rbf41182gt

Hey guys,

I have a 79 12a, with about 135,000 mi, no rebuild. It smokes HEAVILY for the first 3-5 minutes when you first start it, but after that, it barly smokes at all until you floor it, (around 5000 rpm) in which case it lets out a big puff of smoke, and keeps smoking for about 5 seconds more. Why does this happen? I was thinking it has something to do with the secondaries opening up, or too much oil from the omp. Does anyone have a clue?

Thanks

12a79

i dont think so rotary engines are just smokers . but if u rev up high off a gear its most likely to smoke at high rpms. if ur running the car there is less chance of it doing this also try to work through ur exhaust it might help a little

saltyslug

sounds like something is going south on that engine, maybe seal, apex or oil. I don't think exhaust will do that, are rotarys are not "just smokers".

rbf41182gt

well, if something is going south, that's fine. I'm gonna be rebuilding it this winter/ spring, so I'll see when I crack it open.

K-Tune

iTrader: (26)

oil control seal.


it isnt THAT bad...you get higher compression and when you take the motor apart its nice and shiney

rbf41182gt

ok, where exactly are the oil control seal(s)? Are they on the rotor's?

rookie117

iTrader: (1)

its probably good that you are going to rebuild it... my 12a was doing that and soon after my corner seal went... does it do it after it warms up all the way?

rbf41182gt

yeah. The car smokes for like 4 minutes, so i leave it alone until the choke's all the way in. It idles perfectly, not a hiccup or anything. I only go up above 5k once in awhile, and the engine has always been warm for at least 10 minutes.

Rotor13B

You might want to check the acv valve, My SA would smoke like that on randomly on startup and it turned out that coolant was leaking past causing huge billows of smoke. The intake o-rings are another thing to check out as they can go bad and do the same thing.

Kill No Cone

iTrader: (6)

We call it morning blues...
I have it on the engine in my race car. It has never run better, but smokes up the track on the high revs. After a new set of oil control rings, all will be well.

OmsOrg

are you losing oil level to indicate excessive oil burning? If not, it might be just running too rich .

rbf41182gt

i losing a little bit of the oil to burning, but most of it is just leaking out. I get big puddles on the ground

so where exactly are the oil control rings?

OmsOrg

Oil control rings are internal. It won't cause it to leak outside. It'll cause it to leak inside.
Check your oil cooler tower. Those commonly leak. But the engine automatically injects a small amount of oil. Some folks take out the oil injection system and use TCW3 premix.

Kill No Cone

iTrader: (6)

Morning Blues...
If the car smokes when it starts up and over 5k it is most likely the oil control rings. When the oil control rings get worn the let a small amount of oil pass by them, which is burnt and causes the Morning Blues. When you shut the car off you keep a little oil presure for a moment so a little oil passes then. And, when you start up things are a little loose so a bit of oil passes then. When the engine warms up a bit the seals swell and less oil passes, so the smoke goes away. When you rev it over 5k the seals just cannot keep up, so some oil passes then as well. This is all an internal process and has nothing to do with the external leaking you have mentioned or the omp, never the less it is what happens when the engine wear. The way to fix the problem is to replace the oil control rings which is done when you rebuild the engine.
Best of luck to you!
JEB

rbf41182gt

thanks!

i understand everything now

Kentetsu

Do a search for Lucas heavy duty oil stabilizer. Had a similar situation and had excellent results....

Hyper4mance2k

iTrader: (40)

it's 100% an oil control seal. You've got about 5000 miles left on it before it blows.

rbf41182gt

what happens when it blows?

just curious...

Kentetsu

Okay, as long as you have good oil pressure you're not going to blow your motor. Make sure that the oil level is not over the full mark, if its too full it will smoke a lot more. You can try draining two quarts of oil out, then replace it with the Lucas. This helped mine. Nothing is a complete replacement for an engine rebuild, but you might be able to delay it as long as necessary with the Lucas.

Kill No Cone

iTrader: (6)

The engine really will not "blow" due to oil control rings. As they get worse your car will smoke more.

Having said that, worn oil control rings are a sign of a worn engine. Another worn part may go away and that is what would cause your engine to "blow". Often it is an apex seal and then you lose power and compresion. Although if the broken parts get lodged in the internal moveing parts of the engine it gets more exciting!

rbf41182gt

just for some clarification (see pic)

which seal is which? There apears to be two. One is spring loaded (oil control?) and the other looks like rubber or something (it was a gooey mess in the rotor pictured)

thanks

Kill No Cone

iTrader: (6)

There are two oil contril rings in those two groves. If they are silver (worn) on more than about 2/3 of the top surface then they are shot. They also have a seal that fits inside of them. That can turn into a gooey mess with some soulvents. Sometimes folks will try to save money in a rebuild and they do not change the control rings or maybe the seals. When you have it open, spend the money and buy both.

Best of luck to you!