RxTodd

Hey group, I recently dropped a replacement engine, 13b, in my '85 se. Before I put it in, I could turn it with a 19mm and arm strength. After installed I put a little marvel mystery oil in the leading spark plug whole, turned maybe half a cycle, now it won't budge. What have I done and how do I free it up? The engine only has 77k miles, never overheated but sat for 8-9 years.

peejay

Turn it backwards with the plugs out. It's either carbon locked or you hydrolocked it, either way, gentle backwards rotation should assist.


An aside. If you stripped out the threads for the slave cylinder, and don't feel bad if you did because this is common!, if you use a longer bolt in an effort to get to some undamaged threads, if it is TOO long it can lock against the flywheel and keep the engine from rotating.

RxTodd

Thank you for the input. So when I try to reverse rotation, the crank bolt just loosens. Is there any way to keep this from happening? Also, I haven't even reached the point of installing the slave cylinder. I literally just got the engine and tranny secured when I had the bright idea of turning it. I rushed it I think.

peejay

You shouldn't use enough force to loosen the front pulley bolt. If you did loosen the pulley bolt, there is a small chance that the front of the motor has to come apart to reset the thrust bearing stack. Might be okay if nothing moved, definitely okay if you meant that the bolt started to loosen instead of turning anything.

When you were turning it before, was the transmission attached? I helped a tried pull the engine from his wife's truck after it "locked up", and it turned freely once we got it removed from the transmission. A bolt somehow got in the bellhousing and wedged the engine from turning.

RxTodd

The transmission was attached but was in neutral. The engine I put in had the transmission attached to it. I removed the old engine and transmission together as well. I did loosen the pulley but did not see the front separate. I wasn't really looking for that to be honest. This is all foreign to me as my prior rotary engine wrench turning consisted of tune-ups and oil changes.

elwood

iTrader: (1)

I know this is the least of your worries right now, but when you get to the slave cylinder . . . this is a good place to use studs instead of the original bolts.

RxTodd

Thanks for the advice, so in an effort to turn the engine in the opposite direction to free it, I bought a pipe wrench, chain grab, to wrap around the pulley and try to turn it. Haven't had time to give it a go but will post my results as soon as I do.

peejay

If it takes that much force to rotate, you will break something. You should never use more than about 5-10 ft-lb to turn the engine by hand. Really, you should be able to rotate the engine with your fingers on the alternator fan.

RxTodd

Yeah, when I first acquired the engine, I was able to turn it easily. When I put it in the car, all I did was put some mmo in the leading plug holes, I tried putting some in the trailing holes too but it ran out. Attempted to rotate clockwise, it turned about a half cycle then froze on me. I'm worried, seriously.

mazdaverx713b

iTrader: (91)

Were the spark plugs out of the engine when you went to turn it over by hand? How much MMO did you put into the engine?

RxTodd

No, the plugs were in but only hand snugged. I didn't measure the mmo, but no more than a cap full in each hole. In the event that I am able to free it, what the heck do I do next? I'm sorry to be the new guy asking all these rescue questions but l really don't know what to do.

KansasCityREPU

iTrader: (9)

I'd remove all the plugs first. Might even remove the exhaust manifold. The try to turn. Like said above, don't go all monkey on it.

RxTodd

Don't worry, I'll take it extra gently.

RxTodd

First off, THANK YOU all for your input,, knowledge and assistance!

Update to my issue... the engine is free and turns now but it seems like it won't turn a complete revolution. At this point my whole project is at a stand still. My initial plan was to simply put this replacement engine in my car, follow the "first start" guidelines, and smile, alot. Now I'm stumped because I simply do not know where to go from here. Should I just accept that I must rebuild an engine with only 77k miles on it?

A little history behind it all, I purchased this car with a cooked engine. The previous owner said his daughter was driving it and it overheated. It too was seized, the old engine, but I bought it because I had a replacement engine and the body is solid with no accidents and minimal rust.

mazdaverx713b

iTrader: (91)

Its important imo, to have the spark plugs put when turning the engine. This helps to release any pressure buildup that would be a result of a potential hydrolock after installing mmo or automatic transmission fluid.

Can the engine be rotated back and forth? I would try working it back and forth from lock to lock with the plugs out. See whats coming out of the spark plug holes if the engine is making compression on the rotation. You may have freed up carbon and its not fully broken down. You could have some more trapped and its binding the engine due to puddling. Worst case is you have a seal thats dislodged. Unlikely but its a possibility. My money is on carbon lock due to you saying how long it sat. I would just keep trying to work it back back and forth. I've used WD40 in small amounts on engines that have sat for some time as well. I put it in just like I do mmo, right in the plug holes. Not a ton, but it has helped me in the past.

RxTodd

The engine will move back and forth, I'll do that and see how things go. I'll try to go a little farther as I do this process. I'll tell you now though, if I have to rebuild, I'll be searching for a step by step tutorial because again, this is not the type of technology I'm accustomed to.

mazdaverx713b

iTrader: (91)

Keep us updated on what you find. Atkins Rotary has a step by step rebuild of the 13B on DVD available. It can be very helpful!

RxTodd

Thank you and I'll certainly post my progress or lack there of. I'm pretty handy with tools but very skeptical about tackling a rebuild on this engine. I'm hoping that I won't have to do it at all.

RxTodd

So in turning the engine back and forth, clockwise, there seems to be a hard stopping point. I understand that it will be resistance on a compression stroke but this seems like I'm hitting something. Adding torque just seems to stick the engine in place. Does this sound like a familiar symptom or you all baffled as I am? It's not making logical sense to me that it won't turn even with the plugs out.

rxtasy3

iTrader: (2)

if i understand this right, u could rotate the e-shaft full revolutions before the trans was put on it. and now it wont? did u have to install clutch/pressure plate to the engine?

RxTodd

Not quite, the transmission was attached to the engine. I was able to turn the motor before I installed it. Now it's free but I can't quite turn it all the way without muscling it.

KansasCityREPU

iTrader: (9)

I'd remove the exhaust manifold and inspect. My not be a bad idea to remove the trans or at least the two inspaction plates and have a look.

mazdaverx713b

iTrader: (91)

Crazy question, but when you installed the engine, did you remove the upper intake manifold and dynamic chamber? My concern being that something like a nut, bolt or socket fell down into the lower intake manifold and is being wedged between a rotor and a housing. I will install the SE engines with the upper intake manifold and dynamic chamber removed, but I use wide masking tape and I seal the intake ports on the lower manifold before starting any installation. I'm just throwing that out there as a worst case option if in fact the upper intake manifold and dynamic chamber were removed before installing the engine.

lwrobins

Are you sure the thrust bearing is still in place after loosening the front E shaft bolt? the standard bearing is quite thin...

7aull

iTrader: (2)

Of the THREE DVD tutorials I am aware of: Atkins, Mazdatrix and a nice set (of 3!) from New Zealand, of which I bought ALL for my rebuild, the Mazdatrix one was the best detailed and informative for the $$ ($30 at the time). Atkins was OK...

Best of Luck if you need to try it. Like you my total experience previously was tune-ups and oil changes, but I pulled it off (now running with new owner). You will need to invest in some specialty tools: engine stand apter, pressure-testing kit (to be sure engine is sealed up correctly: avai from Pinappleracing.com), etc. but nothing too $$, esp compared to having a shop do the build.

Stu A
80GS
AZ