Whisper

Am I missing something? I removed the pan bolts but the pan won't separate from the engine. Do I need to pry it off or something? I feel like prying it would bend the flange...

How is it done?

mazdamikes

iTrader: (8)

Just pry it off using a putty knife, it will take a little bit to get it to come loose. You won't bend the flange.

Whisper

Alright, I'll try that.

Whisper

Wow, finally got it off. Took over an hour. Couldn't wedge anything in there. Pry bar? Forget it. No room to swing a mallet, either, other than from bellhousing corners. Had to get a thin screwdriver and hammer that in, and even then it was tough. That thing was on there good. I bet I could take the bolts out and drive around like that and it would never come off.

Keith13b

iTrader: (6)

Sounds like who ever installed the pan did it right the first time! Make sure you do just as good of a job on the re-install!

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

I'd have pulled the engine because it's easier to get the pan off. I get to remove a GSL-SE pan very soon and I'm definitely pulling the engine because I did a very good job sealing it the first time.

Whisper

Pulling the engine sounds like overkill to me, considering all the things I have to unhook, unplug, and all that.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

plus it really blows to be under the drippy engine...

Whisper

Well, you're supposed to drain the oil before you pull the pan.

teddyrx2

iTrader: (33)

you dont' have to pull the damn motor...you can just lift it a little for clearance...

Use ultra gray silicone and I promise you, you will not have a leak!!!

Whisper

I was told to use black RTV, but I think proper surface prep is more key to preventing a leak than the color of silicone. I'm using paint thinner to degrease the mating surfaces. Is that good enough, or should I use something else?

mazdaverx713b

iTrader: (91)

rtv black will work. mazda uses a sealer from the factory that is pretty much identical to rtv grey. its been debated whether to use a gasket or not when resealing the pan. i always do but thats just me and i like ot have that piece of mind. if i pull an engine to replace the oil pan gasket, i'd be replacing the front cover gasket, intake manifold gasket, and exhaust manifold gasket just to be thorough.. but of course pulling the engine is debateable but i would prefer to have pulled it..its really only an hour and a half job to get it out and you have lots of working room then.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Can paint thinner remove the silicone oil residue from the mating surfaces? I use a strong brake cleaner that instantly cuts through sharpie marker and eats paint quickly. It, however, is just barely strong enough to remove most of the left over residue.

I employ a three phase attack. First I degrease the pan with a common engine degereaser like gunk brand engine brite or pyroil engine degreaser; this will remove the oil inside and out so it can be handled for the next phase. Then, after a quick drying, I use a wire wheel on a bench grinder with a fine wire wheel (not a coarse one, as that will take off the factory paint, which is unnecessary).

Lots of room temperature vulcanized rubber bits all over inside the pan after wire wheeling (and all over me) so another quick degreasing cleans them off better than compressed air or a rag. The degreaser also cleans off most of the silicone residue on the mating surface. Another quick dry.

Now inspection time. If any paint is amiss, it's fixed with a little engine paint on the outside of the pan as inside is not necessary for rust prevention (duh, it's covered in oil under normal conditions).

Final phase is to clean the mating surface with strong brake cleaner and a clean rag as this does clean up what degreasing missed (and any paint overspray while I'm at it but I must work quickly to protect the factory paint).

At this point the mating surface of the pan is ready but I'm only half way done. There are still oil pan bolts to clean up and the engine mating surface still needs a good cleaning. I remove the cured RTV with a decent (new, sharp) box cutter blade as I find typical gasket scrapers aren't up to the task. After all the RTV residue is gone, you guessed it, the brake cleaner and a rag come next.

When my OCD is satisfied that the engine mating surface is as clean as I can make it be, and my shoulders are screaming at me (I'm doing this with the engine suspended on the crane, which I suppose would be similar for you greasy guys who leave the engine installed for this job), I then can finally goop both the pan surface and the engine surface with fresh RTV and start bolting it up.

A little RTV oozing out along the entire edge is a good thing. Probably a good idea to let it cure fully before any oil goes in.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

Jeff, that's the best OCD oil pan gasket renew I've read. I'd like to add a couple things. Both the bolts and bolt holes need to be chased with a tap and die for proper torquing. Use a little Permatex Blue for a thread sealer. Make a full circle around the bolt holes, this way there won't be any gaps in the bead. And lastly, a trick from Judge Ito. When not using a gasket, randomly dimple both mating surfaces with a sharpened/hardened center punch. This will give more 'grip' for the sealer to adhere to.

Whisper, don't use a screw driver. It's too easy to bend and gouge the mating surfaces with one. Use a 1" wide stiff back putty knife that's been sharpened.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

I don't do any of that stuff. No need. Only occasionally chase the threads if they're damaged by a previous ham-fisted mechanic. Never dimpled. Never used locktite. Seems unnecessary on a 1st gen where the motor mounts on the front cover, not the rear plate.

I do wire wheel the bolts to get any RTV or anything else off them. Then I clean the wire wheel with brake cleaner or anyhting else that will take off the silicone residue, so I can then wire wheel the heads if they're dirty or rusty, before paint. A paint stripper works well at this point of they bolts heads were previously painted and you'd like to change the color or redo the paint on them. Paint stripper is also pretty strong and can remove most of the silicone residue.

I do have a 1.5" putty knife, but with a standard dull edge. Maybe I'll sharpen it? Something to think about. Thanks.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

but the rotors and eshaft hold almost a whole quart! it takes years for that to drain

Whisper

I donno, I have no dripping anywhere. I wiped off most of the oil after removing the pan and it's fine.

I'll chase the surfaces with brake cleaner and make sure it's as grease free as possible. I probably won't dimple the metal with a punch or anything of the sort. AFAIK if the metal is clean RTV will stick to it very well even without a "grippy" surface.

So if I'm not using a gasket, should I put RTV on both mating surfaces or just on the pan? Seems like just the pan should be enough.

84stock

iTrader: (5)

One other thing that will make life sooooooo easy. Get 4-6 longer bolts and nuts of the same thread as the oil pan bolts. Cut the heads off (or just buy threaded rod and cut to size) and stud 4-6 oil pan bolt holes. This will make lining up the pan a dream!! Next time, I will stud them all, then I don't have to worry about getting silicone in the bolt holes.

I did this to my valve covers with my big block (20+ years ago), made life much easier when I had to adjust the solid lifters.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

You only need to use the silicone on the pan when not using a gasket. Coating both sides will have sealant coming out everywhere.

Whisper

Hmm, that sounds like a decent idea. Guide studs are great for many things. Made tanny install a breeze.

Whisper

Should I let it fully cure before filling it up?

rxtasy3

iTrader: (2)

^directions on the package might give u some idea how long.

Whisper

No. Just says it dries in 1 hour and fully cures in 24. Doesn't say when it's good enough to return to service.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

I'd wait the full 24 hours just to be safe.

Whisper

Aight.