amp.
There's a bit more to it than this, but thats the basics. If you want to know what more there is to it, i can ramble on a bit more if you like
05-14-13, 03:18 PM
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As always, thanks for the in depth info. I wanted to retain stock amps and speakers for now anyway. I'd have no problem making the DIN-RCA adapters and installing new speaks and aftermarket amp, but I'd rather not(I don't have anywhere to work on my car where I live). Wouldn't it be easier to somehow take the one output from eq that is on the incoming DIN to radio and split it to two outputs? But then how to wire the second signal to be output thru the rear out? Maybe this is where some of the "not used" pins[in the DINs] can do?
05-14-13, 05:18 PM
#22
As always, thanks for the in depth info. I wanted to retain stock amps and speakers for now anyway. I'd have no problem making the DIN-RCA adapters and installing new speaks and aftermarket amp, but I'd rather not(I don't have anywhere to work on my car where I live). Wouldn't it be easier to somehow take the one output from eq that is on the incoming DIN to radio and split it to two outputs? But then how to wire the second signal to be output thru the rear out? Maybe this is where some of the "not used" pins[in the DINs] can do?
Truth be told I haven't actually tried running both front and rear amp outputs from the tuner - i must admit i've made an assumption as to the EQ processing only the front channel, as thats how the factory configuration was - if EQ then joystick. If No EQ, then 2 outputs off of tuner directly to amps.
I have not actually tested to see if both outputs from the headunit are EQ'd. I suppose I could try swapping from one output to the other and see....
The more I think about it the more it makes sense to have the tuner's balance / fader split the signal to 4 channel output. But then why the joystick. However just because it makes sense to me doesnt mean thats how Clarion engineers decided to roll 30 years ago.
Edit: as you can see in attached the EQ seems to be an option on both the basic as well as the digital tuners...
05-15-13, 01:29 PM
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I wish I had a benchtop setup to test all this stuff...I always thought the joystick's only REAL purpose was to be able to "instantaneously" adjust stereo imaging with one movement, as opposed to fiddling with two tiny ***** on the radio itself. I seem to remember a short "fad" in the early '80's of really "premium" sound systems (esp. home) having a joystick to simultaneously adjust:fader, balance, stereo imaging all at once...
05-22-13, 10:49 AM
#25
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For what it is worth, soza127 posted this for me back when I changed out the head unit and wanted to use the RCA output of the new deck with the factory amps.
The GSL-SE Stereo System
The page is a little old as it mentions Radio Shack offering the DIN connectors - they no longer offer them. If you go this route you'll need to get a set from a junk yard or buy them from a real electronics parts store. Personally I don't like the idea of cutting any of the factory wiring and making splices because that makes it difficult to put it back the way it was. Also, IMHO someday these cars will be worth more in the real market than they are in our heads and some collectors will want to restore to original condition.
The GSL-SE Stereo System
The page is a little old as it mentions Radio Shack offering the DIN connectors - they no longer offer them. If you go this route you'll need to get a set from a junk yard or buy them from a real electronics parts store. Personally I don't like the idea of cutting any of the factory wiring and making splices because that makes it difficult to put it back the way it was. Also, IMHO someday these cars will be worth more in the real market than they are in our heads and some collectors will want to restore to original condition.